This guy's really following the Adolf Hitler playbook closely...

Where is Chavez at? Has civilian disarmament happened yet?

I expect we'll be seeing puff pieces from Hollyweird in a couple years, and hearing horror stories from refugees. That would fit the pattern.
 
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The fundamental difference between Venezuela now and Hitler's Germany then is the lack of a military juggernaut, although I understand Chavez has aspirations in that direction.

TC
 
Leatherneck,

Give him time.

When Hitler began his rise to power the German military was still very weak and bound by the contraints of the Treaty of Versailles.

It took a few years for the German armaments industry to really roll into high gear to the point where Hitler could even think about renouncing the treaty publically.

Chavez came to power with a decently sized but questionably equipped and led military.

Because of Venezuela's oil wealth, rebuilding the economy through defecit spending isn't really necessary as it was in Germany, so the relative time lapse won't be as severe.

The saving grace is that Venezuela has no native arms industry to speak of.
 
I believe exactly squat regarding the MSM views on Chavez.

Here is the analogue to the RCTV situation:

CNN is owned by Ted Turner. Say that Ted Turner and 50 of his richest friends in the media don't like the President of the United States, so much so that he directs CNN management to run the following stories (real stories from RCTV, by the way):

"Revolt against the President!"

"The President directly ordered the murder of innocent civilians!"

"The Presidency is illegitimate!"

"Military officers should arrest and detain the President!"

Now, this is the biggest media outlet in the country. This is their CNN and ABC combined. They are running the previous four stories, without interruption, for three months straight. CNN starts printing protest signs saying "Assassinate the President" and handing them out from their offices in New York (RCTV also did this). Riots start, centered around the CNN offices. Rocks and Molotov cocktails get thrown, and a few people get shot.

CNN also goes out and finds retired General Tommy Franks, and starts running the following stories:

"General Tommy Franks is the legitimate leader of the United States!"

"Install General Tommy Franks as President!"

You are President Bush. What do you do?

The whole "Chavez = teh Hitlar!!!1!" meme is for suckers.

(Note to the Secret Service: I am saying the above to illustrate a point. In no way do I advocate or sympathize with anyone who espouses the assassination of the President. Thanks for listening.)
 
You don't really remember the Watergate era, do you?

There was LOTS of questions about the legitimacy of the Presidency in many major news outlets during that time.

Many were calling for Nixon's forcible removal from office.

I don't know if any ever called for the military to do so, but there were calls for the FBI to arrest the President.

How many American news outlets were shut down at the personal behest of Richard Nixon over such reports?

None.


"The whole "Chavez = Hitlar... meme is for suckers."

Note that I didn't say that Chavez IS Hitlar. Who the hell was Hitlar, by the by?

I said that he's taking a page out of Hitler's playbook.

One of the first things that Adolf Hitler did after seizing virtual dictatorial powers through act of legislature (sound familiar) was to begin attacking those elements in the German press that were anti-Nazi.

Silencing your opposition is frequently among a naiscent dictator's earliest steps.
 
you have to give the people a scapegoat for their problems so you can be a hero to them by attacking the perceived scapegoat.
 
Silencing your opposition is frequently among a naiscent dictator's earliest steps.
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and

you have to give the people a scapegoat for their problems so you can be a hero to them by attacking the perceived scapegoat.
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:D

WildwheneverilosefaithinpeoplesintellectualcapabilitiesthesetwoguysrestoreitAlaska
 
Because of Venezuela's oil wealth, rebuilding the economy through defecit spending isn't really necessary as it was in Germany, so the relative time lapse won't be as severe.
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The saving grace is that Venezuela has no native arms industry to speak of
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I bet there are tons of Eastern European nations just lining up to give them arms for oil. Not to mention the (iirc) largest consumer of oil, China
 
Did'nt he already build a plant to make or assemble AK rifles ?
I think he needs some attention.
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Yes. He purchased 100K AK-103s and has licensed a Kalashnikov factory there.

But I suppose being a peaceful leftist socialist, he'd going to make only the special pink versions that shoot peppermints and rainbows, right?

The thing is, though, he's been seizing billions in assets from very powerful people who would likely not at all mind paying someone a million or so to have Chavez accidentally run into a .308 with his head. Screwing the shadow financiers of the world is not a good way to ensure your own survival.
 
