Time to bring back the draft?

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I guess I was responding to comments like these Cisco ...er um MrNiceGuy.

I notice a couple of others gave responses similar to mine too.
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And it would just make way too much sense if those were in regards to the scenario outlined in the original post.

That would be too obvious though? So it must be some sort of trick aimed towards you and the others who have trouble following along. :D


That's OK, hopefully there will be enough people to take up your slack if it ever comes to that.
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You've acknowledged that we're talking mandatory service and that there is not a need for additional soldiers to protect our country at this time... in that case, pick up what slack?

Make the government spend a small fortune training me for a few months then go home and collect checks because i wouldnt be needed. and then they'll just call some day if i'm needed?
multiply that small fortune and monthly check by the non-military population and the fiscal costs alone would be the downfall of our nation. Where do you think we'd borrow the money from to build up our unused and unneeded military? China perhaps?

Instead, i'll just be working, paying taxes, and contributing to society until i'm needed/if i'm needed without needlessly draining the public coffers.

i guess i can live with that
 
cisco,

this is what I said:

When we get involved in wars on different fronts, requiring more personnel then we can get from volunteers, there WILL be a draft--count on it.
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Pay attention.

I'm a Army sergeant ......

I don't want, or need soldiers that don't want to serve!!
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AZTOY,
I agree 100% --I wouldn't think you would want anything different.

All the soldiers under your command may be the kind that really WANT to serve---That would be great!!

But, are you saying that EVERY soldier currently in our military WANTS to serve---in war time??
Because, I have talked to some for instance that do not WANT to go to IRAQ because they feel it is an " unjust war"---but they were content to accept their pay when they didn't have to go in harms way.

So, are you saying that all our current soldiers want to serve??


Dipper
 
lets not even consider a draft unless there was like a china/russia/nkorea/vietnam/cuba/venezula megaaaliance invading or something
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Let's not also forget that in this case, you wouldn't NEED a draft. You'd have even old farts like me wanting to sign up. Hell, I went to sign up during 9-11, and I still thank the recruiter for not laughing.
 
dipper
But, are you saying that EVERY soldier currently in our military WANTS to serve---in war time??
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Of course not ,but i think most do. I have a lot of soldiers that want to go down range. 1 soldier turned down orders for Fort Huachuca, so he can deploy with us in 2 weeks. (tour #2 for me)

So, are you saying that all our current soldiers want to serve?
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YES most do!!
 
AZTOY,

Thanks for your service---it's men like you that make it possible and have made it possible for us to enjoy the life we have here in the USA


Dipper
 
Sliding Topics

Use of a draft to train people to see the value of weapons is a bit extreme.

I have a cousin in the Swiss Army he is a complete pacifist. But he is a bank manager by day and a Lt. Col. (equivilent) in the Swiss Army on the weekends, he hates it and cannot wait to fulfill his obligation. When it comes down to it thats what it is about, obligation.

If you choose to join the US Military it is a choice, but once the choice is made you are now obligated. I used to tell my whiney little I wanna go home brats. Do your time, do it to the best of your ability and go home that is all that can be asked of anyone. War is something only pyschopaths and sociopaths dream about. No soldier wants to go to war, but it is why they are there. Most soldiers do the duty that they swore their oaths to, and fulfill their obligations. The others, well I suspect they will spend their lives trying to get out of every tiny hardship that comes their way instead of turning and facing it. Some in this country have never been taught that there is something bigger than themselves out there, something worth fighting and yes dying for. Well the soldier understand this and is willing to put his life out there for that person as well as his buddies. Right war, wrong war, makes no difference. I signed an obligation, and I will fulfill it. Honor is more than a word in a movie. Duty is the bitch they work with everyday (sorry ladies). Courage....well thats what wakes us up in the morning. Those 3 words, and the people who live by them daily have earned the rights guaranteed by The Bill of Rights. Those that havent served, well.....we will let you borrow them for a bit.;)

sorry i went to costco today and got a big box of soap:D
 
Consider for a moment if those who wish to take advantage of their own country had to spend three years defending it.
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Its one thing defending your country against invaders, its a whole other one having to fight on foreign soil for big business's and others interests, or because of them and their policies.

