Training my friend with a pump shotgun was a failure

W

Wallabing

New member
For whatever reason, my friend (he's in his 50's) cannot hold or shoulder a shotgun properly, even when I demonstrate it for him, or try to position it for him.

He simply does not have the upper body strength to shoulder a shotgun properly.

But even worse, he does not even have the dexterity/strength in his arm or hand to pump the action back and forth.

He fired one shot of birdshot while sitting on a bench and he called it quits, he says it was way too painful for him.

This is a Remington 870 shotgun he bought himself, so he basically wasted alot of money on it if he even cant use it.

Would you all think a pistol would be better for him? I'm having doubts if he can even work the slide on a semi auto.
 
Do you have a bolt action rifle chambered in something like, like 22lr or 223? The amount of recoil from a 12 gauge from the bench is indeed less than pleasant. If he can't handle the bolt action, then a revolver in 22 or 38 special.
 
gauge?

I've seen that before, though usually with females. I have also seen elderly subjects who could not manage the slide on an auto pistol. Strength can be an issue, so can stock fit. Bamawife, for example, cannot manage a shotgun, she's quite petite.

One of my instructor details I was fortunate to pull was instructing Bureau of Prisons (BOP) employees. Everybody learns to shoot 3 different weapons in the BOP: carbine, handgun and shotgun) We saw a lot of females who were not corrections officers but administrative. The 12 gauge just beat them up. You don't mention how the Remington is chambered, 12 or 20? A 20 might help w/ recoil a bit. A high dollar recoil pad might help some, as would a butt stock of the correct length. Strength.......pushups!!!!!!

Options:
-A double gun would be lighter and perhaps easier to handle, though less weight would accentuate recoil......but a double 20 coach gun could be an option.

-Forget the shotgun.....sell it and obtain a pistol caliber carbine. The manual of arms for a lever carbine is a bit complicated to the newbie,but another option. A HiPoint auto carbine in 9mm is affordable, and the dang things run too.

My BOP detail showed me that the shotgun is not for everybody. If we could get the trainee to understand sights and trigger with the handgun, they invariably aced the carbine. One advantage is that the auto carbine operates somewhat like a handgun, with a box mag, safety, etc.

But the pump shotgun was just too much for some folks. A kicker, longer and heavy, and a manual of arms all its own.
 
I think at this point he cannot shoulder any rifle at all. It is that bad.

I'm thinking that a 22lr revolver would be the next thing to try.
 
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bamaranger said:
I've seen that before, though usually with females. I have also seen elderly subjects who could not manage the slide on an auto pistol. Strength can be an issue, so can stock fit. Bamawife, for example, cannot manage a shotgun, she's quite petite.

One of my instructor details I was fortunate to pull was instructing Bureau of Prisons (BOP) employees. Everybody learns to shoot 3 different weapons in the BOP: carbine, handgun and shotgun) We saw a lot of females who were not corrections officers but administrative. The 12 gauge just beat them up. You don't mention how the Remington is chambered, 12 or 20? A 20 might help w/ recoil a bit. A high dollar recoil pad might help some, as would a butt stock of the correct length. Strength.......pushups!!!!!!

Options:
-A double gun would be lighter and perhaps easier to handle, though less weight would accentuate recoil......but a double 20 coach gun could be an option.

-Forget the shotgun.....sell it and obtain a pistol caliber carbine. The manual of arms for a lever carbine is a bit complicated to the newbie,but another option. A HiPoint auto carbine in 9mm is affordable, and the dang things run too.

My BOP detail showed me that the shotgun is not for everybody. If we could get the trainee to understand sights and trigger with the handgun, they invariably aced the carbine. One advantage is that the auto carbine operates somewhat like a handgun, with a box mag, safety, etc.

But the pump shotgun was just too much for some folks. A kicker, longer and heavy, and a manual of arms all its own.
Click to expand...
It was a 12g.
 
I would look at a Ruger Mark pistol, whichever Gen you like. They are pretty easy to load and cycle the bolt. Probably the latest version for ease of disassembly and reassembly. The mags can be a bit difficult to load but with the little plastic device to compress the spring it’s easy to load. Plus the newer ones are also available in lighter versions so easy to handle weight wise, and being a .22 recoil is not a problem.
 
What is the intended purpose? Self defense? Just some range fun? Hunting? This detail would help us to offer more refined recommendations.

And, as an aside, it sounds like he might have some degenerative neurologic or arthritic condition. A man in his 50s shouldn't normally have the problems you describe.
 
How about a Ruger 10/22 youth model. Very light, no recoil, easy to cycle bolt, very inexpensive, and 25 round mags loaded CCI Stingers will work for home defense if that is all you have.
 
My Compliments

Would you all think a pistol would be better for him? I'm having doubts if he can even work the slide on a semi auto.
Click to expand...

