This is why I carry a REVOLVER!

agtman said:
There's no corresponding immediate-action remedy that gets a locked-up revolver unlocked and back in the fight without a trip to the nearest gunsmith. :rolleyes:
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Um, actually, there is.
Check to see if ejector rod is screwed in completely, open cylinder, dump ammo and sweep for debris under the star with your finger, reload (with different ammo), resume gunfight. It takes a second or two longer that trb, but there's no trip to the gunsmith involved and the procedure was commonly taught.
Most people were never formally trained just aren't aware of it because it's so rarely needed. ;)
 
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1911_Hardball said:
Um, actually, there is.
Check to see if ejector rod is screwed in completely, open cylinder, dump ammo and sweep for debris under the star with your finger, reload (with different ammo), resume gunfight. It takes a second or two longer that trb, but there's no trip to the gunsmith involved and the procedure was commonly taught.
Most people were never formally trained just aren't aware of it because it's so rarely needed. ;)
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That defineitly works. The only problem there is, if the ejector rod has backed out, and its shrouded, your probably done right there, as you wont be opening the cylinder to go any further, and you wont likely be getting it backed down to clear, with just your fingers.

I think one of the biggest issues I see with the revolvers is how people reload them, and most dont understand theres even a problem there.

Most of it is due to where and how they are shooting, and they seem to be more interested in recovering the brass, than anything else, and not really taking advantage of a training opportunity.

You should be dumping the brass with the muzzle up, and a smart rap on the ejection rod, and let the brass fall. That pretty much eliminates crap getting under the extractor star, which, even just a tiny bit, can cause you all sorts of misery.

Ejecting the rounds muzzle down, is slow, awkward, and allows any unburnt powder and other crap still in the case, to fall under the star as it comes out of the cylinder.

If youre doing the later, sooner or later, and especially if you arent thorough with you cleaning, the trigger/cylinder will start becoming hard to cycle, and even binding and the cylinder becomes hard to close, and even not lock up.
 
AK103K said:
That defineitly works. The only problem there is, if the ejector rod has backed out, and its shrouded, your probably done right there, as you wont be opening the cylinder to go any further, and you wont likely be getting it backed down to clear, with just your fingers.
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As a practical matter, when under fire, you're right. You're probably out of service. However, if you have a shrouded ejector rod it is possible to screw it back in by wedging something between the rod and the housing, pulling the hammer back far enough to disengage the cylinder stop and rotating the cylinder.
Are you going to be able to do that in the middle of a gunfight? Maybe, maybe not, but the idea commonly shared by those who have only a casual familiarity with revolvers that no malfunction can be cleared in the field and requires the attention of a gunsmith just isn't accurate.
Debris under the star is the only thing that has ever caused a seize up for me. It's happened a few times over the years but never in a clean gun in the first 50-100 rounds. It's only happened during a lengthy range session.
 
Tap, rack Bang is a first response to a failure to fire and is only effective for the most basic problem, bad round, failure to feed something of that sort, it is not going to help a major issue such as a locked up slide. The first response to a failure to fire in a revolver for a basic problem such as a bad round is to pull the trigger again. Now tell me, which is quicker, tap rack bang, or pull the trigger? There is no quick action to fix a major issue with a revolver, just as there is no quick action to fix a major issue with a semi automatic. No reason one has to be better than the other, totally different mechanisms but either one should serve well.
 
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I say there is ony one thing to do if either type of gun malfunctions in a firefight ... forget about it instantly and go for your backup piece.
Don't have a backup piece? Have "I screwed up" engraved on your tombstone.

But the reality is that in an actual firefight, by the time you even realize your gun has malfunctioned you will most likely be shot a couple times.
I just hope and pray I am never there to find out.
 
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jimku said:
I say there is ony one thing to do if either type of gun malfunctions in a firefight ... forget about it instantly and go for your backup piece.
Don't have a backup piece? Have "I screwed up" engraved on your tombstone.

But the reality is that in an actual firefight, by the time you even realize your gun has malfunctioned you will most likely be shot a couple times.
I just hope and pray I am never there to find out.
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That is, in reality, the most likely scenario.
 
That is, in reality, the most likely scenario.
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I'd say its likely, if you're facing a Terminator class unstoppable killing machine who never has any problems of his own.

Looking at real world reports people like that do exist, but the odds of meeting one are (I think) essentially incalculable. Its much much more common to see reports where the bad guys also had problems of their own.

Can you count on that saving you? No. SO, plan for the worst, hope for the best and one is seldom disappointed.

That being said, I think emphasis on a second or two or fractions of second saying they will get you killed is going a bit over the top. They could be vital, but assuming that they are always life and death vital is too much for me.

