To Conservative TFL members: Will you vote if Ron Paul is not nominated?

No.

One of my main complaints is the plurality voting system. Participating in it only gives the two-party system strength and legitimacy. If I vote 3rd party, I'm pretty much wasting my vote to make a political statement (which goes unheard by the masses). If I vote for a major party, and my candidate wins, there's no way in Hades he'll support a change away from the voting system that got him elected.

I think my best option is to contribute to a decline in voter turnout/response in federal elections. If we can get to the point where only 10-20% are voting in federal elections, that's something even the dumbest couch-surfer can understand. Fear of political instability at that point might motivate the major parties to switch to a different voting system, even though it hurts them.
 
Rudy for President (Republican)

Obama for Vice president (Democrat)

Al Gore for Secretary of State (Green...well...he should be)

Sounds like and is akin to Cerebus the three headed dog monster.
 
I think my best option is to contribute to a decline in voter turnout/response in federal elections. If we can get to the point where only 10-20% are voting in federal elections, that's something even the dumbest couch-surfer can understand. Fear of political instability at that point might motivate the major parties to switch to a different voting system, even though it hurts them.
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If they keep getting elected, I'm not sure your conclusion that they would switch follows from your argument.
 
What's strange? Everyone here knows that W/A is a supporter of A. the status quo and most things government does, and B. several forms of gun control.
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O such a deep and cogent analysis..Im impressed :D

I wonder what witty (ha ha) personal attack he'll drum up to respond to this
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7 post junior members who came here just to troll in L&P dont warrant the benefits of my wit:D

WildgulianiwillwinsoyouallbetterstartgettingyourchipsinfrontofthedealerAlaska
 
Doesnt Rudy look hot badbob...keep those photos away from spiff :)

WildiamstartingtogetakickoutofmcainanyonewhotellsanothersenatortofoffiscoolAlaska
 
"That's what neocons like Guliani, McCain, Romney, et al want, just vote for them, and shut the heck up."

Doug,

My statement was one of your quotes in question. It does not align with the quote you stated above. I have posted in another thread and should be claimed here to clarify:

VOTE! Whether dem. rep. 3rd party, whatever. Write in who YOU want. But, by all means VOTE. To not vote, you do not participate in electing your next representative. That's called dictatorship, or tyranny. IT'S NOT ONLY OUR RIGHT, BUT OUR DUTY..
 
A more practical choice than writing in someone with zero chance of getting any publicity with his numbers, and FAR more practical than not voting at all, is to vote Libertarian. Your own personal way of saying "both of you suck, so I'm going to bolster a third party's numbers."

Hey, they got 0.34% of the popular vote in 2004, so anything can happen. :D
 
"A more practical choice than writing in someone with zero chance of getting any publicity with his numbers, and FAR more practical than not voting at all, is to vote Libertarian. Your own personal way of saying "both of you suck, so I'm going to bolster a third party's numbers.""

I see your viewpoint, but I respectfully disagree. If the Libertarian rep. doesn't stand by my key issues, I can't in good conscience vote for him. It's another way of saying the least of three evils to some...
 
Doesnt Rudy look hot badbob...keep those photos away from spiff

WildiamstartingtogetakickoutofmcainanyonewhotellsanothersenatortofoffiscoolAlaska
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LOL! Yeah Rudy looks hot...in a J. Edgar kind of way.:p

badbob
 
VOTE! Whether dem. rep. 3rd party, whatever. Write in who YOU want. But, by all means VOTE. To not vote, you do not participate in electing your next representative. That's called dictatorship, or tyranny. IT'S NOT ONLY OUR RIGHT, BUT OUR DUTY..
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Sorry I misunderstood, tuttle. I apologize.

I agree with you in not just picking between Demokrats or Republikans. However, writing in a vote or voting for some 3rd or 4th party somebody or another to is more or less a waste of time. While one man can make a difference, without any kind of organization, it is a waste of energy. If I have the choices of D-Barac Obama, R-Rudy Guliani, G-Ralph Nader, I-Phil Donohue, I-Oprah Winfrey, I-Screwy Squirrel, I-Martian Manhunter who thinks we need to throw all tax money into NASA and building space stations, or filling in a name I want ___Doug.38PR________ that's no choice at all. And me, my dad or my favorite college speaker or pastor or even Ron Paul or Pat Buchanan being filled in the blank is something nobody will ever see unless there is a concentrated organized effort.
It's a waste of gas to even drive down to the local library or elementary school to show them my voter registration card.

