Tips for shipping handgun to manufacter with UPS

[James K]

Dealers with 01 FFLs usually ship USPS (the mail). In fact, I strongly recommend making friends with your LGS and then if you have to ship a gun, they MIGHT be willing to mail it for you if you show them it is unloaded and pack it yourself. Even if they charge a fee, the total parcel post charge plus the fee could still be less than the UPS or FedEx charge, and possibly more convenient.

Jim

 

[JohnKSa]

I seriously doubt that as it is Kentucky Gun Company. They are a major distributor.

They have apparently weighed the cost/benefit and decided that they can afford the potential cost of violating the shippers' policies. They have a bit more legal leeway when shipping firearms than you and I do and that also gives them a little more wiggle room in terms of how they deal with the shipping companies.

Furthermore, losing a gun to shipment theft is far less catastrophic to a "major distributor" than it is to the average gun owner. They have insurance that you and I don't and also can tolerate the financial loss of a gun better than you and I might be able to.

It would be an error, and potentially a very costly one, to assume that doing as they do would be a good idea for someone without an FFL.

 

[johnwilliamson062]

Obfuscate the manufacturer's name. Ex. Instead of "Ruger", use "S.R. &Co, attn service". Instead of "Kel Tec", use "KT-CNC Service Dept.". This helps keep people from being tempted.

I worked in a courier distribution center for a bit in college. All the employees with any interest whatsoever knew the major firearms manufacturers and mail order pharmacy street addresses.

 

[thedudeabides]

-if you're going by UPS, print out several copies of the label and stick 2-3 of them on the box. Scammers who get jobs at UPS will try to steal high dollar items from the hubs, it's much harder for them to do so with several labels on the box
-you can obfuscate the name of the recipient, but odds are the people who plan on stealing your gun already know the shipping address/abbreviation
-if you're paying for the shipping cost, have your FFL send the gun by USPS, it's much cheaper
-make the box as big and as unwieldy as possible, those are harder to steal

Let's be clear, shipping firearms is a racket for UPS and FedEx. They cite all sorts of nonsense laws about minimizing the time they're holding the hot potato to justify gouging you 100 bucks to send a friggin firearm.

If I'm paying the shipping costs, I'm getting my FFL to send the gun. 25-30 bucks versus 100-125 is a no-brainer.

 

[oneloudvous]

Alright, thanks for the help so far...just to clear some things up..

STI is paying for me to send it in and return shipping to me. I already have the UPS shipping label.

I will label/address several sides of the box; and track it once its sent.

STI warranty said not to request info on the repair status for at least six weeks...

Has anyone actually had a a firearm lost/stolen in transit by UPS/Fex ex?

 

[Carmady]

thedudeabides: "Let's be clear, shipping firearms is a racket for UPS and FedEx. They cite all sorts of nonsense laws about minimizing the time they're holding the hot potato to justify gouging you 100 bucks to send a friggin firearm."

That's the exact impression I got with UPS when I called them.

It doesn't matter what any sticky says, the shipping companies are going to act how they want to act.

The people at FedEx gave me a few options for shipping a handgun, and Express Saver was the cheapest. I ship them insured with signature required, for about a third of what it would cost if I went to UPS.

A few years ago I took an old 1800s cap and ball musket to a UPS store, and they refused to have anything to do with it. I told them it wasn't a firearm. They didn't care, they weren't messing with it.

 

[James K]

You can ship an antique by mail (USPS). Just make sure, preferably in advance, that the clerks at that P.O. know the regulations. If you are in a big city, it will be best to mail from a small P.O. in a small town.

Jim

 

[dogtown tom]

chris in va

Quote:
FFL's don't get a pass on UPS tariffs. If your local dealer is shipping handguns via Ground he is doing so in violation of UPS tariffs.

I seriously doubt that as it is Kentucky Gun Company. They are a major distributor.

All you need to do is read the UPS tariff and you'll have no doubts.
I get at least one handgun a week from KyGunCo..........NONE have ever arrived UPS Ground.......always Next Day.

James K ......they MIGHT be willing to mail it for you if you show them it is unloaded and pack it yourself.

DON'T seal the box! If the dealer ships it for you he's required to log the firearm into his books.

JohnKSa .....They have a bit more legal leeway when shipping firearms than you and I do....

No we don't. Licensees follow the same UPS & FedEx tariffs as everyone else.

oneloudvous ....Has anyone actually had a a firearm lost/stolen in transit by UPS/Fex ex?

