Those "Other" Brands

Of interesting note, Llama is being produced again. This time, they are coming out of the Philippines rather than Spain. I don't know if any of the original equipment made the voyage or not, but the Micro Max .380 seems to have a different grip angle, and just doesn't look the same as the old ones. Their full size .45's look about the same, but I don't know if parts interchangeability with other 1911's will be as hit-or-miss as all the Llamas of old.
 
The question needs to be reversed.

What are your expectations and do you think that the second tier guns will make you happy?

My expectations are that it be accurate and reliable, and those are found to diminish along with prices. Want to hit cans at ten feet? Quarters at fifty? Leave it to the grandchildren, or leave it in the tackle box?

I bought an hr double nine for my dad, he used it to tag barn rats with shot rounds. That thing is horrible but it worked.

You don't buy a second tier gun if you want first tier function and construction.
 
Briandg bring up a good question
What are your expectations and do you think that the second tier guns will make you happy?
Click to expand...

This is one of the reason that I tend to buy most expensive guns for myself personally, I'd rather buy once cry once, as they said. I'd rather have something I know will work and I know will give me pride of ownership.

With that said, one of the reasons I asked this question was to learn about other options. I own quite a few guns, and am know as somewhat of a "gun guy". People come over to my house to try out some different options before they buy... and I LOVE it. I love being able to be a resource for people.

In that regard, if there are less expensive options that I can still feel good about recommending, I'd love to explore them. But I also don't want to buy a bunch of cheapo guns that take up space and make me uncool haha.
 
Joe, that answer is so obvious that it barely deserves an answer.

Does it cost far less than a top tier? Is it made n a country with an average wage that won't buy a big Mac? Does it feel sloppy, does it have tool marks, etc? Are their designs clearly copies of established products? Is it stuck in the corner or back of the shelf while $800 guns get the bright lights and Windex?

Some companies are bottom tier makers for reasons of the general quality of what they sell. There are other companies that I'm not referring to that also qualify as bottom tier simply because they aren't the established masters of their field.
 
For further information, I expect a lot. It has to be something that I admire every time I look into the cabinet.

I'm not counting, I can think of maybe fifteen or so top sellers of quality merchandise that also qualify as top sellers. Fn, Browning, Remington, Winchester, Smith, colt, ruger, I won't even look at the gunk at the bottom of the oil pan.

I don't even bother addressing the numerous ar makers. Top or bottom, they are one trick ponies that produce a narrow range of products, and regardless of quality or reputation, the are not masters of the firearms industry. Without a wide variety of products that perform well, they are not masters of the industry.

A yugo is a third world bottom tier. General motors is top, along with honda, Toyota, Ford, maybe Hyundai...
 
canik and tristar are the same thing. tristar imports caniks and keeps the original names, just strips canik from it, that's why there is a canik t120 and a tristar t120, etc...
I've owned 2 caniks, the first needed a service trip to correct defects, after which it was reliable, but innaccurate. the second one has been so amazing that I have another canik on my wish list. newer gen guns are great, their elite line have documented issues with lighter weight, low velocity ammo.

honor guard tend to get good reviews, but for the price tag, I'm not interested.

tisas has almost no exposure, I can't seem to find anyone with firsthand knowledge on them. I know some of them are butt ugly, and not something I would add to my collection purely from aesthetic reasons.

hudson is a brand new company with a single model to their name and they are asking well over $1000, not at all anything I'm interested in.
 
You listed up some good brands the likely make good pistols. My struggle is that is I buy a mainstream brands that I will likely have a model kept in production for a while and some kind of parts/magazine supply.....and gunsmiths know how to work on them.

An Honor Guard is kind of a premium spec Glock for a std price, but if I put 10000 rounds through it and need springs, or break a part, do I just throw it away? With a less premium Glock, I go to the web and it is on its way in 5 min.

Otherwise, I do believe most of the brands you listed to make find guns.

I will disagree with the HiPoint lovers. If you just want to throw lead, HiPoint is your gun. If you want to carry, be accurate or enjoy the experience, I'd keep shopping.
 
Customer support and warranty is huge for me so I stick with the major manufacturers that offer such and am willing to pay a little bit extra.
 
I've a Canik TP9SA. Never had a miss-fire and have never had any problems with the de-cocker on top. Was only around $330 when they first came out and i got it. No regrets.
I have a Boberg 9mm which is actually a work of art temperamental on ammo. As long as you find one that works in it. Very compact. A gun in my collection that I cherish like my Semmerling 45.
 
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Not on your list but... My Son-in-law recently bought a Sccy 9mm. I went with him on it's maiden voyage. It jammed twice in 30 rounds for him. I lubed it a little and then I ran two mags through it without a problem. Surprisingly accurate to me. He shot another 50 rounds and it jammed once. I'm convinced it's him, limp wristing it. Might turn out to be a nice little pistol? I think he paid $290 for it.
 
I have quite a few of these so called 2nd tier guns. First my Canik TP9SF is one awesome handgun IMHO. Never a hiccup. So easy to shoot. And is very accurate. The only thing I don't like about it is the frame doesn't have but maybe 3/4" of a steel guide rail. Whereas alot of other polymer framed guns have a much longer steel guide rail inserted into the frame. It hasn't been a problem so far but if I had to nit pick about the gun that's my gripe. Hi Point, a good, functiona,l zinc cordless drill looking brick. But it works and hits where you point it. It's only downfall is the aweful magazines. One not on your list is Phoenix. I absolutely love my little HP22A. It goes to the range everytime I go and is still ticking along. For 100 bucks it's worth it and they stand behind them.

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Canik and Tristar are right there with the "elite" guns, Turkish guns are so underrated, I have a Sarsilmaz K2P that I paid 280 for and it is the best gun I own. The Sar guns are what the Turkish army uses.
 
The MS380 I have is made by Tisas. It is a copy of the Beretta 84. It shoots just as well as my friend's 84. Finish is not quite up to par but it also cost < half.
 
My Tisas 1911 is a plain-jane GI model. The trigger is pretty good and it always goes bang. I have no complaints.

IMHO the best bargains are military surplus type pistols. I have quite a few: Czech, Russian, Chinese, Israeli, Hungarian, Spanish, etc. They are different than Smiths, Glocks, Rugers, etc, but are not second tier. They are built to be sturdy service weapons.
 
The Sphinx SDP is a great pistol. That said, I would buy a CZ and some ammo and a quality holster and a nice pair of sights for the money.
 
Sarsilmaz. Turkish made. I have the SAR K2P. It was $279. 800 rounds through it since March. No issues. I figured I'd put a few hundred rounds through it, then slow down as the novelty wore off. WRONG! I can't put it down. Love shooting it, handling it, cleaning it. Awesome pistol. Underpriced and underrated.
 
The Canik tp9sa reportedly passed a 65,000 round endurance test by the Turkish military. It also comes with 2 18 Rd mags, 2 alternative back straps, a magazine loader, cleaning tools, and a holster all in a hard case.
 
I have an Honor Guard by Honor Defense, and I have to say it is as high quality as any gun I have used. Fit and finish, inside and out is first rate. Not one thing about it that I don't like.
 
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