Today's News

[zeke]

To be honest, never believed he would be convicted in his home state. Am not a fan of removing the drug question(s) on the form, it makes a fine tack on charge. Gotta remind myself that Hunter lied and purchased/kept the gun, as compared to just being caught lying and denied.

And personally believe the only reason he got prosecuted was the previous plea deal blowing up in the prosecutors face.

Ifen wanting to promote conspiracy theories, would suggest this is just a warning shot over the bow for someone to step away from the race.

 

[s3779m]

FFL licensing, (along with a host of other things) came from the 1968 Federal law. Does anyone know if the original forms (4473) included the drug question, or was that added to the form later, and if so, when??

I find it more than a bit ironic that the folks who were fine with that for over half a century are now, today, making noise about how the entire issue of drug use shouldn't be on the form. Now that the son of one of their biggest supporters has been caught and convicted under that clause, NOW they think it might be unconstitutional???



Remind us, again, exactly WHY Martha Stewart went to prison.

wasn't it because she lied to investigators?? or something like that?

Martha was eventually indicted on nine counts by the government, and the charges included obstruction of justice and securities fraud.

After a six-week trial in March 2004, a jury found Martha guilty of felony charges including lying to federal investigators, obstruction of an agency proceeding, and conspiracy to obstruct,

https://hollywoodlife.com/feature/martha-stewart-jail-4808313/

 

[dogtown tom]

Tom Servo It's possible he'll appeal on the grounds 922(g) is unconstitutional.

That may be. But he also lied on a federal form.

 

[dogtown tom]

JohnKSa

So... What's the enforcement effort on 4473 violations, in general?

On buyers, pretty rare. That's going to be part of any appeal I'll bet.
But mistakes/errors/omissions made by a buyer when filling out the 4473 will more often result in enforcement action against the FFL if not caught.

I've caught a buyer lying about his past drug use. When he filled out the 4473 he answered that he was not "...under indictment or information in any court for a felony, or any other crime for which the judge could imprison you for more than one year...." and another no to "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?".

When I ran his NICS, he was immediately denied. I gave him the info about appealing his denial immediately. Several months later I ask if he had heard a result, he lied and said the FBI wouldn't tell him why. (they must give the reason within five days)

I called BS, told him the storage fee clock started today and it would be $5 per day. About two months later he brings me in an FBI document showing that his period of deferred adjudication was over and he could buy a gun. He passed the NICS that day.

He knew the day he filled out the 4473 that he was prohibited.....and just like Hunter Biden lied. ATF Dallas told me "the US Attorneys Office does not accept charges for those types of violations".

He paid me around $300 in late fees.

 

[dogtown tom]

BobCat45 J

ohnKSa aske (rhetorically):
Quote:
So... What's the enforcement effort on 4473 violations, in general?

There is an out of date (2018) GAO report on that at:
https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-18-440.pdf

The initial summary statement is that
Quote:
Few Individuals Denied Firearms Purchases Are Prosecuted and ATF Should Assess Use of Warning Notices in Lieu of Prosecutions......

Very true.

Maybe a bill should be introduced that requires any law that has been in effect for some arbitrary period, and has seen spotty enforcement, be reviewed and repealed unless it has overwhelming support in Congress.

Like the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act from two years ago? It's an attempt to strengthen gun laws.

Now a denial requires the dealer to tell the FBI the buyers address when the transaction is denied. The FBI is now required to notify the local LE agency that a prohibited person attempted to purchase a firearm.

It wouldn't have stopped Hunter.

 

[rc]

Old Joe said he intends to respect the legal system and is not considering a pardon for his son but I think Joe says a lot of things that simply are not true. He will pardon Hunter for everything he ever did since childhood as soon as the votes are cast and the poles are closed. Maybe he'll even pardon his brother and himself. Joe has a habit of doing the opposite of what he tells us.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

And personally believe the only reason he got prosecuted was the previous plea deal blowing up in the prosecutors face.

Can someone explain to me why the plea bargain blew up? I know it did, but I can't recall ever seeing an explanation of why.

 

[Swifty Morgan]

Martha Stewart effectively stole millions from other people who bought her shares. She knew the stock would tank, and they did not, because they did not have illegal access to the information she had. That's why she went to prison. She belonged there.

People seem to think what she did was no big deal. Imagine buying 10,000 shares of stock with your retirement account and then watching it tank. You would want to hang her.

 

[s3779m]

Can someone explain to me why the plea bargain blew up? I know it did, but I can't recall ever seeing an explanation of why.

It came down to a question on how much immunity Hunter would receive.

U.S. District Court Judge Maryellen Noreika, who was appointed by President Donald Trump, said she was concerned about the language in the diversion agreement, which contained details about not prosecuting Biden for tax crimes in the future. She suggested the lawyers get back together and discuss it.

Many of the tax crimes which would have received immunity involved money from foreign governments which were under investigation. A very slow investigation IMHO.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/07/26/hunter-biden-plea-deal-00108276

There are better articles out there which tell the story, but at the moment I lost what I saved.

 

[Electrod47]

Who cares about despicable worthless people....I never want to hear the mans name or his despicable adventures again. The interest in him is a waste of time and can do nobody any good. He should be ignored, just like a rotten piece of fruit that has fallen out of a tree and is covered with flys and rot. You just step aside.

 

[zukiphile]

Can someone explain to me why the plea bargain blew up? I know it did, but I can't recall ever seeing an explanation of why.

S3779m's source is correct, but I'd offer some context. A diversion agreement or plan is a sort of off-ramp along the road of criminal prosecution. Where I've seen them, you take a criminal defendant and set forth some requirements, maybe a course of counseling and a new court date. This is a great tool for someone who had a moment of poor judgement, needs to be held accountable, but also doesn't need to have a criminal conviction following him around. if he comes back on the new date and he has done everything right, his charges are dismissed and he goes on his way.

