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This is Why You Should Research Your Firearms Instructors
- Thread starter Dragline45
- Start date
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
I wrote an earlier reply to this thread and wasn't able to post as it was closed, but will try to recreate my previous points here.
First, if you are shooting at the range every day because it is your job, you probably do some things to keep sane/entertained that aren't the most eficient/practical use of time. Check out Tiger Woods commercial here. Not the same range, but the same idea.
There are situations where leaving the area is not an option. The vehicle being disabled is one, but there are others. Many don't pertain to civilian CCW in the US, but some do. You could be faced with a situation where making a stand is the only option.
The ?drill? he did there of leaving the vehicle and going to the other side hanging out and shooting from under the door doesn't pertain to many situations, but it did involve practicing a number of awkward movements with a firearm. If you are training a lot then you should be training from less than perfect situations. I once found myself hanging off the edge of a small bridge in a position not too dissimilar to the one he was practicing shooting from the rear passenger door.
The ?tactic? actually makes a lot of sense in one situation. A cheaply/poorly armored vehicle. I have been in/around a number of cheaply/poorly armored light trucks and SUVs. In one case steel plates were welded inside the doors and a few key components of the engine compartment. No changes to glass because lexan was more expensive and less available. Lots of places that weren't armored, but the doors all had nice big chunks of steel backing the majority of the paneled area.
From where he seemed to be directing his shots the target was at the drivers one or two o'clock. In an unarmored vehicle the y shaped space between the door and vehicle puts all the steel in the engine compartment and maybe even some steel from the wheel in between him and the target. Great, but it really doesn't give him much protection of his vitals as they are all going to go above that steel. Further, the steel below and even angle of the hood is going to cause ricochets upward towards the vitals. If there are rifle rounds incoming the position isn't great.
If that rear passenger door has a steel plate in it, he would get much better cover than from the window/door. Further, if the assailant has tunnel vision looking through rifle sights or an optic and is concentrating on the driver door expecting him to pop up, he MAY not notice that passenger door opening right away.
The roll out of the car? ... ... I got nothing there.
Dropping the gun before making the roll? If he hadn't, most of you would be complaining about how he muzzled the cameraman.
Did the intro to the clip describe a scenario that matched the response? No.
Did this instructor grasp any of this in his video? Not sure. I'm guessing not.
Did he relay it to the audience? Certainly not. So, the sentiment that this is "bad" training can't really be refuted. I don't think the video is totally pointless and has nothing to teach us though. I've learned as much from bad managers as good ones. You can learn as much from "bad" training resources as "good" training resources IMO.
Personally, I'd try shooting from under the vehicle even if it only offered me shots at the lower body of the target. Faster, less visible, and they probably won't be putting rounds anywhere close to me until I've had chances to take at least a few shots.
First, if you are shooting at the range every day because it is your job, you probably do some things to keep sane/entertained that aren't the most eficient/practical use of time. Check out Tiger Woods commercial here. Not the same range, but the same idea.
There are situations where leaving the area is not an option. The vehicle being disabled is one, but there are others. Many don't pertain to civilian CCW in the US, but some do. You could be faced with a situation where making a stand is the only option.
The ?drill? he did there of leaving the vehicle and going to the other side hanging out and shooting from under the door doesn't pertain to many situations, but it did involve practicing a number of awkward movements with a firearm. If you are training a lot then you should be training from less than perfect situations. I once found myself hanging off the edge of a small bridge in a position not too dissimilar to the one he was practicing shooting from the rear passenger door.
The ?tactic? actually makes a lot of sense in one situation. A cheaply/poorly armored vehicle. I have been in/around a number of cheaply/poorly armored light trucks and SUVs. In one case steel plates were welded inside the doors and a few key components of the engine compartment. No changes to glass because lexan was more expensive and less available. Lots of places that weren't armored, but the doors all had nice big chunks of steel backing the majority of the paneled area.
From where he seemed to be directing his shots the target was at the drivers one or two o'clock. In an unarmored vehicle the y shaped space between the door and vehicle puts all the steel in the engine compartment and maybe even some steel from the wheel in between him and the target. Great, but it really doesn't give him much protection of his vitals as they are all going to go above that steel. Further, the steel below and even angle of the hood is going to cause ricochets upward towards the vitals. If there are rifle rounds incoming the position isn't great.
If that rear passenger door has a steel plate in it, he would get much better cover than from the window/door. Further, if the assailant has tunnel vision looking through rifle sights or an optic and is concentrating on the driver door expecting him to pop up, he MAY not notice that passenger door opening right away.
The roll out of the car? ... ... I got nothing there.
Dropping the gun before making the roll? If he hadn't, most of you would be complaining about how he muzzled the cameraman.
Did the intro to the clip describe a scenario that matched the response? No.
Did this instructor grasp any of this in his video? Not sure. I'm guessing not.
Did he relay it to the audience? Certainly not. So, the sentiment that this is "bad" training can't really be refuted. I don't think the video is totally pointless and has nothing to teach us though. I've learned as much from bad managers as good ones. You can learn as much from "bad" training resources as "good" training resources IMO.
Personally, I'd try shooting from under the vehicle even if it only offered me shots at the lower body of the target. Faster, less visible, and they probably won't be putting rounds anywhere close to me until I've had chances to take at least a few shots.
Hondo
has been added to your Queue at position #23
Last edited:
Willie Lowman
New member
I watched the video again with the volume muted and came up with my own narrative.
start: (0:52) truck is disabled, engine dead/tires flat it won't go. Taking fire, driver's first reaction is to get out of truck and get to cover.
(0:55) To much open ground between truck and cover, get back into the truck for what cover/concealment it offers.
(1:00) Sitting up in the truck to return fire is a bad idea. open the passenger side door to provide concealment. (this is risky and questionable. The badguy would probably see the door open. the badguy can probably shoot through the door. Mr. Lloyd is gambling that the badguy is expecting him to stand up and get out, thus the badguy -might- be aiming high. Mr Lloyd goes low.
(1:08) shooting one handed under passenger door.
(1:15) tactical roll-flop. Do you know a better way to get out of a truck when you are laying on the floorboard/hanging half out the bottom side of the door??? Didn't think so. (if Mr. Lloyd was really under fire I doubt he would put down his pistol)
-------------------------------------------------
So with a little bit of imagination, this silly video can start to represent the drastic and desperate choices and moves someone would make if they got pinned down in a extended cab Tundra.
start: (0:52) truck is disabled, engine dead/tires flat it won't go. Taking fire, driver's first reaction is to get out of truck and get to cover.
(0:55) To much open ground between truck and cover, get back into the truck for what cover/concealment it offers.
(1:00) Sitting up in the truck to return fire is a bad idea. open the passenger side door to provide concealment. (this is risky and questionable. The badguy would probably see the door open. the badguy can probably shoot through the door. Mr. Lloyd is gambling that the badguy is expecting him to stand up and get out, thus the badguy -might- be aiming high. Mr Lloyd goes low.
(1:08) shooting one handed under passenger door.
(1:15) tactical roll-flop. Do you know a better way to get out of a truck when you are laying on the floorboard/hanging half out the bottom side of the door??? Didn't think so. (if Mr. Lloyd was really under fire I doubt he would put down his pistol)
-------------------------------------------------
So with a little bit of imagination, this silly video can start to represent the drastic and desperate choices and moves someone would make if they got pinned down in a extended cab Tundra.