To carry chambered or not?

S

Seminole1986

New member
That is the question. OK, I carry either a PPK/s or as Sig 232. I carried each in an ankle holster w/a strap accross the hammer and a chambered round.

BUT . . .

I've recently started carrying in the SmartCarry, inside the pants holster. FYI, this is similar to the Thunderwear brand.

Well, I don't carry the sig this way b/c it has no external safety. I've carried the PPK/s this way b/c w/the safety engaged the gun is effectively locked.

BUT . . .

Lately, I've been getting a little antsy about this arrangment and have started carrying the PPK/s w/out a chambered round. I started doing it when I read that the Israeli's (no slouches) carry in condition 3.

Am I just being paranoid? Is this a good idea?

BTW, when carrying in an ankle holster I always chamber a round b/c I figure that the strap will hold the hammer down and keep it from firing. Also, in the event of a discharge the muzzle isn't pointed at my dearest parts! ;)
 
I wasn't going to..........

....but I must.

Carry gun loaded and ready for immediate operation (unless, of course, you ARE training with the Mossad).

If you are afraid of a ND blowing off your privates, suggest carrying better gun.

.02



----------------------------------------

"all my privates are NONE OF YOUR DAMN BUSINESS"
 
Ditto WESHOOT2.

1. Don't make a defensive handgun a "hands" gun.

2. Carry a gun you are comfortable carrying ready to shoot.

3. The Israelis, I believe, are required to carry in condition 3. Their success only demonstrates what proper training can do.

Happy Hunting :)

P.S. Remember the rule about pointing a gun at things you don't want to destroy? Enough said. ;)
 
Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. The comment about the Israelis was merely illustrative. In no way would I equate my abilities w/anyone who has had military or police training. If I had had such training, I wouldn't be asking this exceedingly basic question.

Moreover, I specifically chose the PPK/s b/c it combines an external safety in a small package. If the external safety were not an issue, I would have chosen a Kahr or a Glock. Also, the suggestion about buying a better gun is really beside the issue. Post after post on this site has extolled the virtues of the Sig 232. One poster went so far as to say it is the best .380 on the market bar none. I don't carry it in the pouch b/c it has no external safety and the pouch has no strap to hold down the hammer.

With that said, Is my concern about carrying the PPK/s w/a chambered round and the safety engaged a legitimate concern? The PPK line has been around for 70 years. Surely someone must know if they are prone to discharges w/the safety engaged.

Thanks in advance,

Ralph
 
The Real Question is...

Why would you want to require extra operations to use a weapon to save your life?
A pistol with even one safety should not fire until the safety is released and the trigger is pulled.I can't imagine why the Isrealis would carry with an empty chamber. Sure you can draw, chamber and fire in a heartbeat, but it requires two hands in most instances. If you had to defend against an enemy whose first shot gave you a "JohnWayne" in the left shoulder you would be at a distinctly unnecessary disadvantage. It makes no sense. It seems like a needless impediment.
 
Well, I can undo the safety w/my right hand as I draw it from a holster. I have practiced this again and again, w/an unloaded weapon of course.

Also, my 232 has no external safety, just several internal ones. I carry this in my ankle holster.

But when the ankle holster is inappropriate, I carry the PPK/s in the pouch.

I understand everyone's concerns about the use of a safety, but my real question is whether PPK/s are prone to discharge even w/the safety engaged. I have never heard anything about this so I think the answer is no. But if I have to carry w/out a chambered round then I might as well carry the 232.
 
I've never heard of a properly maintained PP/PPK firing with the safety engaged. The design precludes it. No experience with the SIG, but how could the hammer go back with out pulling the trigger. It can't. Nothing is going to be able to get at the trigger in the holster either. Should be a non issue other than your own nervousness. Just think about it a bit & I'm sure that you will understand & stop worrying.
 
Well, in the pubic pouches, the gun rides in a pocket inside the pants. There might be a slight possibility of the hammer catching on the fabric of my trousers just as I pull the pouch down to adjust it. Is this probable: no. Is it possible: yeah, long odds, but yeah. That is why I won't carry the 232 in it.
 
To follow up, I do agree that my concern may just be "nervousness". I phrased it as paranoia in the initial post. But that is exactly the benefit of a forum like this where users like myself can post questions to and get advice from more seasoned users.
 
Exactly.

Carry chambered.

(I was just having some fun. Assumed you were NOT training w/Mossad.)

For others reading this: the 1911 was designed to be carried in combat with the safety off.
 
FWIW, I carry my Colt Mustang Pocketlite in my ThunderBelt (now SmartCarry) C&L, and I have no worries about an AD shooting anything I value. :) I did have SM&A's Pocket Carry Package done on the gun, one of the things that helps it is a stiffer spring on the safety. I can't imagine the safety being knocked off and the trigger getting pulled by accident...
 
I cannot imagine carrying if I was paranoid about shooting myself. I also cannot imagine carrying a weapon that wasn't chambered at all times. In my view, not carrying would mean that I am not ready for the worst to happen. The same goes for not having a round in the chamber. Certainly, if I was paranoid, I wouldn't be carrying, and I wouldn't chamber a round. If I wasn't absolutely positive in my weapon's capabilities, I would opt for an alternate weapon of choice. This applies to both my HK USP 40c and my G23.

