Thoughts on an animal attack?
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Rangerrich99
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This series of attacks happened just last year, just a few minutes from my home.
http://www.azfamily.com/story/35896832/bobcat-attacks-2-people-dog-in-anthem
We've also had at least three coyote/human attacks in the last couple years, and a couple black bear attacks up north.
In answer to the OP, my impression is "no," there wasn't anything else he could've done. It's all well and good to come up with an alternative plan with 20/20 hindsight, but when you're in the situation in realtime, in part you have to go with your gut. You don't know the condition of the animal, its intentions, potential risk of harm, etc. But a large cat behaving strangely is potentially very dangerous. I wasn't there, but from the story, I probably would've shot the thing as well. Better safe than sorry.
http://www.azfamily.com/story/35896832/bobcat-attacks-2-people-dog-in-anthem
We've also had at least three coyote/human attacks in the last couple years, and a couple black bear attacks up north.
In answer to the OP, my impression is "no," there wasn't anything else he could've done. It's all well and good to come up with an alternative plan with 20/20 hindsight, but when you're in the situation in realtime, in part you have to go with your gut. You don't know the condition of the animal, its intentions, potential risk of harm, etc. But a large cat behaving strangely is potentially very dangerous. I wasn't there, but from the story, I probably would've shot the thing as well. Better safe than sorry.
Hitthespot
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Your assessment is right on 5Whisky. Animal attacks happen, and just like an attack with humans, your attacker can be on you in seconds, if not faster with an animal. My wife was attacked by a dog, it happened instantly, and in one bite he almost took her arm off. When I got to the emergency room it was the most horrid thing I had ever seen. I love animals as much as the next person, however they need to act with the same respect for humans beings that we expect from each other. After seeing what happened to my wife, I would recommend being on very high alert if an animal is acting threatening in anyway, even minor. In just one second your whole life can change.
Right now, there is a report of "many" cats vanishing around here. There is also a report of a crazy old lady who traps them. There is also another report of a fox being seen in the area.
This area is perfect for fox and coyote, single bachelors. There are enough cats running loose that a fox could live on cat forever. same for coyotes.
I have personally seen foxes twice within a few hundred yards of my home, a coyote ran down my street last year, and a raccoon ate my kid's pet duck. (so I shot it) I do neighborhood watch, haven't seen that fox, but I see maybe a dozen cats every night. If it doesn't move on, there will be a jihad going on. Traps everywhere, poisoned meat, anything. It wouldn't surprise me to hear shots some nights.
On the other hand, there is also a groundhog living somewhere close by, I found the stupid thing in my carport and chased it off. It's fully probable that these people who reported a fox just saw boomer the groundhog.
This area is perfect for fox and coyote, single bachelors. There are enough cats running loose that a fox could live on cat forever. same for coyotes.
I have personally seen foxes twice within a few hundred yards of my home, a coyote ran down my street last year, and a raccoon ate my kid's pet duck. (so I shot it) I do neighborhood watch, haven't seen that fox, but I see maybe a dozen cats every night. If it doesn't move on, there will be a jihad going on. Traps everywhere, poisoned meat, anything. It wouldn't surprise me to hear shots some nights.
On the other hand, there is also a groundhog living somewhere close by, I found the stupid thing in my carport and chased it off. It's fully probable that these people who reported a fox just saw boomer the groundhog.
I love all animals. It hurts my heart to think of people shooting these exotic animals for any reason other then if they were attacking a human. And this is so rare you just never hear about it when it comes to the animals that are native to Arizona. Coyotes, mountain lions, bobcats, javalinas, wolves and yes, even black panthers (leopards).
It's very important where I live to keep a close eye on your pets because you never know when a coyote or other predator might appear. They were here before we were and they are protected by law so if you shoot one of them, especially in the city limits, you are in a heap of trouble. Hefty fine for firing a gun and for shooting a protected species. Coyotes are not protected from being trapped but you have to have a license and you absolutely cannot shoot them. You would lose your right to own a firearm if you did. Unless......it was attacking you. And even then you would have to prove it.
