This Really Gets To Me .... Hunting Caliber Discussion.

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riverwalker76

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So, I'm in my local gun shop today, and minding my own business, when a young '20-something' kid comes in to ask the owner what the best caliber for hunting deer would be.

The owner automatically says, "That's easy ... 300 WinMag!" :eek:

Now, I'm not opposed to a guy wanting to sell a gun where the ammo is $45 a box, as opposed to, a .308 that is around $20 a box. He's obviously going to make a lot of money on the ammo sale, and naturally, he wants to sell the gun.

However, where do people get this preconceived notion that .300 WinMag is the best whitetail deer caliber? I use a .300 WinMag when I'm hunting Elk! I wouldn't even consider shooting a deer with it.

Why aren't more people hunting deer with .223, 22-250, or .243 these days? I killed my first doe with a .223, and the largest caliber I've used in my lifetime for deer has been a .308, and, in that instance, it was a 350 yd. shot that I didn't feel comfortable shooting my .223 to!

Why do people feel like they have to take an African Plains cartridge deer hunting?
 
Why aren't more people hunting deer with .223, 22-250, or .243 these days?
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It's illegal to hunt with a .22 caliber round in many states.
I think people hunt with what their familiar with and what gets marketed to them.

I started with the .30-30 and then the .30-06 because they were "the" deer cartridges. A lot of that had to do with the ubiquity of the rounds and the guns chambered in them.
Over the last 40 years though I've pretty much come to believe that any standard caliber will do fine.
If I were to start over again I'd probably opt for the 6.5 Swede.
 
Well, Riverwalker76, I agree with you. I'm always up for this discussion. The way I understand it, the way it has been explained by the experts on the internet, is that when you fluff a shot with a 300 Win mag the animal lays down and expires out of awe regardless. Compared to when you fluff a shot with a .223 whereupon the animals runs around making a terrible screeching racket for half an hour, suffering, having not been given the respect it deserves.

Yes apparently that's it. A miss with a 300 is a better miss than a miss with a puny .223.

I'm being facetious of course. But I agree with you .223 is way enough gun in the right hands.

where do people get this preconceived notion that .300 WinMag is the best whitetail deer caliber?
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I can't imagine it would be the internet. Would it?

-SS-
 
Well didn't you know Deer, Elk Moose, and Bear are all but bullet proof and you need the biggest magnum you can possibly find to reliably kill one? I am surprised he was not recommended a 338RUM, after all isn't that the minimum starting caliber for squirrel shooting?:D
 
There is a correct legal caliber. It is the one that you shoot the best, that is also legal to use on the game you wish to pursue, in the state you will hunt in.

Here in WA .22 cal anything is not legal for any game animal. 6mm minimum. 257 Roberts is a fantastic whitetail cartridge, some of the new 6.5mm cartridges are very good too.

So, what gun do you want to purchase? First you figure out what you are likely to hunt. Deer only, deer and small black bear...or do you intend to try for Elk or Moose? Then how much money you wish to invest. Mostly, do you have enough money for more than one rifle?

This is the rub. Some people cannot shoot a large magnum consistently well (read flinch), some can. A properly placed shot from a lighter load will be better than a misplaced shot from a large magnum on any game.

I personally have a one shot kill on a moose at 300 yards with a 6.5 mm and I also know someone (else) that took 7 shots from a 30-30 to drop a blacktail deer at >50 yards. Shot placement is everything.
 
My stepbrother lives in a log house in West Virginia where he was born 65 years ago, so he is an honest hillbilly (the expression is not used there, nor is "log cabin"). He hunts and uses a .300 Magnum. He was a little embarassed about it. However, no one seems to use particularly old guns for hunting from what I can tell. It would be something to see a hunter using a .32-40 single-shot but that doesn't seem to happen.
 
I think the anti-magnum religion that has swept the hobby is just in style. Sure, you can kill a deer with most anything, including a 300 Win mag. I find all the anti-magnum snobbery is becoming a little obnoxious.

If it takes you more than a group to figure out if the recoil is too much for you then you are not very bright.

Otherwise, hunt with what makes you happy and leave everybody else alone.
 
I agree with the OP 1000%. If you can't kill it with a .223-.243 then chances are you can't with a .300magsuperkilleverythingandcausedeerwithin1000yardstopoopthemselves.

Also:
Because its "unethical" to take the chance of missing an animal and having them die an "unethical" death. Whenever an animal doesn't drop on spot its "unethical". A caliber smaller than .30 isn't gonna do the job.... Please. The same guys are out every bow season taking deer. How many deer drop on spot during bow season? I've killed my share and they always "suffer". I guess I'm "unethical".

.243 - .270 are perfect calibers. The catch is if you can hit the pump house. If not then you are "unethical". Practice more and you wont have to carry a 15lb rifle that dislocates your shoulder every shot.

This topic drives me crazy too. :D
 
Thinking about this a little last night, I thought I'd add a little more to the original post.

