To carry chambered or not?

Seminole, do you understand the way the PPK safety works? I think the odds of an ND with the safety on are microscopic. I would say impossible, but safeties are mechanical and mechanical things fail.

First, the safety lowers the hammer, Second, the safety block the hammer from contacting the firing pin. You can see the "pin blockers" rise as you lower the afety. So, even if you manage to draw back the hammer while adjusting your pouch, the hammer can't contact the firing pin.

I chose a PPK (clone) for carry because of the safety, and think its a very safe way to go.
 
Dave R

Yeah, I understand the way this safety works. It readily lends itself to a visual inspection. I've carried it for about a year concealed w/out a problem. I've owned it for about six years w/out a problem.

My paranoia started w/the smartcarry holster. Intellectually I knew how safe the gun is. I just had a sinking feeling that I needed addressed. I really just wanted more experienced opinion on this issue.

I really do want to thank all of you for your input. I think the posts have all been very constructive.

Ralph
 
How to carry a SIG safely in a SmartCarry

I too got a ThunderWear holster (P220), and was too concerned about shooting my pecker off to carry it with a round chambered.

Until someone told me about THE BIG SECRET: Saf-T-Blok

This is a small chunk of machined aluminum that is friction fit _behind_ the trigger guard. Just slip it into your loaded gun (this is the _only_ trigger guard whose mfg states that is safe to use with a loaded gun!) and push it out as your draw your gun.

Each Saf-T-Blok is designed for a particular gun, for optimum fit (unlike those one-size-fits-all trigger locks). It also has a nylon screw that you can adjust to provide just the right amount of friction so that the Saf-T-Block won't fall out accidentally, yet will be easy to push out w/your finger.

There's sold by what seems to be a mom&pop outfit:

http://members.aol.com/saftblok/

You can't order on the web; you have to call them.

It's not advertised on the web page, but they do carry SIG models.

I just got mine a few weeks ago, and consider it the best $17 (or whatever it was) I've spent in a long time.

I wish they made Saf-T-Blocks for rifles and shotguns, 'cause the way it works to lock up the gun is the best thing I've ever seen.

----

Another really cool thing about this device is that if you use it with a padlock (see above URL for photo), the slide can't be moved! This is cause moving the slide causes the trigger to move back into SA mode. But since the trigger can't move, the slide can't move.

Very cool.

----

There is one downside though. The combo lock in the URL is an extra option. I figured I'd use a tiny Master keyed lock instead. Well the Master lock fits through the hole just fine, but it the U-shaped piece is about 1/32" of an inch too short to engage the locking mechanism. Doh!
 
Yeah, I've been thinking about using the 232w/the saftblock thingy but wasn't sure they made it for sigs. I think that it would actually be easier to pop off the thingy rather than disengage the safety on the PPK.

Thanks for the input.
 
You need to bring a gun to a gunfight. One with a chambered round is best, and one with an empty chamber is a distant second, but it sure beats no gun at all. A gun carried in something like Thunderwear is slow to get into action. A gun carried without a round chambered is slow to get into action. But as the saying goes, "a condition 3 in the crotch is worth two condition 1's in the car", or something like that...
 
Seminole...

As a CCW instructor I instruct my students to NEVER rely on ANY mechanical saftey. NEVER.

I do instruct them to practice,practice,practice.

If you are aware enough to carry a firearm for self defense, then you should be aware enough to safley handle a loaded firearm on all accounts. Practice good technique,muzzle control ,keep your finger off the trigger and dont point it at anything you dont want to shoot and you'll be alright. Respect the gun and treat it as a lethal weapon.

The P230 is probably the best built and sturdy design there is in a .380. It is an exellent weapon with exellent quality and a very popular piece for concealed carry due to design and weight.

I would not recommend carrying a defensive weapon with an empty chamber. A police officer friend of mine did just that and nearly lost his life to a knife weilding attacker. Things can happen so quickly that one thing you should not have to concentrate on is trying to chamber a round while holding off an attacker with your other hand. In most situations things NEVER go as planned.

You must be confident with your piece to be effective.The p230 will do just fine if you let it.
 
Seminole,
If you are interested in learning the Israeli method, there is an outfit called "The Halo Group" that advertises on another board. If you happen to be into Glocks, then you might know which one I am talking about.;)
 
Seminole, I would not worry about the round being chambered or not with your carry style. If you've got to get down into your pants to retreive the weapon, chamering a round will not make any difference.

I will probably get slammed for this but as civilians with CCW we are not in the same boat as LEO, Recon Marines or Delta Force. Yes, I understand that most confrontations come "out of the blue" but if you are carrying then you should be aware. Don't suddenly walk into a crowd of 30 gang bangers and then go, "duh I need to do a quick draw". Mental awareness will get you through more than a loaded gun will.

Having said that, when I carry my P220 it is on my side in a paddle or belt slide and I have no qualms about carrying it that way or IWB or "Mexican style". With the hammer down of course. Would never carry the BHP with a round in the chamber and the hammer back. It is something I don't feel comfortable with. I would never, ever carry my G19 Mex style with a round chambered. :D

Please get something that gives you confidence and go with that. If you feel better without a round chambered then go for it. If you want a round ready, then that's the way to go. In the end, it will be you who decides wheter to draw the weapon or not and you will have to decide whether to use deadly force. We can all sit here and give advice, but we won't be there when the moment of truth arrives. And I hope it never arrives.
 