Semper Fi-
JJC
 
Seminole1986:

In reply to your question, "...is whether PPK/s are prone to discharge even w/the safety engaged." I have never heard of such an occurrence.

If you feel there is a chance that your SIG P232 may discharge in your holster I think you have forgotten that the trigger has a pull of about 15lbs or so.

If:
There might be a slight possibility of the hammer catching on the fabric of my trousers just as I pull the pouch down to adjust it.
Click to expand...
I think you need to stop "adjusting" the pouch.;)

Stop carrying any weapons until you can obtain some professional firearms instruction. Go to Thunder Ranch or Gunsite or Frontsight! or F.A.S. or anywhere you feel can best serve your needs. I am serious. You are carrying a firearm that you seem to feel will go off by itself, or you lack the self-confidence or skills necessary to carry a firearm, possibly into harms way, on a daily basis.

You wrote:
In no way would I equate my abilities w/anyone who has had military or police training.
Click to expand...
If somebody taught you proper sight picture and proper trigger control, you have about the same amount of training as most military personnel and many police officers.

I have carried a Walther PPK/S with a round chambered and the safety off in my waistband without the hammer cocking itself, much less cocking itself and then firing. If you are carrying it in a holster of good quality and construction, I don't think you will have any problems with either gun.

Regards, David.
 
Hey Seminole this part Choctaw carries Israeli Style and is proud of it.

Never heard of someone blowing off their privates? Well I have and it came from an MD I duck hunted with two years ago. He stated during his internship in Memphis,TN,he treated more than one young male who shot of their package. It's not a pretty sight per the good Doctor.

P232 not a good gun? On the contrary, it's a masterpiece.

I would never carry IWB with a round chambered. I have found during training that the time it takes to cycle the slide allows me to assess the situation. If you are a civilian, you better dearn well know what is beyond and to the flanks of your target before getting a shot off. Equally important, you better make sure you are justified before killling someone else. The mere fact that you carry and that you are the good guy is no guarantee you won't be killed, maimed or imprisoned after a shooting.

Chambering a round in the Glock is so smooth and quick as well. I always go condition three when I tote a Glock. My mindset is totally different than most due to the fact that I have experienced so many things in life that appeared to be one thing but in actuality were another. Choose what works for you and ignore the masses. I still carry revolvers in the newer designs with the chamber where the hammer rests empty. I'm sorry but it's what works for me.

If Seminole feels comfortable in Condition Three so be it. That having been said, you must devote extra time and training to be proficient.

My mentors in handgunning thus far have been a retired DEA agent and a Vietnam Era Green Beret. Find yourself a mentor and you won't be sorry and be sure to show your gratitude with an act or two of kindness.
 
Well, thanks for the input. I agree that my concerns are probably unrealistic. Sometimes you just need someone to tell you this.

I've owned the PPK/s for 6 yrs w/out ever having a ND/AD. The reason I bought the PPK/s and the 232 was b/c of the safety and the hammer. As long as the hammer is strapped down it won't cock.

However, my concern really manifested itself w/the pubic pouch b/c it has no such strap. By holstering it this way I am placing all my trust in the mechanics of the PPK/s. I've looked closesly at it over the years. I've stripped it a zillion times and have seen the internal opperation of the safety and how it shields the pin from the hammer. I think it is a safe weapon.

My real concern was whether I had missed something. It appears the answer is no.

BTW, as for cycling the slide in order to assess the situation, I think it could actually be more dangerous. By cycling the slide in either the 232 or the PPK/s I place the weapon in SA. Each has a sweet and very short SA pull. I like the idea of having to pull DA on the first shot ensures that the first shot is intentional and not the result of the heat of the moment.

Thanks.
 
I won't comment on the safety of your style of carry, since I'm not familiar with the product you are using. I carry chamber loaded in IWB holsters. These holster cover the entire trigger guard (in fact, they enclose the entire barrel and slide as well).

I will say that there is a risk involved in carrying chamber empty. The only fast way to chamber a round is to use both hands, and your weak hand might be otherwise engaged. You might be using your weak hand to fend off the perp, or to push your wife to cover, or to pick up a small child, etc. There are techniques to chamber a round single handed (hook the rear sight on your belt, or behind your knee), but they are significantly more awkward.

Whether the reduced risk of an ND is more important than the risk of not having both hands to charge the chamber is something only you can decide.

You might consider using a tuckable IWB holsters (e.g., the VersaMax 2 from Milt Sparks). These cover the entire trigger guard, so they might make you feel more comfortable carrying chamber loaded.

M1911
 
If I cycle the slide, the decison has been made. I refuse to pull a gun unless I am going to use it. I am not an LEO.
If you are one to bluff, make sure your weapon has a chocolate handle in case you're forced to eat it.

I have been using guns since the age of seven and do not point a weapon loaded or not at anything I do not wish to destroy. Being tenative will get you killed.
 
Carry chambered...you'll be safe with both guns, but make sure the ppk has the safety on...we all know about their lack of an internal safety. We need to keep in mind that the Isrealis carry their SIDEARM in condition 3; not their primary weapon...In this case, your handgun is your primary weapon. You can bet that any Mossad op working the west bank with nothing but a firearm for personal defense does NOT carry it in condition 3. Just my thoughts...
 
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