Trespassing...

With regards to my original post in this thread I was attempting to point out that sometimes trespassing isnt always a simple mistake on the trespassers part.

In which I used my 6' tall stockade fence as an example of someone having to exert "extraordinary effort" in order to trespass on my property, therefore I could only reasonably conclude that a trespasser under those conditions to be a "dangerous threat" if I stumbled across them.

Just to clarify one more time - this doesnt mean I would automatically start shooting, it simply means if I catch someone trespassing in my backyard - they are going to be treated as a "dangerous threat".

Of course these are seperate issues from the home invasion, but I posted that reply becouse I thought it demonstrated the fact I am not some trigger happy retard looking for an excuse to plug someone becouse they are in/on my property.
 
With regards to my original post in this thread I was attempting to point out that sometimes trespassing isnt always a simple mistake on the trespassers part.
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Sorry if I misunderstood, but I thought your post was validating the first post that talked about the idea that most gun owners allegedly think it's OK to shoot trespassers....Also, in this state, it's not "trespassing" unless the property is posted, so your 6 foot stockade fence and locked gates wouldn't necessarily mean that someone in your backyard was fulfilling all of the elements of the misdemeanor crime of trespassing. In this state anyway.


Bottom line: no lawsuit, I felt safe and in control, I prolly was lucky my friend tilted the odds in my favor enough to wake a whacko up enough to back off the muzzle of a loaded , and ready to go off in a fraction of a second more .44!!!! :D No lawsuits, no cops , no mess! If this would have happened inside my house I think it would have had a different outcome if I couldn't have retreated like I did outside! :)
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You were going to shoot a crazy bum outside your house who you had no reason to believe was armed?? There was just a State Trooper here who shot a crazy bum. I think he's gonna be in some trouble....The usual community people were at the guy's funeral talking about what a great guy he was. Lemme see if I can find the article...

http://www.freep.com/news/locway/magoo27e_20050427.htm
 
Whether or not a yard enclosed by a fence and locked gate is considered part of your "castle domaine," and can be defended as such, is up to the individual laws of your state.

I pointed a revolver at a drunk who was in my backyard (I also have a 6-foot fence and locked gate) several years ago.

He was in my yard taking a whizz, and when I opened the sliding glass door and told him to stop pissing on my azaleas, he turned and charged at me. He stopped dead in his tracks, and then turned and scrambled back over the fence.
 
Slightly off topic.

Wow! The guy had aunt that was an attonery and was still homeless. Why did all these "friends and faimly" at his funeral not help this poor man be less homeless before he was shot?!?! :mad: Nasty situation for all involved.

Years ago, when I lived in Las Vegas, I realized that some form of martial art was needed to supplement firearms. Lots of people become "mentaly impared" for one reason or another and get out of hand. Had I shot every homeless or intoxicated person who approached me "in an aggressive manner" Vegas would have been much more sparse. :(
 
Lots of those wackos prefer to be homeless and don't want to avail themselves of the social safety net, such that it is, that the rest of us pay for.
 
The laws are constantly being tested, up here there is a pastor who was just cleared on 2nd degree murder charges for offing a couple guys who were burgling his church/home. Big uproar, espcially because one of them was apparently shot several times, with some wounds obviously attained while he was in retreat.

Anyhow the pastor was aquitted of criminal charges, but it is going to be headed to the civil court, where his chances won't be as good. No one seems to care that the guys he shot were responsible for a huge series of break-ins in the Mat-su valley (large enough that the break-ins were newsworthy before the shooting incident).

The law needs to be clearer in most places, in my CCW class, it was explained to me that a person can infact walk into your house, and if he is not being a direct threat to you, say he shoots you dog, ie. angry neighbor, you can't shoot him. It is also a bit foggy, as it only has to appear that there is a threat, i.e. if that drunk had tried to break in so he could crash on the floor, but you didn't know that. There was a drunk teen 10 years or so back that broke into the wrong house to sleep a party it off. He got kilt, but it was ruled justified.