"Umm. They are making their own AKs now, is what I have read."

Yeah, I know. A nearly 60-year-old rifle design.

Cutting edge to say the least.

By this time in Hitler's career, however, Germany was well on its way towards making some of the most advanced air, sea, and land weapons in the world.

Chavez will buy his armaments, but he won't be able to buy or build armaments of the type/quality that Nazi Germany managed to develop.
 
Sounds like the good ole USA needs to ship in very large amount of ammunition for Dictator Chavez. Give him some randomly double charged rounds. When he decides to go on a rampage he will find his little rifles blowing up.;)
 
"Umm. They are making their own AKs now, is what I have read."

Yeah, I know. A nearly 60-year-old rifle design.

Cutting edge to say the least.
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Maybe so, but remember- our nation's primary rifle is pushing 40. Age means little (when 900 years old, look as good, you will not...) if the design is fundamentally sound. It throws bullets far enough accurately enough (the AK isn't a bullseye or sniper rifle, but then, it doesn't need to be).

Venezuela isn't making the items that would make them a true worry (missiles, ships, planes), but enough rifles can make them a real pain in the rear. Especially since they can be put in the hands of revolutionaries in neighboring nations.

While their politics is their problem, if they start stirring the pot in neighboring nations, they will have to be dealt with (only if and when that happens... I think we need to have learned a lesson about pre-emptive wars and regime replacements).
 
The thing is, though, he's been seizing billions in assets from very powerful people who would likely not at all mind paying someone a million or so to have Chavez accidentally run into a .308 with his head.
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:D Nicely said.

From what I've heard, the remaining "independent" station (GlobalVision) has been told to tow the party line or face the same fate as RCTV. My guess is that Brasil will be his next target for the socialist revolution.

The key items to watch are his military spending as a percentage of GNP (probably kickbacks from oil) and his foreign policy towards his neighbors. A rise in socalist activities in neighboring countries tied to Chavez is bound to get lots of powerful people irked at him.
 
"Maybe so, but remember- our nation's primary rifle is pushing 40."

The AK was designed/redesigned to be easily fabricated not only in advanced industrial nations, but also entities whose heavy manufacturing capabilities are essentially nil.

The earliest Soviet AKs had receivers machined from bar stock. As redesigned for easier fabrication, the receiver can be made from cut and milled flat stock that is then pressed.

Virtually any factory that has the capability to bend and weld metal can make a servicable AK design.

The point remains that while Venezuela has virtually no native arms industry their oil money gives them the ability to rapidly arm themselves.
 
Well if there are folks here on TFL that do not know. Dictator Chavez makes money off the backs of Americans through CITGO gasoline. Needless to say, do not by CITGO gas. That name may be changing soon. To something or other Petrol. Let's keep dollars out of his pocket.
 
Chavez is trying to emulate his hero, Fidel Castro, not Hitler.

Venezuela has gone downhill since Chavez took office. The poor class has increased greatly, the middle class has all but vanished, and the upper class has been greatly restricted. The anti-Chavez sentiment has been in Venezuela all along, but it was never allowed to be displayed. NOW, that sentiment is starting to increase greatly, and even the "thugs" in the military and police agencies are beginning to question Chavez' motives.
 
The point remains that while Venezuela has virtually no native arms industry their oil money gives them the ability to rapidly arm themselves.
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Very much so. I was just pointing out that even though they're only building the AK for themselves right now (and yes, it is remarkably simple), that's enough to be able to raise a stink. I might have misunderstood your remarks though.

Our dependence on foreign oil reminds me of the Soviet saying (I think it was Lenin) to the effect of "the capitalists will sell you the rope you use to hang them." We're giving the money to nations that use it to fund terror or their own dictatorial tendencies.

Interestingly, Citgo gas is becoming a thing of the past in the US. It seems that Venezuela was needing to BUY outside oil/gas to supply their US stations with fuel. Factor in Chavez's dislike for the US, and they are departing most of the US market. Around here all the Citgos have been rebranded over the past few months. I can't vouch for other areas, but yes, if you have a Citgo around you, I'd buy gas elsewhere if possible.
 
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