Last month, a Taurus Judge on its way to me via USPS was stolen. When the box sat in the Coppell, TX Sort Center for several days they returned it to the shipper in North Carolina. (box was empty when they got it back)

 

[JohnKSa]

No we don't. Licensees follow the same UPS & FedEx tariffs as everyone else.

That is correct. However what I said does not contradict that. What I said was that FFLs have more legal leeway when shipping firearms. The point was because they are less likely than a non-FFL to get in legal trouble when shipping firearms, they may be more willing to bend the shipping company firearm policies.

 

[dogtown tom]

JohnKSa

Quote:
No we don't. Licensees follow the same UPS & FedEx tariffs as everyone else.

That is correct. However what I said does not contradict that. What I said was that FFLs have more legal leeway when shipping firearms.

If I'm correct, why do you repeat erroneous information?

The point was because they are less likely than a non-FFL to get in legal trouble when shipping firearms, they may be more willing to bend the shipping company firearm policies.

Please explain.
Anyone who follows Federal law in shipping a firearm doesn't get "in legal trouble".
Violating a shipping companies policies is not the same as violating Federal law.

With the exception of mailing firearms other than rifles or shotguns via USPS, licensed dealers and manufacturers have to follow the exact same federal laws as anyone else.......and in a couple of cases we have additional requirements.

To make the statement that FFL's have "more legal leeway when shipping firearms than you and I do" is completely and wholly incorrect.

 

[JohnKSa]

With the exception of mailing firearms other than rifles or shotguns via USPS, licensed dealers and manufacturers have to follow the exact same federal laws as anyone else...

Ok, so you listed one situation where FFLs have more legal leeway when shipping firearms than non-FFLs. I can think of another. An FFL can ship a firearm to a non-FFL in another state after repairing it or replacing it while a non-FFL could not.

 

[Don P]

Maybe it varies state to state.

UPS and Fedex are the same no matter where you live. STI should have sent a shipping label for warranty work. Saves a lot of trouble.

 

[dogtown tom]

JohnKSa

Quote:
With the exception of mailing firearms other than rifles or shotguns via USPS, licensed dealers and manufacturers have to follow the exact same federal laws as anyone else...

Ok, so you listed one situation where FFLs have more legal leeway when shipping firearms than non-FFLs. I can think of another. An FFL can ship a firearm to a non-FFL in another state after repairing it or replacing it while a non-FFL could not.

That's NOT "legal leeway".

Nonlicensees don't repair or replace firearms for others, nor would they be able to mail a replacement firearm interstate. Since the OP (and others in this thread) aren't licensees, bringing up the return of a repaired or replaced firearm has nothing to do with this thread at all.

Your original comment implied that FFL's could "bend the rules" with shippers. Remember writing this?:

"The point was because they are less likely than a non-FFL to get in legal trouble when shipping firearms, they may be more willing to bend the shipping company firearm policies..."

FFL's who bend the rules would get in the same trouble as anyone else. Your premise that licensees have "legal leeway" is flat wrong.

 

[Unlicensed Dremel]

Best tip, as far as I am concerned, is to use FedEx, not UPS.

 

[JohnKSa]

Your premise that licensees have "legal leeway" is flat wrong.

I have to say that I'm somewhat at a loss. From the beginning, your responses to my comments have been oddly oblique.

I initially made a comment about "legal leeway" and you responded with a comment about UPS and FEDEX tarrifs--shippers policies, not laws--a complete non sequitur.

Then you categorically denied that licensees had any additional legal leeway but in the same breath provided a perfect example of the additional legal leeway that licensees enjoy over non-licensees.

Given that we don't seem to be speaking the same language, I think I'm going to bow out at this point...

 

[Sevens]

If STI has given you a UPS label and already paid for the shipping... you don't need to visit any UPS facility, be it an official building or a branded strip-mall store. All you need to do is get that package in to their system.

You can hand it to a driver or drop it in a UPS box if it'll fit in the opening of that box. If you see a guy driving around in a large truck or you pass a UPS driver who is walking through a store, hand him the sealed package and it's well on it's way.

If anyone in the whole operation asks you what's inside, tell them it's not a hazmat and it's machine metal parts going back to the manufacturer at the request of the manufacturer, and being paid for by the manufacturer.

 

[Dragline45]

You can hand it to a driver or drop it in a UPS box if it'll fit in the opening of that box.