In state court, it's a useful tool for a defendant who is a normal person, librarian who blew barely over the blood alcohol limit because she had a second beer after a birthday party, who needs a wrap on the knuckles but not a sentence that has them losing a job so their lives unravel.

In this specific case, the agreement between the prosecutor and defendant was so extraordinary the DOJ conceded that it was uniquely favorable to the defendant, including other criminal matters not directly tied to the firearm or drug problems. The court hadn't seen anything like that before, inquired, and liked it even less after her inquiry.

 

[44 AMP]

He should be ignored, just like a rotten piece of fruit that has fallen out of a tree and is covered with flys and rot. You just step aside.

As a person, I would tend to agree with you, however, this particular piece of fruit is from the tree that is crowned by the man who is currently the sitting president of the United States, and seeking to be re-elected as such,

His son's actions DO reflect on him, and his judgement.

 

[The Verminator]

Our leaders........president, senators, representatives, judges........are mostly rotten fruit (or maybe fruitcakes) now.

I don't see any better candidates waiting to be elected.

I don't see why anybody pays any attention to any of them.

Alas, Babylon.

 

[Tom Servo]

Can someone explain to me why the plea bargain blew up? I know it did, but I can't recall ever seeing an explanation of why.

Initially, his lawyers concocted a plea deal in which he'd cop to the tax charges. He'd get two years probation and deep down in the fine print <stage whisper> let's drop those gun charges.

The judge realized they were pretty much using a plea deal for a misdemeanor to give him immunity on felonies, and she nixed the whole thing.

When dad's a multimillionaire politician, they think they can get away with these sorts of things.

 

[44 AMP]

I don't see why anybody pays any attention to any of them.

We pay attention to them, because they have the power to wreck or even end our lives, or worse, the lives of my children.

The politics of extremism currently rules the arena, calm, moderate, rational thought is largely ignored.

This is one of the downsides to democracy, we don't necessarily elect the best people or the people with the best ideas, we elect the most popular ones, and disinterested, under educated voters whose information supply is controlled by the agenda driven popular media not only allow the situation to exist, but ensure it continues.

and, in further news, liquid water is ...wet.

 

[natman]

He will get probation.

He'll be a convicted felon.

He will lose his gun rights, among others.

He will get probation.

He will appeal.

The SCOTUS response will be interesting.........hard to predict.

Biden was convicted on three counts:

Lying on a 4473
Lying to an FFL
Buying a firearm while a drug addict.

The last charge has some possible room for appeal on Second Amendment grounds.

However, it's a felony to lie on a form like a 4473 that's filled out under penalty of perjury and it's a felony to lie to an FFL. Period. Those charges are likely to stick.

 

[The Verminator]

We pay attention to them, because they have the power to wreck or even end our lives, or worse, the lives of my children.

The politics of extremism currently rules the arena, calm, moderate, rational thought is largely ignored.

This is one of the downsides to democracy, we don't necessarily elect the best people or the people with the best ideas, we elect the most popular ones, and disinterested, under educated voters whose information supply is controlled by the agenda driven popular media not only allow the situation to exist, but ensure it continues.

and, in further news, liquid water is ...wet.

The only reason to vote is to keep one or the other of the political parties from getting control of the presidency and the House and Senate.

If either collection of idiots gets total control they will have the power to bring their own version of extremism to fruition.........this will bring turmoil we have never before seen.

Get out and vote........for divided government that is unable to do anything.

Because when they do something we all suffer.

 

[44 AMP]

If either collection of idiots gets total control they will have the power to bring their own version of extremism to fruition.........this will bring turmoil we have never before seen.

In theory....

In reality, its not quite so cut and dried. We have endured decades of one party dominance of both the Executive and the Legislative branches, and while it makes it more likely they will get their pet pipe dreams passed, its not a certainty and they have never gotten everything wanted by either party.

 

[The Verminator]

In theory....

In reality, its not quite so cut and dried. We have endured decades of one party dominance of both the Executive and the Legislative branches, and while it makes it more likely they will get their pet pipe dreams passed, its not a certainty and they have never gotten everything wanted by either party.

However, that was then and now is now.

Things have changed dramatically.

The country has never before been so dramatically divided in half with the two halves so full of rage and so hostile to each other.

It's now a powder keg with a short fuse.

 

[zukiphile]

However, that was then and now is now.

Things have changed dramatically.

The country has never before been so dramatically divided in half with the two halves so full of rage and so hostile to each other.

It's now a powder keg with a short fuse.

We did have a war a century and a half ago that involved a lot of hard feelings and division.

Almost a century ago, single party dominance supported by voters who wanted it that way tried to take an eraser to the idea of limited government and mostly got what they wanted.

The metaphor of the keg and fuse suggests that the keg hasn't already gone off. I think the fuse has run, the keg ignited, and we are seeing the contents burn. We have some influence over how it burns.

There's a sense in which voting, elections and the courts are all dispute resolution mechanisms. For those to work, the users have to accept resolution at least in the near term, i.e. until the next election or nomination. if you accuse the winner of being a traitor or ask crowds to harass or endanger justices and exec staff, you aren't allowing those mechanisms to work. If you ignore the rules for how those election mechanisms are regulated, i.e. through state legislatures, you invite people to question the result. If you brag to supporters that you will initiate policy despite likely unconstitutionality, or boast to supporters that you will continue a policy despite the Sup Ct having found your prior action beyond your legal authority, you show a disregard for orderly resolution that won't stay contained.

In the absence of dispute resolution in which people can repose enough trust, disputes will be resolved in other ways. That's not a good alternative because those alternatives don't stay contained either.