PS...I never knew before I read this thread that there was no such thing as a black panther. All my life I have thought there were ....black...panthers.
It's very important where I live to keep a close eye on your pets because you never know when a coyote or other predator might appear. They were here before we were and they are protected by law so if you shoot one of them, especially in the city limits, you are in a heap of trouble. Hefty fine for firing a gun and for shooting a protected species. Coyotes are not protected from being trapped but you have to have a license and you absolutely cannot shoot them. You would lose your right to own a firearm if you did. Unless......it was attacking you. And even then you would have to prove it.
PS...I never knew before I read this thread that there was no such thing as a black panther. All my life I have thought there were ....black...panthers.
Shooting inside city limits is almost always legally problematic unless there are qualifying extenuating circumstances. That situation aside, coyotes are not protected species in many (perhaps most) western states and can be killed any time of the year with no bag limit and regardless of the circumstances. Local/regional game regulations should be checked, of course.
In my state, for example, coyotes (along with mountain lions and bobcats) are considered to be nongame animals and it is legal to hunt them at any time with any legal means and with no limits. Foxes are considered to be furbearing animals and therefore some restrictions apply to hunting/trapping but they can be legally shot at any time and in any amounts on private property if they are considered to be a nuisance by a landowner.
Typical state penalties for game law violations are fines, or the confiscation of the equipment used. I'm not claiming to have done a survey of state game laws, but it would surprise me if there were many states where shooting a protected animal is a felony and therefore would result in loss of firearm rights. Federal protections are somewhat different and can carry pretty severe penalties.
When turkey or duck hunting I've been stalked by numerous bobcats and at least 2 coyote. And those are just the ones I've seen. They hear the duck or turkey call and begin the stalk. When they got close enough to realize I was bigger prey than they wanted they left.
Once when walking through a wooded area to get to a beaver pond to duck hunt I had a bobcat wait in ambush in front of me. It was a full moon and I didn't need a light to see. The cat heard my brother and I walking along the trail and probably thought we were deer. I saw a blur out of the corner of my eye only a couple of feet from my right foot. It ran between my brother and I and he got a good look at the cat.
I live, hunt, hike and camp in densely populated black bear country. I carry a handgun loaded with suitable ammo whenever in areas where bear are located. I've seen many, and many up quite close. I've never felt threatened, but there are enough incidents involving others that I'm always prepared.
Once when walking through a wooded area to get to a beaver pond to duck hunt I had a bobcat wait in ambush in front of me. It was a full moon and I didn't need a light to see. The cat heard my brother and I walking along the trail and probably thought we were deer. I saw a blur out of the corner of my eye only a couple of feet from my right foot. It ran between my brother and I and he got a good look at the cat.
I live, hunt, hike and camp in densely populated black bear country. I carry a handgun loaded with suitable ammo whenever in areas where bear are located. I've seen many, and many up quite close. I've never felt threatened, but there are enough incidents involving others that I'm always prepared.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Mountain lions are quite tasty.
stonewall50
New member
I love all animals. It hurts my heart to think of people shooting these exotic animals for any reason other then if they were attacking a human. And this is so rare you just never hear about it when it comes to the animals that are native to Arizona. Coyotes, mountain lions, bobcats, javalinas, wolves and yes, even black panthers (leopards).
It's very important where I live to keep a close eye on your pets because you never know when a coyote or other predator might appear. They were here before we were and they are protected by law so if you shoot one of them, especially in the city limits, you are in a heap of trouble. Hefty fine for firing a gun and for shooting a protected species. Coyotes are not protected from being trapped but you have to have a license and you absolutely cannot shoot them. You would lose your right to own a firearm if you did. Unless......it was attacking you. And even then you would have to prove it.