You can also schedule a pickup to your home. Actually each time I was sent a UPS shipping label from a manufacturer they set up the pickup for me.

 

[dogtown tom]

Sevens If STI has given you a UPS label and already paid for the shipping... you don't need to visit any UPS facility, be it an official building or a branded strip-mall store. All you need to do is get that package in to their system.

You can hand it to a driver or drop it in a UPS box if it'll fit in the opening of that box. If you see a guy driving around in a large truck or you pass a UPS driver who is walking through a store, hand him the sealed package and it's well on it's way.

If anyone in the whole operation asks you what's inside, tell them it's not a hazmat and it's machine metal parts going back to the manufacturer at the request of the manufacturer, and being paid for by the manufacturer.

While you most certainly could do that, it's clearly not permitted by UPS tariffs.

Getting Your Firearm Shipment to UPS
Firearms (including handguns) may be shipped only through a UPS Scheduled Pickup Account (specifically, Daily Pickup, Daily On-Route Pickup, UPS Smart Pickup®, and Day-Specific Pickup), or through a UPS Customer Center (counters at UPS operational facilities). Note: Firearms (including handguns) are not accepted for shipment via UPS Drop Boxes, UPS On-Call Pickup®, or at locations of The UPS Store® or any third party retailer.

Dragline45

Quote:
You can hand it to a driver or drop it in a UPS box if it'll fit in the opening of that box.

You can also schedule a pickup to your home. Actually each time I was sent a UPS shipping label from a manufacturer they set up the pickup for me.

No you cannot. See above.

 

[Dragline45]

No you cannot. See above.

I guess I was just imagining the three times UPS range my doorbell to pick up a firearm to be sent back to the manufacturer . The most recent was just a few months ago. I was sent a UPS shipping label from Beretta, Beretta set a pickup date for my handgun, I handed it off to the driver, and a couple months later it was on my doorstep. It went down the same exact way when I had to send handguns to S&W and Sig.

Also everything on this page says shipping firearms through UPS is perfectly fine. Note the passage below.

UPS accepts packages containing firearms (as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code) for transportation only (a) between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors (as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code), and government agencies and (b) where not otherwise prohibited by federal, state or local law (i) from an individual to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector; and (ii) from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to an individual.

http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/firearms.html

I also don't get how you could have read this passage and got from it that firearms cannot be scheduled for pickup from your home.

Firearms (including handguns) may be shipped only through a UPS Scheduled Pickup Account (specifically, Daily Pickup, Daily On-Route Pickup, UPS Smart Pickup®, and Day-Specific Pickup), or through a UPS Customer Center (counters at UPS operational facilities). Note: Firearms (including handguns) are not accepted for shipment via UPS Drop Boxes, UPS On-Call Pickup®, or at locations of The UPS Store® or any third party retailer.

Whatever the UPS On-Call Pickup® is must be a separate/special service from what they usually offer as firearms are exempt from it.

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[dogtown tom]

Dragline45

Quote:
No you cannot. See above.

I guess I was just imagining the three times UPS range my doorbell to pick up a firearm to be sent back to the manufacturer .

I didn't say it didn't happen. I said it was a violation of UPS tariff to do so. I have people ship handguns to me via FedEx/UPS Ground all the time, which isn't a violation of Federal law but does clearly violate FedEx/UPS tariffs. I also regularly receive handguns from nonlicensees in a USPS Priority Mail box.......that IS a felony.

Just because YOU did it doesn't make it any less of a violation of the shippers published policies.

Also everything on this page says shipping firearms through UPS is perfectly fine. Note the passage below.

No argument there......but you do have to follow their policies.

I also don't get how you could have read this passage and got from it that firearms cannot be scheduled for pickup from your home.

You don't get it because you either didn't read the entire page or chose to believe that it didn't apply to you.

Whatever the UPS On-Call Pickup® is must be a separate/special service from what they usually offer as firearms are exempt from it.

No sir, that's On Call Pick Up............you call when you have a package.

You'll also note that UPS tells you specifically how to get your firearm to UPS:
UPS Scheduled Pickup Account (specifically, Daily Pickup, Daily On-Route Pickup, UPS Smart Pickup®, and Day-Specific Pickup), or through a UPS Customer Center (counters at UPS operational facilities).

Do you have a UPS Scheduled Pickup Account? If not, then you violated their tariff.





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