Of course that's just my totally unqualified opinion. Last time I was in a gun fight was almost 50 years ago, and my "defensive weapon" was a belt fed .30 cal.
 
Well, my plan is to practice the very best situational awareness I can, keep it well honed and always on my mind, try my very best to stay out of places where any kind of protest or riot could erupt, always have a backup gun that is just as quick to access as my main gun, keep both of them properly maintained, cleaned and lubed and hope I never have to find out. One thing I do know: I can easily empty any handgun I own in under two seconds. I can only assume that any bad guy with a gun can do the same. So if I am ever in an active firefight, and my gun malfunctions, odds are very high that I will be dead. Odds aren't the best even if it doesn't malfunction. And that's my totally unqualified opinion.
 
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JohnKSa said:
Yes they do.

1. People don't get a good grip on them. They might be firing them one-handed while they normally fire them with two hands at the range. All autopistols are sensitive to grip. Some from limp-wristing, but all of them can be induced to malfunction if you get your fingers in the wrong place while firing. You can accidentally drop a mag, put the safety on, push up on the slide release, foul the slide, etc.

2. I think a lot of people don't really bother to test them much, if at all. So when they need them, they're firing a gun they haven't fired much, it at all, and using ammo they haven't tested much, if at all.

Practice with your self-defense firearms. Shoot them one-handed. Shoot them with your self-defense ammo. Practice at home getting a good grip on the gun when you pick it up or when you draw.
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I started with bullseye shooting, so shooting 1-handed DA has not been a problem for me. I also did PPC competition back when dinosaurs walked the earth, so shooting 1-hand strong hand-weak hand has also not been a problem. I still practice this. The advantage to me in shooting one handed is that I expose less of myself if shooting from barricade.
 
This situation is the best answer to those 2nd amendment haters question "why do you gun people have to have several guns, why isn't one enough?". This is why. That guy would have been better off if there were other handguns nearby rather than grabbing the rifle.

That's why people train off hand/weak hand. Have a semi in the right hand and a revolver in the left. Double your chances.
 
In my experience, the three most common reasons for a semi-automatic firearm to malfunction are user error, incompatible ammunition, and worn/damaged magazines. User error would include issues like limp wristing, forgetting to chamber a round, failure to disengage a safety, or improper loading. Incompatible ammunition could include that which is out-of-spec (too long or too short OAL), poor quality (misfire, hangfire, excessively dirty), not loaded to appropriate power level for the firearm, or using a projectile shape incompatible with the gun's feed cycle. Worn/damaged magazines is pretty self-explanatory and would include issues like weak mag springs, bent feed lips, worn mag catch notches, and broken followers or baseplates. Fortunately, most of these problems are usually fairly easy to fix assuming one has access to spare magazines, better ammunition, and/or can correctly diagnose and remedy the user error in a timely manner.

If a revolver fails, however, it's more often due to mechanical issues like parts breakage, being excessively filthy, or ammunition of extremely poor quality/grossly out-of-spec (backed out primers, overpressure, split cases, squibs, etc), and these usually cannot be remediated without the use of tools and/or a gunsmith. In my experience, while issues like powder residue under the extractor and backed out ejector rods can cause problems, they usually don't occur without warning nor do they come on suddenly enough to prevent a hitherto clean and well-maintained revolver from successfully firing the contents of its cylinder. Usually, when such issues arise, they start with signs and symptoms like a stiff, gritty trigger pull and/or the cylinder requiring more force than usual to open. It's usually only when these signs are ignored and the shooter continues to fire the revolver for extended range sessions that things progress to rendering the revolver completely inoperable.

The problem is that people assume that the catastrophic malfunctions that might render a revolver inoperable are equally or more likely to occur as compared to those which are easily remediated in a semi-auto. It is also assumed that semi-autos are completely immune from issues that are not user-remediable, this has not been the case in my experience. I have had exactly one instance in a revolver (broken firing pin) and one instance in a semi-auto (out-of-spec cartridge stuck in the chamber) than rendered the gun completely inoperable and was not easily user-remediable. I've also had issues with revolver (backed out primers) that I was able to quickly and easily remediate.

I hypothesize that some focus so much on revolvers' supposed "unreliability" because their malfunctions are not easily remediable and thus more memorable. A feed malfunction or misfire in a semi-auto is little more than an annoyance at the range because it is easily remediable and does not bring an immediate end to the range session. Thus, unless one keeps detailed logs of their shooting (which I'd venture to guess most don't) an easily remediated malfunction is more likely to be forgotten than one which requires a trip to the gunsmith or back to the factory. Semi-auto malfunctions which aren't easily remediated are usually remembered just as well and become just as infamous as revolver breakages (ala CZ-75 broken slide stops, Officer's Model 1911's sending their recoil springs downrange, and Glock KB's).

