To those who prefer hammer fired guns...

How much more do Glock type guns have an accidental discharge/failing interior safety (striker shoots foreward discharging an round) and the like compared to guns with other mechanisms?
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I think modern guns are as safe as they can be UNLESS... you pull the trigger (obviously). So more than depend ending on the internal mechanisms I think that the reason for more NDs occurring with striker fired guns if because of the characteristics of the trigger/lack of hammer.

Having said that... and for clarification to the other guys... is not because of safety concerns that I opened this thread :D
 
I want to ask armedleo specifically if there are with striker fired guns in his experience more accidents (ND, AD, etc) than with other firing mechanisms.

In his experience.
 
No.
You started the thread.

I just consider These Posts as a heirloom of Knowledge for much People which seek info.
So it's not just about the OP or specific to this Topic.

These Forums are IMHO considered as an type of University and knowledgebase for the whole world.
 
Hammer fired guns typically have vastly superior triggers to striker fired. My tanfoglios have stunningly good triggers. 5#da / sub 2# sa. Competition guns. A few spring changes and it could be 7/3 or higher.

Smooth rolling pull, sharp wall, crisp break.
 
I would not dare to have an round in the chamber with an SD9VE or Glock (striker pistols).

I consider that unsafe since you never know whats going on inside the gun.
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Mitigated to a certain extent by the Springfield XD (Croatian HS2000 in the rest of the world), with both loaded chamber and striker indicators. I think also the Ruger SR series guns do too. Possibly others?

How much more do Glock type guns have an accidental discharge/failing interior safety (striker shoots foreward discharging an round) and the like compared to guns with other mechanisms?
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The way I personally got over that, was to take the slide of a Glock apart and see how it worked. The firing pin block is a thick steel pin that has to be pushed aside by a bump on the trigger bar. Without the trigger being pulled, the gun will not go off.

Everything these days, outside of classic (so called "Series 70") 1911s, has a similar system.
 
ratshooter said:
In a recent article by Mass Ayoob he related a story from 25 years ago when he asked an FBI instructor why they went with a DA/SA pistol. The instructor stated the DA pull made the gun safer and then if an agent had made the first shot then he was in a fight for his life and the lighter single action pull would make it easier to get well placed hits. That works for me.



I have two DA/SA guns, a model 39-2 and a model 915 and have no plans to replace either one. I do have a S&W SW9VE as a truck gun and it is carried with an empty chamber. If carried concealed it would be with a loaded chamber like it was designed to be carried.
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I don't doubt that story, though I'd point out last I knew Ayoob carried a Glock.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Now is called HS9 .... funny story in my country we have both the HS9 and the springfield version. The XD9 costs double what the HS9 costs :-)
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OK. I was going on memory. HS2000 was what it was called by the first importer into the US, before Springfield Armory started importing it.
 
I like my SA/DA Beretta 92FS. It was my "go to" home defense weapon for 15+ years. Now that one is locked away, unloaded, and my Glock 17 is my loaded home defense weapon. Why? I found the Glock to be more reliable. I had a variety of feed issues with the 92FS, particularly if not recently oiled, and I'm ashamed to say I often don't pull my guns out for months at a time, so not wet is certainly a possibility and the Glock just runs anyway.

As far as the "feel" goes, I'm way more accurate with the Beretta 92FS than I am with a striker gun, at least in SA mode. The DA mode is also great as a safety feature, IMO. That first defensive shot is an adrenaline pull anyway, so that heavy trigger isn't going to make the difference in accuracy then. If you have time to aim, you have time to pull back the hammer.

I like both. Both are valid. If I'm stuffing it down my pants, I don't want any kind of exposed hammer whatsoever.
 
The only Thing I know about the striker fired Plastik pistol I have is that I developed an serious flinch after Shooting that pistol followed Shooting with the 36 oz. SAA Revolver (SA only).

It just screwed up all Shooting skills.
 
It would be unfair for me to comment on the frequency of ADs regarding striker-fired guns generally. I can only comment on our experience as it relates to Glocks. But that was our experience and I would caution against extrapolation beyond the 400 men and women of our agency.

In fairness to Glock, you must keep in mind that over 2/3s of the police agencies in the U S issue Glock pistols to their officers. That said, it would figure that if an AD occurs odds are that it happened with a Glock. The data on its face will be skewed against Glock unless the necessary mathematical calculations are made across all police officers carrying whatever striker-fired gun makes carried.

I can tell you that our records showed very few ADs when we carried revolvers.

I was assigned the investigations into both contact and non-contact police shootings all involving Glock pistols and after obtaining sworn statements as part of our shooting review board of those officers involved it became clear that some genuinely decided not to fire but finger on trigger with trigger press commenced caused a round to discharge that was unmeaning. Also, enter the phenomena of contagion firing. Here again, one shot fired, by bad guy or fellow officer, seemed to produce a fusillade of gun fire when it wasn't really meant.

