Training with flashlights, WMLs, etc.

For a person working alone with a handgun, its pure silliness ( in my estimation) to rely only on a WML. If a person cannot recognize the inherent problems which are easily associated with a sole WML, I think you need some training.

As always, there are going to be people who watch youtube, play video games, read magazines and simply want to do it because they think its cool.

To the guy who may be suddenly thrust into a dangerous situation where you are forced to defend your self with a handgun... you arnt seal team 6 or ghost recon or any of that jazz. You are one guy who would likely benefit from as many advantages as possible. Being substantially limited by having your weapon and your light source exclusively linked forever and always.. aint always such a good thing. If you are puzzled by that statement, again.. you likely need some training.
 
There is nothing about using a weapon light that requires it to be your only light. In fact the very idea is folly because for every situation where you need a WML you are probably a few hundred more where you need a light and it wouldn't be appropriate to have your gun out.

But nothing is stopping a person from having both. The price of weapon lights are coming down, and so is the size. You can even get one that can attach to a Glock 42/43 without really adding to how much room it takes up in your pants and for less than a $100.
 
FireForged said:
Being substantially limited by having your weapon and your light source exclusively linked forever and always.. aint always such a good thing. If you are puzzled by that statement, again.. you likely need some training.
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I'm puzzled... you can purchase a gun, ammo (to get proficient, as well as carry ammo), holster... but you can't afford a weapon light AND a regular flashlight?

Weapon light or not, I carry a Surefire P2X. Only time I don't is when I know I'm going to be using the flashlight (doing something outside, at night), in which I switch it out for my P3X.

If someone thinks carrying a TLR-3 on a pistol is substitution for a regular flashlight... might need to rethink their carrying. Gun, and weapon light, shouldn't clear the holster until needed. At that point, that should be your main consideration, not also grabbing a flashlight. If the flashlight is in your support hand (I don't recommend to use a flashlight with your dominant hand), drop it as you are coming up on target and transition to controlling the weapon light. Most flashlights can take a drop.
 
Thanks, Skadoosh for your post. In that case, the light allowed you to decide against shooting, but of course the opposite case is also true. But I wonder if your training ever included playing the opposite role? Lights, like guns, have no loyalty; anyone can use them. It would be interesting to find out if any has ever played the person in the dark waiting for the guy with the WML to come hunting for him? What does HE see?

Jim
 
Most FoF low light does include you playing the bad guy against the instructors. As the instructors want you to see how well the techniques work, not just tell you that they work.

Most cases you can shoot blindly in the general direction, but aimed fire is impossible while the light is on, and shortly after it is turned off.
 
I'm puzzled... you can purchase a gun, ammo (to get proficient, as well as carry ammo), holster... but you can't afford a weapon light AND a regular flashlight?
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sure you can... that was my whole point. If you are relegated to only one, I would use a hand held light and if I am going to use a wml, I would make sure to have a second light.
 
Most FoF low light does include you playing the bad guy against the instructors. As the instructors want you to see how well the techniques work, not just tell you that they work.

Most cases you can shoot blindly in the general direction, but aimed fire is impossible while the light is on, and shortly after it is turned off.
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what about the guy you don't see because you have to keep your gun with WML trained on the 1st hostile you encounter.
 
things don't always happen in small rooms. Danger and violence are typically very fluid things. Its not hard to construct a scenario where a WML saves the day. The trouble is when the badguys and happenstance have ideas of their own.
 
Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. That is how combat is.

But there are few scenarios where a WML is anymore of a liability than any other handheld flashlight.
 
FireForged said:
sure you can... that was my whole point. If you are relegated to only one, I would use a hand held light and if I am going to use a wml, I would make sure to have a second light.
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You sure that is your point, because you seem to be gunning against weapon lights pretty hard. If so, I'll agree on that... stated what I normally carry on me previously.

Your other two arguments really don't defend one verses the other. If you engage a threat with either a flashlight or a weapon light, you aren't going to notice the guy off in the darkness (if he is in such a position that spill doesn't aluminate them). If you are drawn on someone or just shot them, they are going to be the center of your attention. Just because you have a flashlight instead of a weapon light, your aren't going to be searching for someone else as your gun is on a perceived threat or as you are firing. If you do think you are going to get into a position like that... situational awareness. [emoji106] I'm having the feeling we are talking about civilian concealed carry more than L/E use, so that characteristic is something I'd stress on.