PS...I never knew before I read this thread that there was no such thing as a black panther. All my life I have thought there were ....black...panthers.
Unfortunately...these exotics are horrendous for the local animals. I live in Florida. The morons that let their pythons out are causing all kinds of hell. Same thing with idiots and lion fish. The fact is...it is part of management of land now. Personally? I would outlaw the ownership of exotics. The only animals that one could reasonably own would be domesticated animals such as dogs and farm animals. And I’d be very careful about cats (horrible for local birds).
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These are the local animals. They live among us. Oh...I did forget bears too. They cannot be owned legally.
QUOTE: JohnKSa
Hi John, well as it turns out you are correct about coyotes not being protected. At least not outside city limits. They can be trapped with a trapper's license in the city but not shot. It is illegal to discharge a firearm in the city limits in Arizona and unless there is a good reason for it the ARS is as follows:
ARS 13-3107. Unlawful discharge of firearms; exceptions; classification; definitions
A. A person who with criminal negligence discharges a firearm within or into the limits of any municipality is guilty of a class 6 felony.
It would be considered criminal negligence to fire your gun at a coyote or anything within the city limits in Arizona with the following exceptions:
1. As allowed pursuant to chapter 4 of this title.
2. On a properly supervised range.
3. To lawfully take wildlife during an open season established by the Arizona game and fish commission and subject to the limitations prescribed by title 17 and Arizona game and fish commission rules and orders. This paragraph does not prevent a city, town or county from adopting an ordinance or rule restricting the discharge of a firearm within one-fourth mile of an occupied structure without the consent of the owner or occupant of the structure. For the purposes of this paragraph:
(a) "Occupied structure" means any building in which, at the time of the firearm's discharge, a reasonable person from the location where a firearm is discharged would expect a person to be present.
(b) "Take" has the same meaning prescribed in section 17-101.
4. For the control of nuisance wildlife by permit from the Arizona game and fish department or the United States fish and wildlife service.
5. By special permit of the chief of police of the municipality.
6. As required by an animal control officer in the performance of duties as specified in section 9-499.04.
7. Using blanks.
8. More than one mile from any occupied structure as defined in section 13-3101.
9. In self-defense or defense of another person against an animal attack if a reasonable person would believe that deadly physical force against the animal is immediately necessary and reasonable under the circumstances to protect oneself or the other person.
Yes, again you are correct. The same applies here basically, with a few months off for certain species and it's the same for the fox as a furbearing animal as well as the bobcat being considered a furbearing animal here in Arizona. But even so, the Fish and Game department is very protective of coyotes etc here in the city. And also, we have what is called "Shannon's Law" which forbids the firing of a gun into the air. This law was passed as the result of a bullet being fired into the air and coming down and killing a young woman named Shannon a few years back. Because of this law officers do not condone any kind of just random shooting of guns. I was actually told by a Fish and Game officer that I couldn't kill the coyote who was killing my kitties in my backyard. That only if he attacked me could I shoot him. Anyway it turned out to be a Mexican Grey Wolf instead and there's a $20K fine for killing or trapping them.
Hi John, well as it turns out you are correct about coyotes not being protected. At least not outside city limits. They can be trapped with a trapper's license in the city but not shot. It is illegal to discharge a firearm in the city limits in Arizona and unless there is a good reason for it the ARS is as follows:
ARS 13-3107. Unlawful discharge of firearms; exceptions; classification; definitions
A. A person who with criminal negligence discharges a firearm within or into the limits of any municipality is guilty of a class 6 felony.