Reading between the lines, I'm thinking tht he is looking for HD firearm. My first though is Heritage or Wrangler SA Pistol. There wouldn't be much of an investment on either and that Heritage is available in .22-WMR. I will pray for your friend as I have one with similar issues. ….. :)

How about a Ruger 10/22 youth model.
Click to expand...
I'm not aware that Ruger makes a youth model. Perhaps a charger might work??

My compliments in helping your friend and'
Be Safe !!!
 
12 gauge from the bench?
No thanks.

How about a 10/22 compact (don't think they make a 'youth' 10/22).
I've seen quite a few ultra light builds on chassis style frames.

Wouldn't recommend a Charger for anyone with weak hands.
 
Like others, I'm going to assume HD is a goal here. This suggestion might get boo'd down, and that's okay, but maybe consider a Hi-Point 995 carbine. Here's why I'm suggesting it:

* It's a pound or so lighter than the 870, and its short overall length (31") should make it feel even lighter since the mass is closer to the body.

* If hand strength is an issue, the pistol grip may be easier to control.

* Recoil with 9mm ammo will be MUCH less than a typical 12 ga or 20 ga shotgun, but is still viable for defense.

* No manual cycling. Charge the handle once, then just pull the trigger.

* Longguns are generally easier to shoot well than handguns, and practicing with a carbine shooting 9mm will be easier on the body than practicing with a 9mm handgun.

* Inexpensive. You mentioned he "wasted alot of money" on the 870. This leads me to believe cost is an issue. The Hi-Point 995 should be less than $300.


I know Hi-Points are ugly and some people take issue with their metallurgy, but most accounts from people who actually shoot the 995s say they are reliable and easy to shoot.


...as for the recommendation for the 10/22, if you go that route, you might consider a T/CR22 (Thompson Center's 10/22 clone) as well. It's about the same weight as the Ruger 10/22 compact--4.25 pounds, but I find the stock ergonomics better on the T/CR22 (I own both stocks).
 
I would first find some friends that have various six shooters starting with a .22lr & .38 with the maximum length barrel that he can handle. If you have a few female shooters that will demonstrate the way to shoot the firearm first then help him to fire it. I would try to find someone with a similar hand size with the .38 that might have the ridges between the fingers. If he handles a .38 then try him with a .357 mag. I find the older gentlemen do not like to be shown up be a female to get him to take it serious.

Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk
 
Charger is a compact 10/22

How about a 10/22 compact (don't think they make a 'youth' 10/22).
I've seen quite a few ultra light builds on chassis style frames.

Wouldn't recommend a Charger for anyone with weak hands.
Click to expand...

I would not recommend a 10/22 for anyone that can't shoulder it. The Charger is a compact 10/22 and has the same action. You can shoot a charger off a bi-pod or Cross-Arm, ….. :rolleyes:

Be Safe !!!
 
Try before you buy!!

Shooting a 12 gauge off a bench is a traumatic way to start off a new shooter.

It may or may not be true that with determination,low recoil ammo,etc the problem cam be ovrcome. My nephew weighs about 80 lbs and he loves 4-h trap shooting.

But it may well be our subject has no enthusiasm for the 12 gauge at this point.

That would take communication and considerably more trigger time.

I can't tell you what is best..long gun,short gun....any more than I can tell you what dog is best.

Your subject needs to find something that he will shoot enough to become proficient.

I gave my Daughter an M-1 Carbine.

An AR carbine or Mini-14 will pretty much handle any chore a Rem 870 will handle ,except bird hunting.
The 9mm carbines would do.

For weak hand/arm strength S+W has developed the 380 EZ series of handguns.

Your subject might be best served by getting re-introduced to shooting with a .22. Let it be fun. Don't worry about SD, just have fun shooting.

Then try shooting other guns.

He has to want to find the gun that works for him. Let the search be fun and interesting.
 
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A Daisy Red Rider but be in order. Just saying. All kidding aside as I get older recoil is getting more unpleasant. I have to put slip on butt pads on to be able to take recoil.
I have to agree with HiBC giving a new shooter a 12 gauge especially on a bench is not good. I’m sure we have done and seen others give a first time shooter a 44 magnum or bigger and all laugh but it’s just not the way to do it.
 
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Ruger makes a charger varient that comes with a folding brace. Very compact, but I doubt it is lighter then the 10/22 compact (or youth or whatever it's called) either way the very basics are the same. My wife has hand strength issues and can manipulate the small 10/22 very well.
 
shotty

When I run Lady's Day at the range, I have them use my wife's Charles Daly 20ga semi-auto.

Kick is minimal and gun weight is very light.

I had the shotgun mag-na-ported as well.
 
If for personal defense in the home, how about one of those Mossberg Home Defense .410 pumps? They are light, and have a pistol grip forearm that should be easy to cycle. See attached image.
 

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