Another big issue with the drat that I havent seen mentioned is, the military now is a lot different than the military of past, and you need to have people with some brains to run the gear. Unless as before, they are just looking for cannon fodder from the "lower classes", your not going to have the people necessary to man the guns.
 
The draft is needed now more then ever to maintain a continuous force of semi-trained people in large numbers.

If you feel its slavery please exit and go to Mexico, Canada or a country of your choice I will hold the gate open for you.


A large percentage in Vietnam were volunteers and many of the draftees I seen were tough and some born leaders who remained in service 20+years as volunteers.

We have become a nation of people who want other people to do the dirty work that idea along with greed will destroy us.:mad:
 
This has been troubling me for some time. Like I mentioned in a previous post, I have a bunch of in-law, anti-gun relatives out on Long Island who have about wore me out on the subject. They "just don't get it."
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Anti-gun indoctrination is a powerful thing. They start early in the liberal public schools and keep hammering the anti-gun message in the media. The biggest hammer they use is the incessant coverage of a school shooting or other public shooting.... though rare, the media makes them fearful and scared. That is how I see liberals.... those who live in constant fear and who want the government to protect them from the various boogey men in our society. Some republicans also live in constant fear due to media also. It is a shame to see people living in fear all of the time. I don't imagine things have always been this way.

wingman
The draft is needed now more then ever to maintain a continuous force of semi-trained people in large numbers.

If you feel its slavery please exit and go to Mexico, Canada or a country of your choice I will hold the gate open for you.
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People like you have no power to tell their fellow citizens that they must leave their own nation because they disagree with you. Why don't you go to Canada or Mexico instead, if you don't like to be disagreed with.... see how you like it in those nations. Maybe you would prefer China since you sound like a hard line Communist who will accept no disagreement with their belief.

Draft? Have a government tell you that you MUST do something? No, I absolutely do not want to see a draft. If the people of this nation will not voluntarily take up arms to defend their own nation, then, as a nation, we do not deserve to exist.
 
"Big business's and others interests"??? We've been there for over 5 years, where's all the oil? I'm not aware of any pipeline being built or and endless parade on tankers going back and forth. From day 1, we only went near it to protect it from sabatage.

It doesn't take any more "brains" to run the gear than it ever did. A rifle still operates the same way it did 50 years ago, land nav is done with a map, protractor, and compass (unless you bring your own GPS) and you still have to learn your companies SOP's; no harder than being on a football team.

There's a reason the guys who are actually in the military keep saying they don't want a bunch of clowns that don't want to be there.
 
The draft is needed now more then ever to maintain a continuous force of semi-trained people in large numbers.
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For what purpose?

We have become a nation of people who want other people to do the dirty work that idea along with greed will destroy us.
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What will and is destroying us, is the fact that we as Americans have been taught and conditioned to no longer think for ourselves and question those who have decided they are in control and know whats best for us.

The greed part is definitely the main issue, but not that of your common American citizen, but of those who have interests that need and use our government, and those in it we have elected to serve us, to serve them, and their agendas.

Do you suppose that most of the rest of the world despises us just because we are Americans? Or is it because of what a few "Americans", along with the help of our government have done to them?


I find it entertaining how your patriotism is often brought into question if you disagree with the "party line" and dont go along. I personally think those who just do as their told, without question, are the ones who are the greater threat. They are the true followers, and means for the system to continue as it is. From what I've seen since the 50's, it hasnt been getting any better, and fewer and fewer raise their voices challenging even minor authority. Bow your head, do as your told, or you will suffer the consequences!