I believe that the .223 and similar cartridge are more than capable of killing any medium game here in the U.S. If the U.S. military trusts it as their primary cartridge for their purpose then why wouldn't it be good for a 100 to 140 pound deer?

It could be because 40% of the average hunters out there have never had any professional firearms training. Therefore, they need the larger caliber for a 'clean kill'. They don't care about the whole deer for meat, and they're only worried about filling their quota.

On the other hand, I choose to use a .223, because of the small entry hole. Every deer that I kill gets completely processed. I clean and tan the hides which I take to rendezvous for trade, along with the stomach, sinew, and leg bones. The brains get used for the tanning process, and every bit of meat I can salvage from the deer is used for my families consumption. A nice sized doe will keep us in game meat for quite some time.

So, to sum it up, I have a reason for using the smaller caliber. I just can't understand why some individuals choose to use 'shoulder fired artillery' on such a small animal.
 
I'm of "slight build", and when I bought my 270 I nearly regretted it because of the recoil. Two range sessions later and I'd adjusted to it, and enjoy it (whew).

I sure am glad that no gun store clone ever talked me into a 300 win mag!

Sent from my Ally using Tapatalk
 
If your shot placement is so poor that you have to use a small caliber cartridge to avoid meat damage then I suppose there is a case for using something on the low end of the range.
 
Be careful or before you know it, all hunters will have to take a week long professional training course to get a license. A hunting license is very difficult to obtain in some countries because of stringent requirements, although I don't believe it is about gun control. It is more like the modern trend of "professionalism" where you need a permit or license to do just about anything. And there may be the question of revenue, too.
 
Dont kill the oracle. The kid asked the wrong question. He should have asked which calibers are effective for taking deer. His question was looking for a single caliber and the shop owner replied with what he thought was best.
 
It's illegal to hunt with a .22 caliber round in many states.
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Again it is legal in more states than not. Most states don't put caliber restrictions on hunting. A lot just state "centerfire" which makes the .17 and .204 calibers legal. Common sense hopefully will take over and make most hunters pick a decent caliber.

There are stories like the OP's all over the nation. What you hear in a Gun Shop should be taken with a grain of salt. I probably would have said something like .270 Win with the .30-06 second as an ideal deer round.
 
Just as a slight aside, it appears here in Aussie that the trend away from magnums in the 'States, - if I have interpreted some earlier comments right - has not hit us yet.

Magnums are all the rage here. Blokes will tell you a 7mm Rem Mag is THE gun for pigs and goats. A 300WM should be used for fallow deer, which I believe are about the same size as a white tail.

Personally I haven't given in and a 270 Win is the biggest I own.

Interesting that there's a trend away from magnums in the US. Our trends often follow yours so it will be interesting to see what happens.
 
When I worked in a gun shop, we used to get asked the "best cartridge/rifle/scope" question all the time. My standard answer was 30-06 bolt action with a 4X scope will do nicely for just about anything on the planet. Is it a bit undergunned if you are going after grizzly? Maybe, but as pointed out above, a miss with a 300 WinMag is just like a miss with a 30-06, and most people will shoot a 30-06 better than their 300 WinMag because there is a substantial difference in recoil and muzzle blast. Oh, and keep in mind, many African nations use the 30-06 for elephant culling, so it is capable of much more than it is given credit for. But even the 30-06 is way overgunned, a little over a century ago, 32-20 was considered a good deer round, and a .30-30 was a high-powered rifle capable of amazing feats and hits out to 400-500 yds. A little more practice would serve most hunters well, and the power of the rifles carried would go down accordingly.
 
First of all I have yet to find any kind of game in alabama that could not be killed with a 22lr much less 5.56 and if it really came down to it then a 308 would be all I would ever need up north. Saying that I have never had the privilege to hunt brown bear or elk but I would be comfortable carrying my ar15 with me :)
 
7x64 is the universal cartridge for me, so I which I could afford a bergstutzen in 9.3x74R over 7x65R, just in case a bear comes for my kill.
 
I guess it depends on your location

Here in North Central Idaho, .270, 30-06,7mm Rem. Mag, and 300 Win. Mag. are the most popular for Deer/Elk. Yeah, some shot .243, and 25.06, and some ladies shot a .308, but from my experience 35 plus years of hunting in this area, the first 4 I mentioned are by far the most popular. Many shots are at 200 plus yards, most hunters like a flat shooting rifle. The deer here too are bigger than some of the southern ones you see on T.V. ( Body Mass) Noithing wrong with a 22-250, or even a .223 or 30-30 if you are close or are taking smaller animals. I have a friend in Texas that does quite well with a smaller rifle. The deer weigh less, most of the shots are at 100 or so, no problem. Most of us in my hunting group sight in @ 200-250. This usually means around 2" high @ 100, and therefore you only have minimal hold-over @ 350-400. There are quite a few canyons here where it is typical to shoot from one side to the other from a decent distance. Different needs for different areas.
 
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