Again, based upon my own anecdotal experience, I came to believe, and still do, that the striker-fired operation is not well-suited to police work. This could be caused by our own training failures, and any number of other intangibles. Clearly, more agencies (police chiefs) disagree with me. But that's just me. Also, since we transitioned to the DA/SA P226 the number of ADs plummeted dramatically. This, to include self-inflicted gunshot wounds to the leg, foot, and buttocks. Especially when re-holstering.
 
armedleo,

Thank You very much for sharing.
I appreciate first Hand experiences no matter what others say.

I Quote you Sir: <<Also, since we transitioned to the DA/SA P226 the number of ADs plummeted dramatically. This, to include self-inflicted gunshot wounds to the leg, foot, and buttocks. Especially when re-holstering.>>

Besides the heard instinct induced firing (the lead "bull" fires and all "cows" start to fire as well) and human error (finger on Trigger when reholstering):

The Accidental Discharge was it sometimes a failure of the pistol mechanism (no finger on Trigger. No human error)?
 
Good question. We sent the pistols first to another agency's Glock armorer and no mechanical malfunction found. We then had a Glock gunsmith go over the pistol with our own armorer. They concurred: no mechanical failure found.

However, we did experience a few failure to fire events during qualifications. Again, we sent the pistols to another agency for analysis. They found the firing pins were either not fully reaching the primer or were too weak when striking the primer. Glock was called in again. They identified the problem: that particular batch of steel contained too much iron causing the firing pin to become brittle and either split or erode over time. They changed the firing pins out and problem eliminated.

As to human error, I believe this is the end result of the majority of firearm mishaps regardless of gun maker or style of mechanical operation.
 
Armedleo,

Thanks again for sharing. So no Major accidental discharges due to firing System as I understand you.

How worrying this is: <<that particular batch of steel contained too much iron causing the firing pin to become brittle and either split or erode over time. They changed the firing pins out and problem eliminated.>>

So I have to go in situ novadays to the factories to assure material Quality? if that Batch of steel is screwed how must look like the other parts of the gun? The slide must be iron as well an any Moment can fly off the gun. What about the safety was it "to much iron" as well? They must have changed the Barrel and slide as well since an iron Barrel can not withstand the high pressure 40 S&W.
I further distrust the striker fire mechanism.

Better have an hammer DA/SA or DAO or SAO.
 
So I have to go in situ novadays to the factories to assure material Quality? if that Batch of steel is screwed how must look like the other parts of the gun? The slide must be iron as well an any Moment can fly off the gun. What about the safety was it "to much iron" as well? They must have changed the Barrel and slide as well since an iron Barrel can not withstand the high pressure 40 S&W.
I further distrust the striker fire mechanism.

Better have an hammer DA/SA or DAO or SAO.
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Factory defects do happen, regardless of firing system.
 
Guy, I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding that the striker system is inferior to hammer designs. That could have passed any manufacturer's QC. It's less a defect of the system than a QC failure. A 1911 could have the same issue or a different one that squeezes by QC. I prefer the looks of nice metal DA/SA or SA guns but generally use a striker fired polymer for SD.
 
1) "I prefer the option of thumb cocking for a SA trigger if I want."

2) And like the other poster said, you can look down and tell if it's cocked.

3) You can cock the hammer to make racking the slide easier.

4) A pistol with a hammer is more likely to not be a polymer pistol. I prefer steel, or at least alloy.

5) It's what I'm used to; I'm more comfortable with them.
 
First off, let us be clear about "striker fired" pistols. There are a LOT of striker fired pistols that are NOT GLocks, or Glock style pistols. SO, blanket statements about striker fired pistols are often inaccurate.

Second, the reason 2/3 of the police in the country have Glocks is NOT because it is a superior pistol, but because Glock had superior marketing.

The Glock style "safety" on the trigger IS mechanically safe enough, BUT it is not ergonomically safe in undertrained hands. An accidental pull of the trigger, that would not discharge a DA gun, or a gun with a manual safety engaged will fire a Glock or similar style gun.

People have shot themselves in the middle of the night, "answering" their Glock instead of the phone. Simply put, the safety on the trigger design is less forgiving than other system, and more accidents result.

PROPER training overcomes this, but proper training is a rare thing in our world. There is a reason that NYC requested a heavier trigger pull from GLock for their guns.
 
Bacha, I went to the link you provided for the HS/Springfield copy and was amazed how much it looked just like the Springfield. I also saw an interesting gun the VHS-K2, now that is an awesome looking rifle!

As to the type of action I prefer, it does not matter to me I shoot and carry both SA/DA and striker style pistols. No rhyme or reason for me.
 
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