Personally, I believe that if a person enters another's property intending ill will, he has forfeited his life. But if it ever happens that you have to defend yourself, make sure all the "i"'s are dotted, and "t"'s are crossed, because that person you shot is going to become an instant martyr.
 
espcially because one of them was apparently shot several times, with some wounds obviously attained while he was in retreat.
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I think the pastor was fortunate, especially if the BG's were unarmed.

To me that a person can infact walk into your house, and if he is not being a direct threat to you, say he shoots you dog
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If he shoots my dog, then he has come in armed, and presents a serious danger to anyone in my house. If he ignores me, he won't get a chance to shoot my pup.
 
That's one of the things that I will be going on the defensive of and not the passive side, the "the crook was unarmed and didn't threaten you so you can't shoot them while they are robbing you blind". Some states actually has such insane laws such as this, I go with the Bible on this one.

In most states, they have the castle docterine(sp) where if someone comes into your home uninvited then they are fair game. Now, being the the yard you don't have this option of shoot first and ask later.

When I fire my rifles/pistols outside I have to go through the fence and check the area. Some of the neighborhood kids go "exploring" and the little creek behind the house is like a magnet to them. So I go down to ensure that no one is there (backstop should stop the rounds but I'm not taking any chances).

And when the kids go exploring sometimes they come up into the back yard to pick some green apples to feed to the horses in the field. I know that they aren't up to ill intent and I'm actually happy that they are taking the apples (I don't have to rake them up later).

Now, if I see any of my neighbors across the street in my back yard, I will open carry out and tell them to get the heck off my land. If they refuse then I will hold them for criminal trespass while calling the LEO's (cell phone). If they move toward me I will fire. Why? Not because I wish to but they are thieves and they are druggies (they are always high on something) and I will not give them the benefit of the doubt.

All of this is a case by case basis. You size up the situation and then act on what you see. If you feel that armed conflict is needed (guy/gal has an axe, gun, chainsaw and he/she's eyeing you like you're his/her next meal) then do it, if you think that a stearn "get out of my yard" is warrented then do that, if it's a "boy, I hope they pick up more apples then that for the horses" deal then just go back to the la-z-boy :).

Wayne
 
"You were going to shoot a crazy bum outside your house who you had no reason to believe was armed??"
No that's YOUR idea! I was close to shooting a tresspasser(property posted and fenced) that exhibited bizarre behavior and who advanced on me( an senior citizen) while I repeatedly retreated and loudly objected to his assault on me ( not battery but the definition of assault) , ignored my -plain and resonable commands and put me in fear of my life.
What in the blue blazes weapon could have this guy had? Shaking hands wth someone who doesn't want to is the oldest sucker trick in the book . You, sir are the kind of trusting simpleton that makes a good statistic! :barf:
 
Trespassing...
Seems that the general firearm owning public believes that shooting someone who is trespassing is a justified act.

Is this true? If someone is on your land, trespassing, but does not brandish a gun, are you justified in your actions?

Any legalities in firing "warning" shots?
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This is what happens when the original poster is not specific enough in his original comments...

I wasn't talking about someone who has simply wondered onto your property, but those that are committing an "act", such as stealing...
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Jelly, you were plenty specific in your original comments. You just asked the wrong question. Your clarification to be more specific about trespassing to say the person was doing something else like stealing does not make sense. These are two completely different legal concepts. So this thread is apparently NOT about trespassing?

Your clarification reminds me of a confrontation I saw on a live talk show between the mother of a dead 12 year old boy and the man who shot the boy. There were a couple of relatives with the upset mother and the wife and two kids of the husband. At the time of the broadcast, the man had been cleared of any wrongdoing and apparently the mother's attempts at a civil suit had failed.

The upset mother noted how the man had shot and killed her unarmed baby and that his use of lethal force was completely unjustified. She kept saying that death was not the penalty for trespassing. Of course, she was right in this regard, but the man did not shoot her son for trespassing. She never seemed to be able to grasp this notion.