It would be considered criminal negligence to fire your gun at a coyote or anything within the city limits in Arizona with the following exceptions:
1. As allowed pursuant to chapter 4 of this title.
2. On a properly supervised range.
3. To lawfully take wildlife during an open season established by the Arizona game and fish commission and subject to the limitations prescribed by title 17 and Arizona game and fish commission rules and orders. This paragraph does not prevent a city, town or county from adopting an ordinance or rule restricting the discharge of a firearm within one-fourth mile of an occupied structure without the consent of the owner or occupant of the structure. For the purposes of this paragraph:
(a) "Occupied structure" means any building in which, at the time of the firearm's discharge, a reasonable person from the location where a firearm is discharged would expect a person to be present.
(b) "Take" has the same meaning prescribed in section 17-101.
4. For the control of nuisance wildlife by permit from the Arizona game and fish department or the United States fish and wildlife service.
5. By special permit of the chief of police of the municipality.
6. As required by an animal control officer in the performance of duties as specified in section 9-499.04.
7. Using blanks.
8. More than one mile from any occupied structure as defined in section 13-3101.
9. In self-defense or defense of another person against an animal attack if a reasonable person would believe that deadly physical force against the animal is immediately necessary and reasonable under the circumstances to protect oneself or the other person.
Yes, again you are correct. The same applies here basically, with a few months off for certain species and it's the same for the fox as a furbearing animal as well as the bobcat being considered a furbearing animal here in Arizona. But even so, the Fish and Game department is very protective of coyotes etc here in the city. And also, we have what is called "Shannon's Law" which forbids the firing of a gun into the air. This law was passed as the result of a bullet being fired into the air and coming down and killing a young woman named Shannon a few years back. Because of this law officers do not condone any kind of just random shooting of guns. I was actually told by a Fish and Game officer that I couldn't kill the coyote who was killing my kitties in my backyard. That only if he attacked me could I shoot him. Anyway it turned out to be a Mexican Grey Wolf instead and there's a $20K fine for killing or trapping them.
Double Naught Spy
New member
There is no actual verified record of any of these ever existing. There are a number of faked photographs on the internet and a LOT of people who have claimed to see them, some of whom have seen them more than once and more often than seeing actual mountain lions. There is no melanistic variant of Puma concolor that will give it a solid black coat.
If one was found, it would make the news. It would be a significant scientific discovery.
http://www.tahlequahdailypress.com/...cle_db970b99-4383-5306-a277-10beadd92364.html
Aguila Blanca
Staff
No.briandg said:
Arguing the legality or propriety of shooting a firearm in the city limits to stop the attack of a viscous animal, whether it's the neighbor's dog or a feral cat makes little sense to me. I, or you have the right to self-defense with a firearm in all but the most misguided communities.
Is the animal a threat to me, mine or other innocent people? I will make every effort to convince an aggressive animal to leave, including the use of nonlethal weapons. I've used pepper spray a couple of times to persuade aggressive dogs to go elsewhere. I would not be happy about using lethal force in any situation, whether man or beast. That doesn't mean I'm going to allow the pretty kitty to maul or kill me or grandma. I would not live in a place that would prefer grandma to be mauled or killed over the use of lethal force to prevent it.
Is the animal a threat to me, mine or other innocent people? I will make every effort to convince an aggressive animal to leave, including the use of nonlethal weapons. I've used pepper spray a couple of times to persuade aggressive dogs to go elsewhere. I would not be happy about using lethal force in any situation, whether man or beast. That doesn't mean I'm going to allow the pretty kitty to maul or kill me or grandma. I would not live in a place that would prefer grandma to be mauled or killed over the use of lethal force to prevent it.
Better read up on your Arizona hunting regulations. It is legal to kill coyotes in Arizona every month of the year:
https://www.azgfd.com/Hunting/Regulations/
I find it very interesting that Arizona has a state law against it; thanks for providing the information. I haven't made a careful study of it, but my understanding is that in TX, discharge of firearms inside city limits is regulated primarily by the ordinances of the municipality in question rather than at the state level. That places a limit on the severity of the offense/penalty.
But yes, with very few exceptions, it is always a violation of some sort of regulation to discharge a firearm inside city limits unless there are extenuating circumstances.
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