If there is no worthy candidate to vote for, it's tyranny with either party, what's the point? If beyond that it's a bunch of screwballs or a write in name (I think last year I wrote in Michael Peroutka for Constitution Party, but that was still a concentrated effort with a party that by and large identifed with the Republic of the Founders) then there is no point in going out.

Not voting sends a clear message to the party that expects your support because you are "conservative." If they don't do what we want, then we don't vote for them. Period. If there is no choice, then stay home.
 
It's a waste of gas to even drive down to the local library or elementary school to show them my voter registration card.
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They don't have Congressional elections or local elections where you live? ;)
 
Understood, Doug. BUT, a vote is a vote. I stand by the principle of doing my duty.

Look at it this way. What's the difference if you don't vote at all to send a message and writing a name in?

Answer: The same message you want to send will be done, but the latter you participated in the practice of a Republic...
 
Yes, I'll vote, but it'll either be third party or democrat.

I'd rather vote for a democrat that has openly declared themselves as my enemy than a republican that calls himself my friend, but stabs me in the back.
 
Fight, campaign, and do whatever you can to get your chosen candidate nominated. If he doesn't get nominated choose the next candidate that most closely mirrors your beliefs. This crap about republicans getting ticked off because their poster child puts his foot in his mouth and kills his campaign is sure to get a candidate elected that is completely opposite your beliefs. I take the high road on most things however when it comes to my country, my guns etc. I must vote for the lesser of two evils. I have to vote for the most conservative of the two folks in the general election. It will turn my stomach to vote for a McCain or even a Giuliani but they are head and shoulders better than Hillary or Barak Hussain Obama. In a perfect world Ron wouldn't have eaten his shoe (what a pathetic view of America and 9-11 BTW) or Fred Thompson would run and win the nomination if not I will vote for the lesser of two evils for my children's sake.
 
I'll vote otherwise, but for POTUS? No. There's no difference between a Guilliani victory and a Hillary victory except, maybe, the overt level of agression in the short term. Since both also fail miserably regarding taxes, the UN, abortion, homosexuals, etc there is, literally, no reason to vote for one over the other. Party label is NOT that important.
 
threegun,

Giuliani will sign whatever anti-gun legislation that makes it through Congress just as quickly as Obama or Hillary. You can take that to the bank. He will also attack other freedoms guaranteed under the Constitution by supporting illegal wiretaps and so forth. I hope you're not one of the many people who believe that liberty should be traded for the illusion of security provided by a Big Brother government.

As far as Ron Paul's view of 9/11, he didn't say anything that the 9/11 Commission Report didn't say. Paul spoke the plain, painful truth: the reason radical Muslims hate America is because the US government has been meddling in the Middle East for decades, killing countless innocent people. If you think pointing this out amounts to "hating America," then you need to stop listening to phony conservatives like Coulter, Hannity, Limbaugh, Horowitz, Pipes, and the "scholars" of the American Enterprise Institute. Loving America means loving the Constitution, not the US government's sick policies. By that standard, no politician loves this country more than Ron Paul.

Rudy must have read the 9/11 Commission Report. He knows very well that US policy makes us hated. But he chooses to spout demagoguery instead of the truth.

If I wanted to make another terrorist attack in the US as likely as possible, I would not change a thing in current US policy. I'd keep the borders as open and unguarded as they are now, and I'd keep poking the Middle East hornets' nest. This policy ensures a steady supply of enemies and keeps the doors open for them to get into the country. That's what most of the GOP neocon candidates intend to do (and most of the Democrats are no better, of course).
 
Hillary has vowed to increase taxes, reduce our pressure on the terrorist abroad, and will ban our guns. Giuliani has said he won't raise taxes, will keep the pressure on terrorists abroad, and will not activley seek to ban guns. There is a difference. I may not like Rudy but I hate Hillary. If for no other reason than the security of this country I would have to vote for Rudy over any of the democrats.
 
Steelcore, The Muslim extremists have said that our culture is a direct attack on theirs. They hate us not only for meddling in the middle east (something we have been doing for decades yet now they attack us for it) but because our way of life will ultimately bring an end to their way of life. This has been stated by many muslims as a primary reason for there desire to kill us. Then you have to toss in the radicals who's intepretation of the Koran has them believing that they must kill us.

Ron Paul basically said we instigated the sept 11 attack. All we did differently was to help an ally in 1991. That isn't meddling that would be saving a country from an invading enemy country. We have always had interests in that region (oil) as have dozens of other countries. It seems as though our "meddling" is but an excuse used by terrorists and puppeted by Mr. Paul.
 
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