As it turned out, the dead son was with several other kids who broke into the man's house as a part of a gang initiation. The man heard the noise of the invasion, grabbed his pistol, and confronted a group of boys in his hallway that connected the bedroom area to the rest of the house. The man yelled at the boys several times while pointing his gun at them. Specifically, he yelled at them to stay back, but the boys continued to approach and he opened fire.

Even by the end of the show, the mother of the dead boy kept saying the penalty for trespassing was not death. Also by the end of the show, the man kept saying that at the time, all he knew is that there were many people in his home that did not belong there and who aggressively advanced on his position after being warned several times. He said that he had to shoot because he was not only in fear for his life, but in fear for the lives of his family. When he fired, he was between the intruders and his family.

Was the boy trespassing? As in Jelly's clarification, the answer is YES. But also as in Jelly's clarification, the trespasing was simply a minor component of a situation where other and more serious things were occurring.
 
"Right then the guy begins retreating and suddenly his reddened crazed eyes focus on that big .44 muzzle with the cylinder that was beginning it's rotation as he kept coming! He starts saying with his hand out" I was at the party last night Bro, I just wanted to thank you"


"Now, if I see any of my neighbors across the street in my back yard, I will open carry out and tell them to get the heck off my land. If they refuse then I will hold them for criminal trespass while calling the LEO's (cell phone). If they move toward me I will fire."



"I was close to shooting a tresspasser(property posted and fenced) that exhibited bizarre behavior and who advanced on me( an senior citizen) while I repeatedly retreated and loudly objected to his assault on me ( not battery but the definition of assault) , ignored my -plain and resonable commands and put me in fear of my life. "



"I pointed a revolver at a drunk who was in my backyard (I also have a 6-foot fence and locked gate) several years ago.


"He was in my yard taking a whizz, and when I opened the sliding glass door and told him to stop pissing on my azaleas, he turned and charged at me. He stopped dead in his tracks, and then turned and scrambled back over the fence."


No, not all gun owners think it is exceptable to shoot people trespassing on their property when they cannot articulate an immediate threat to their life, but obviously some do. At first I thought this was a crazy topic, but I guess not.
 
eka,

Some may brandish a weapon a bit quicker than I would.

Several do think it's prudent to be ready to shoot someone, if it comes to that.

Your examples belie your conclusion. Not one shot the trespasser.
 
Jelly . . .

"Seems that the general firearm owning public believes that shooting someone who is trespassing is a justified act."
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1) I do not agree.

2) I would like you to document your assertion (numbers, data, sources) beyond "visceral feel".

I suspect most firearms owners would NOT concur and I respectfully suggest this is precisely the type of comment that influential "antis" would like to use in the media or political arenas.
 
Hey eka,

Before you condemn me for my response, maybe you should come on over to my house and meet the neighbors across the street. Please don't judge a response until you have the full picture. So, just for you:

Donald Cobb: Served a total of about 20 years in prison. What did this "model citizen" do? 3 counts ARMED theft, 2 counts FELONY assault, 2 counts possession with the intent to distribute. After all the felonies we just have the little stuff like assault, terrorist threats (including myself) and drug possesion.

Now we have his darling girlfriend:

Katie: 5 years in prison: Felon in possesion of a firearm while making terrorist threats. Her felony stemed from boucing checks and assault. She got parole for that.

Multitude of doped up druggy homeless, with rap sheets (I've seen the LEO's come over and arrest one or two every week and now they are in about the fourth or fifth cycle with only 2 or 3 still in jail).

Now, with this little tidebit of knowledge, do you still feel that I was wrong in what I wrote? I did at least give them the benefit to leave the property and would only fire if they moved toward me. You see, with a man who has a history of violent assault, and the girlfriend with a history of assault, I felt that my response was justified.

Wayne

*edited to add that all information was obtained from the OSP under the FOIA.
 