If you are in a room/area that doesn't work well with your light, also at a hinderance (includes all lights). You can have too bright (rather have it, mainly for the disorientation), but can also have limited throw. My P3X works great with vehicles that have tinted windows, but 1,000 Lumens can also be a pain in a hallway/small room (why I like the standard models, with the second 15 Lumen mode). My TLR-3 only has 125 Lumens, but the spill makes it worth it for most of the conceivable scenarios that I'd pull my Glock 30S out... and if it isn't fit, a Surefire is right there. But the TLR-3 isn't a huge weapon light or makes carrying my 30S extremely difficult (really, was just an additional holster). There is always pros/cons for every choice of gear... just need to make the best choice for your situation/need.

A weapon light is just more capability. It isn't going to be the reason you were killed in a defensive situation, because you had the light on your pistol. Someone can give their position away just as easy, if not easier, with a regular flashlight by waving it back and forth. It is something to work on, whether you are watching someone use a flashlight at night to see how big a neon sign they can make themselves out to be, or practicing it inside your house.

I consider a weapon light similar to a reload. If you don't use it, it isn't a big deal. You did what you needed to do with what was in the gun. But if you do need it and don't have it, you kind of are up that proverbial creek without a paddle. Not suggesting to just carry a weapon light, but if you can put it into your carry setup, and are willing to do a little training with it... it is a very good addition for that situation everyone hopes never happens.
 
Thanks, Skadoosh for your post. In that case, the light allowed you to decide against shooting, but of course the opposite case is also true. But I wonder if your training ever included playing the opposite role? Lights, like guns, have no loyalty; anyone can use them. It would be interesting to find out if any has ever played the person in the dark waiting for the guy with the WML to come hunting for him? What does HE see?

Jim
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Don't wonder. Of course my training included playing orange forces. I have literally stood alone behind a pile of desks and file cabinets in a very dark room....and waited. And at the end of each scenario, I always wound up rubbing welts and having to wipe wax from my facemask. When an opposing team had their act together, it didn't matter that I had a pretty good idea of when and where from they would press...it didn't matter that I saw the occasional sweep of their WMLs. I could count on getting lit up in both the literal and figurative sense of the word. And rarely did I score hits on more than one attacker before taking hits of my own. I considered getting hits on the first one I saw a personal success. If I managed hits on two or more, I considered it a mission victory.

I am having trouble understanding why you fail to see what WMLs bring to the table in terms of leveling the odds. A WML is only a piece of gear. Like any piece of gear, it should be used only when actually needed and not used when not needed. This is not rocket science. Its risk management. Used sparingly and judiciously, in my experience a WML is useful in sidelining Mr. Murphy.
 
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your aren't going to be searching for someone else as your gun is on a perceived threat or as you are firing
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Brother, if you have your gun on a badguy... lets say you have him prone on the ground and you think someone else is nearby or someone else is moving up on you... you are likely going to look. You are likely going to momentarily look (with or without) a WML You will do that so that you can make a decision to take some sort of action, change positions or retreat. It only takes a brief fraction of a second to do that. Its not a 15 minute affair, its more like .3 of a second. You may do it once, you may do it 2 or 3 times to satisfy your suspicions. It not an uncommon circumstance for anyone who is in the business of dealing with such things and if the suggestion is that taking the gun and the light off the badguy just to get a peek at something else is preferable to performing the same maneuver with a handheld light... I will politely disagree.

My words here or only meant to highlight the fact that when used broadly.. a WLM can have some drawbacks. They can have some drawbacks that would not otherwise be very likely with a handheld light. I think WMLs have their place and I think they are perfect in some narrow uses and especially on rifles/shotguns.
 
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I believe those who are firmly ensconced in the a "WML will get you killed" haven't actually been in mortal danger inside a structure that has no lighting even during daylight hours.

Those skeptics really should take twenty minutes out of their lives and watch this video, which is one of the best explanations and demonstrations that I have found to date.

"More brighter is more better".
 
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