If your fighting for America, which one are you fighting for? The one we have now, or the one I was brought up to believe (and it appears naively so) we lived in where we were really free citizens who were free to follow their own path.
 
mtlucas
"Big business's and others interests"??? We've been there for over 5 years, where's all the oil?
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Yes. Where is the oil. The American people were led to believe that Iraqi oil would pay for our presence there. Instead, the American tax payer has provided $500,000,000,000.00 to pay for this war. I realize that the number means nothing to a lot of people, but your children and grand children will be paying for this war with their tax payments for many years to come.

mtlucas
There's a reason the guys who are actually in the military keep saying they don't want a bunch of clowns that don't want to be there.
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Maybe you haven't been paying attention, but Barack Obama is getting more donations from active duty military than McCain. I'd say that makes your statement, well, "not factually based".
 
A bit hypathetical and off topic but lets suppose that Iraq turns into another Kuwait (rich and free), and some type of prosperity starts to spread through the region which lessons the amount of people willing to strap C4 to their chest etc. etc. What will that be worth to our grandchildren?

Link to where you got your facts about the donations from military members? I've never heard any outpouring of love for the big "O" in the military.
 
Sounds like pie in the sky to me, mtlucas. Pie in the sky.

As for how much it will be worth to my children and grandchildren, I have not been able to ask them how much they are willing to pay in taxes for a war which may end up having no long term positive affects on our nation's security. The government is making this decision for them without their approval.
 
Link to where you got your facts about the donations from military members? I've never heard any outpouring of love for the big "O" in the military
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I went to google and typed in "military donations obama". Here are a few links that popped up.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-08-14-military-donations_N.htm

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3601542

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080814/military_donations.html

Thursday August 14, 6:31 pm ET
Troops donate more campaign money to Obama than McCain, despite McCain's military record

WASHINGTON (AP) -- U.S. soldiers have donated more presidential campaign money to Democrat Barack Obama than to Republican John McCain, a reversal of previous campaigns in which military donations tended to favor GOP White House hopefuls, a nonpartisan group reported Thursday.

Troops serving abroad have given nearly six times as much money to Obama's presidential campaign as they have to McCain's, the Center for Responsive Politics said.
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"Big business's and others interests"??? We've been there for over 5 years, where's all the oil? I'm not aware of any pipeline being built or and endless parade on tankers going back and forth. From day 1, we only went near it to protect it from sabatage.
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I see your not up on who actually runs things and how they work. Back in the first Gulf war, George Shultz, (you remember him right?) was Secretary of State. He was also at one time, the president of Bechtel, the mega construction corp who built much of the infrastructure in the middle east and many other places. Who do you think did the rebuilding after that war? Who was picking the targets? Conflict of interest? No, because if I remember correctly at the time, most of the cabinet then got a conflict of interest waiver.

No lets see, Dick Cheney, (you know who he is too, right?) He was CEO of Halliburton. Do a search on Halliburton and Iraq and see what comes up.

Yea, big business and the controlling members of our government have no ties, or interests, (or conflict there of) with anything to do with other nations and the wars (or actions, we still are not at "war") that go along with them. We are there merely for mom, apple pie, and the American way. :rolleyes:
 
I guess I could argue that he's gotten more money because he was in a longer and tougher fight against Hillary (who isn't a big hero of the military) while McCain was hanging back, but I'll give it to you. Numbers are numbers and if he's gotten more money then so be it. We'll see how the money from the military comes in now that the conventions are over.

What do you think the odds the founders of this country faced?

The people who are "making the decisions for us" are the ones we put there.
 
What other company is big enough to handle the logistics? I remember that debate, there is'nt one. If I remember correctly, there was a big fuss made over the fact that they were the only company to put in a bid (I can't back that up, just a memory I'll admit)
If we're so concerned about people leading this country who have some experience in leadership positions (as I am) where do we think they will come from? I know we love to demonize leaders of industry (and sometimes correctly so, hello Enron) but they don't all deserve it.
Oh yea, all that infrastructure, most of the labels are in French.

So did we fight Germany because we wanted the contract to rebuild their infrastructure? They didn't really even atack us anyway.
 
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