Thus, I have to say that in my experience, while a semi-auto's malfunction is likely to be user-remediable, they are not universally so and a quality revolver is less likely to have a malfunction in the first place.
 
This is a debate that will never end, of the sort I usually avoid. Despite knowing better, I offer the following, which is based on many decades of owning, shooting, and servicing both revolvers and autos.

Autos have more failure modes than autos, some of which are not susceptible of prevention though ordinary maintenance. That said, if either is properly maintained, the failure frequency of either can be sustained at a low enough level to make them a reliable defense mechanism.

Pick whichever you shoot better and learn how to maintain it.
 
I've had auto's jam, not all, but I also watched my brother take his brand new Taurus 605 revolver and fire two rounds and it lock up tight, we had to send it back to the factory for repairs so a revolver will as well. Lubrication, cleaning and at least a hundred rounds through one firing in different patterns, single shot, double tap, three quickly, etc... then I feel comfortable to carry the piece.
 
If you shoot both quite a bit you will find more malfunctions with the semi than with the revolver. The semi holds more rounds, that is the only advantage over the revolver. I don't carry a reload for my revolver so faster reloads is not an issue for me. I am 99.99% sure the 5 in the gun are going to all fire if needed. The only real possibility of a failure of those 5 is a bad round of ammo. Never had anything break in a revolver, never. I've only had a couple semis actually break, had the ejector on a 1911 break, had the bottom of a mag. fall off and dump the ammo on the ground, I've had magazines puke the ammo out in the mag pouch. Whichever you carry shoot them a lot to prove they work, if a semi, test your carry magazines, use them a lot, the mags can surprise you at the wrong time. I have one semi that had the large paddle on the safety, the holster would disengage it. Put my M&P .22 on my G19 holster and it spit out the magazine. Had a pin in the sight a Colt Gold Cup break in half while shooting(roll pin) got a solid pin in it now. Had a shock buff break in a 1911 gun, my fault for putting it in there, it tied the gun up, had to take the slide off to get it out. There are more things to tie up a semi. There is just less to go wrong with a fixed sight revolver than with a semi. I do have semis I would carry if I wanted to carry in a belt holster. I would prolly carry a reload in case the mag in the gun fell out at the wrong time.
 
I carry a 5-shot 357 snubbie strong side and a Bersa Thunder Plus 16-round 380 in a cross-draw holster for backup. Doubt very much if I would ever need the Bersa, but having it there is 100% peace of mind, it is EXTREMELY reliable ... so far.
 
As a retired cop of over 40 years experience,(I started in 1975, Retired in 2017) I carried revolvers and autos on duty throughout my career. Depending on the agency rules my options were generous to "only the issued pistol". Because I was a shooting enthusiast and always practiced on my own as well as agency time, competed and reloaded my own ammo I have had a lot of trigger time with various makes and models. Both semi-auto and revolvers in my possession have had both minor and major malfunctions.

One that to me was a bit extreme was a training session with my duty Colt Trooper MkIII. The trigger broke clean off the revolver during a course of fire. That was one dead revolver. I replaced the trigger and insured it was working properly then sold that revolver down the river.

I have had other revolver issues similar to many mentioned in posts above mine as well a plethora of issues with the various semi-autos I have owned over the years. Hell I stopped a range session today with a like new Walther P1 when using 124 grain NATO ball ammo I had major jams out of 4 magazines and never loaded the 5th magazine. I simply parked the gun. Stuff happens and no one can declare an ultimate answer based on a limited information news article of a single incident.

I own and carry revolvers and autos because they do what I need them to do. Neither is best but both have advantages. Choose wisely based on your needs.
 
arent we supposed to get along? Thought the trenches in world war one and the constant hellish tide of blood and mud proved that a semi auto can get along with a revolver in a battle.

Reduced round count is the only issue here, and well, ease of reloading. Simply makes a man with a 6 or 7 shot revolver more careful in aiming. Ever notice how many crime scene photos from the prohibition gang wars always seem to have gangsters who got shot in the head?
 
PocketCamera said:
.................... Reduced round count is the only issue here, and well, ease of reloading. Simply makes a man with a 6 or 7 shot revolver more careful in aiming. Ever notice how many crime scene photos from the prohibition gang wars always seem to have gangsters who got shot in the head?
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Revolver people tend to subscribe to the marksmanship method of defensive shooting rather than the spray-and-pray method.
 
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