You'd be surprised how quickly you can retrieve from a smartcarry or thunderwear. Either way, it is much faster than an ankle holster and more discrete. Given the constant and oppressive heat in Miami, I doubt I can carry any other way to business meetings. Weekends, of course, I carry in my urban assault holster (aka fanny pack! ;) ).
 
Sem, my point was that while you might get it out fast (the weapon that is) I will guarantee you that 98% of the time I can get my P220 from it's paddle or belt slide while you are still arranging things. Given that fact, and not that I think this method of carry is bad, the time to chamber will not make a difference. But like I said at the end of my last post, whatever you are comfortable with is the best.

My job requires a suit coat most days so I've got lots of carry options. :D
 
Am I missing the point here ?

Just how can a Sig 232 which has a drop safety be fired by the hammer snagging on your pants. It will either :

a) lock back into single action mode (quite a feat in
itself) ; or
b) go part way and drop back down, engaging the hammer
block in the process and thus failing to go bang.

Either way you're safe from an AD.

To me guns that have a significantly higher risk of AD and should be carried un-chambered are :

Glocks - acceptable only in Sidearmor holsters or similar
Kydex rigs that cover the accident initiation
device, sorry, trigger. Ok here come the flames :)

Anything cocked and locked (you really have to be brain damaged to carry a gun with the hammer back no matter how many safeties it has IMHO)

Revolvers & semis with no drop safety.

Now I know that the above is a religious insult to 1911 owners, so I would stress that these are my own limitations on carrying a firearm. My own CCW instructor in Pennsylvania (even though I'm actually English) carried a Glock 36 in his pants pocket along with all the other junk that us guys have in there, WITH A 230 gr HYDRASHOCK CHAMBERED, I nearly wet myself when he took it out to show me.

Like I said, different strokes for different folks.

Seriously though, if anyone can educate me on how a modern semi with a drop safety can have an AD as a result of hammer snagging, I relly would appreciate a heads up.

Regards

Mike H
 
The Israeli's are soldiers and soldiers have different needs for a handgun. It is a back up weapon to them and speed into action is not a s critical. I don't care how fast you are from condition 3 you will be faster with a loaded chamber. If you need to carry a gun you need a loaded gun.
PAT
 
You probably would be fine, but I share your concerns. After all, never point a firearm at something you arent willing to destroy :). I prefer a IWB, strong side, behind the centerline of the waist. The muzzle is typically pointed slightly away from my body, should a ND happen for what ever reason (act of God or act of stupidity), the results will undoubtably be painful and embarasssing, but not as bad as the alternative! Granted, proper gun handling with the SIG would make the chances of a ND unlikely, you still must do what you're comfortable with.

FWIW.

Bri
 
That Saf-T-Block is one bright idea. Compare it to the manual safety, either the right kind (Browning's, thumb goes down) or the wrong kind (Walther's, thumb goes up, only good for professional marble shooters). What the heck is your TRIGGER FINGER doing at the same time. In a moment of max stress, it may be too damn close to pulling the trigger as the safety comes off, before you are really aiming at the BG. Now with this Saf-T-Block by itself, when the safety goes off, your finger is behind the trigger and you have to move it into firing position as you line up on the BG. Ain't as fast but it may be safer and still fast enough.

Bart Noir
Where are we going and why am I in this hand basket?
 
Mike H,

As far as Condition 1 and 1911's are concerned, that's the way they were designed to be carried. A 1911 in a properly designed holster that covers the trigger guard and safety is just as safe as any DA pistol and twice as easy to get into action and use. I used to be uncomfortable carrying condition one. Then I thought about the design. Even if the safety fairy were to snick off my thumb safety and depress my grip safety without me knowing it, the gun still won't go off. All the safety fairy has done is convert my 1911 into a Glock!!!!!! As long as the trigger is covered, I'm covered. This nonsense about the evil cocked and locked 1911 is baloney.
 
whats the point of lugging around a concealed weapon without it cocked and locked?carry a gun that your not fearfull it will discharge when ya bend over,DAO
 
I think I have the answer to this problem: Kevlar Thunderwear! ;)

Seriously, the Saf-T-Blok thing works well. I was concerned about this and I ordered one for my Kahr MK-40 a few weeks ago. IIRC, they said they were discontinuing the Kahr models.
DAL
 
Okay. Im the odd man out here and I should have admonished Seminole to do what makes him feel best. That having been posted, I still will carry condition three w/pistols and with the hammer on an empty chamber w/revolvers. I will take my chances.
 
Will Beararms, I respect your choice to carry without a round chambered but I find a couple of your statements puzzling:

If I cycle the slide, the decison has been made.
Click to expand...

Earlier, though, you said:

I have found during training that the time it takes to cycle the slide allows me to assess the situation.
Click to expand...

This sequence of events makes it sound as though you make "the decision", and then you assess the situation as you're cycling the slide.
 
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