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What's crazy about this topic is how some people feel more reserved when it comes to brandishing their firearm (let alone USING it)...and how others feel they'll show it at the slightest hint of trouble.

Sometimes dealing with a trespasser verbally will do the trick, even it it takes some name-calling or other similar argumentative BS. Eventually they'll leave, your blood pressure will be boiling but all turns to normal soon after.

Other situations (given USP45usp's scenerio), I'm sure I would with out a doubt open carry out of my door if neighbors (with a track record as he describes) are in my yard or otherwise trespassing on my property. There's probably little point in trying to reason with a crowd like that (although I'd try at least on one occasion, other subsequent occasions would constitute my weapon in my hand.

One thing to at least consider, is when we wait for our life to be in eminant danger of serious bodily harm or death - it's probably too late in a lot of cases... What's the definition of this anyway? When someone is walking towards you (in your yard) and you "feel threatened"?

There's gotta be more to it than that. I would at least retreat into my home locking all doors and windows... calling the police obviously.

If he breached my windows/doors he would be dead.
 
Depends on the state doesnt it?

My scenario for dealing with trespassers when I am home alone(done it twice):

We had some odd folks come down our driveway, and park in our field and start unloading camping gear! Serriously! This was during the Motocross Nationals in the park that is maybe 1/4 of a mile from our place. People disrepsect property owners since they don't want to pay for camping within the park(they also thrash the area and leave a big mess), so they camp wherever they damn well please. I had to deal with this TWICE myself, since my folks were at work.

First time was easy enough, it was the road side of our property(we have a county road boarding the far side of our property, and I noticed them when I was being dropped off at home by a friend. So, I simply went for a walk in the woods and came to the road(and the trespassers). I talked with them for a bit, and I told them that this was private property and they did not have permission to camp here. They seemed cool enough with it, and left without a problem, though, I see their vehicle later on about 3/4 of a mile up the road, camping under a powerline :rolleyes:

Second time was a bit more interesting(as it freaked me out a lot more). Same deal almost, MXer deadbeats that lack respect, just a darker looking bunch(like 5 people compared to just 2). These guys had the balls to come down our driveway, and PARK in our field and start unloading gear. I think part of it was that their were no cars parked at our place. Anyways, I added up the odds(5 rather creepy looking guys), and decided the best course of action was simple, polite, and armed. Grabbed my shotgun, and I carried it in an unthreatening matter(under my left arm) and went out to investigate. They got pretty pissy when I asked them to leave(I did so as polite as possible), but they did comply(I guess now that I look back, I didn't even need to be armed, but yeah, never take chances) after much cursing. They left a nasty skid mark in the field to...

Recently(last 2-3 years), the nieghbors have pretty much agreed that we just keep whatch during MX Nationals, and during the worst of it(Sunday night), we do walk throughs on the driveways. I feel bad for the poor souls that live on the Washougal River Road :barf:
 
I think the original poster thinks the general pubic thinks that way because of the "Tresspassers will be shot" signs that have been around so long. ?? And the more facecitious 'survivors will be shot again' signs of late.

A lot of it depends on the trespassers behavior I think. Are they exhibiting violent behavior? Even if not directed at you personally. Is it reasonable to assume that if allowed to stay unconfronted, that they will continue to be violent and perhaps even direct it towards you & yours? If so then it would could be a wise decision to confront them while armed. I wouldn't just come out blasting, but I'd be careful and 911 and all that.

And that bit about what if they barge in and not threaten you directly, but shoot your dog? They've exhibited violent behavior, its reasonable to assume that they would continue such violence if allowed, so bang bang. Means , oppurtunity and demeanor fulfilled.
 
Edward429451 said:
And that bit about what if they barge in and not threaten you directly, but shoot your dog? They've exhibited violent behavior, its reasonable to assume that they would continue such violence if allowed, so bang bang. Means , oppurtunity and demeanor fulfilled
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My dog is my family. Shoot my dog, you'll die.

There's nothing wrong with thinking this way :D

C'mon look at him he's adorable!

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