This bites. Do I risk courts-martial over non-compliance?

G

Gewehr98

New member
I guess I'm heading over to the Staff Judge Advocate's office tomorrow, and see where this is covered in the UCMJ. I'm a C&R FFL holder with a large collection, residing in off-base government housing, and I've never seen this before. I knew the Army started doing it, but now I wonder if I should request a transfer to off-base commercial housing, or just bite my lip and answer "What guns?" I still don't understand what registration does to prevent the evils that are listed, somebody please clue me in...
Here's the document I received stuck in my door when I got home from the squadron:

MEMORANDUM FOR ALL BASE HOUSING OCCUPANTS

FROM- 45 SW/CC
1201 Edward H. White 11 Street, MS 7100
Patrick AFB FL 32925-3299

Subject- Privately Owned Firearm Registration and Child Access Prevention

1. This memorandum describes the registration requirements and child access prevention policy concerning privately owned firearms as directed by Lieutenant General XXXX X. XXXX, Vice-Commander of Headquarters Air Force Space Command. In several instances, dependent children of command personnel have taken firearms into schools, creating a potentially lethal situation. We must ensure our personnel and their families never experience a devastating incident due to an improperly stored firearm.

2. 1 have directed the 45th Security Forces Commander to incorporate the commandwide standards for registration and control of firearms into a local installation policy. We have set a deadline to meet this goal by 1 November 2000. Firearms may be kept in on-base housing quarters but must be registered on base with your unit and the security forces. Each member residing on Patrick Air Force Base will need to complete a firearm registration form (AF Form 1314). This can be accomplished through your unit commanders support staff.

3. CHILD ACCESS PREVENTION POLICY: Each military sponsor residing in government quarters will ensure firearms in the house are in a properly constructed and locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other safety device. Military sponsors will ensure firearms stored in gun cabinets with glass windows will have an additional level of security in place (i.e., trigger locks, wire mesh, etc.) to prevent access if the glass is broken. The bolt may be removed and stored in a locked area separated from the weapon to meet this requirement. Ammunition can be stored in a locked drawer of a gun cabinet, stored in a gun safe or any location that is secure from a child or other unauthorized individual(s). The intent of this policy is not to prohibit the use of firearms by authorized users, but to ensure the safety of residents and our children do not have access to firearms without adult consent and supervision.

XXXXXX X. XXXXX
Brigadier General, USAF
 
I would think if the house is gov't property, they could establish and enforce any rules they want. A private rental would have constitutional protection, but doubt if the gov't has to observe any of the rules that they are sworn to uphold.

I would get into privately owned housing.

Time for Gen'l XXXXXXX X XXXXXXX to be hung.
 
"Sell" those guns, today, and keep them sold until you get moved into private housing. I wouldn't register them.
 
While in the Army I lived in a BEQ and was not allowed to keep my guns there.....sooooo I kept them at a friend's house, another Sgt., that was married and lived "off post".
Don't violate that order and risk your career.

Good luck. :)

------------------
"Lead, follow or get the HELL out of the way."
 
Live in govt quarters, live by their rules. Both Lavan and DorGunR have legal solutions that will work.

Best of luck, Sam
 
You did not give your rank nor am I asking for it. Remember that you are subjec to the UCMJ. By that you do not have some the rights that a civilian has. Do not lie about the guns you own. Remember the female B-52 pilot, an officer, that lied? She was dismised from the service for lying not what the press said she was. BTW, I agree with the Air Force did which is another subject. Do not jeoprodise youself.

I thought that I read somewhere that under this policy, which is being enacted through out the DOD, the military is making it applicable to you even if you live off base. I do not like this and hope that GW will change it.

Thanks for serving. I gave nine years to our country in the 60s. We did not have this problem as we all were considered responsible.
 
It's ironic, those of us charged with the
profession of arms, are not to be trusted with them. I'm sitting here with my safes open, thinking about how many extra forms the orderly room needs to register my collection of over 50 pieces, and what they'll do
with that information once it's provided. That's what scares me the most, the whole arbitrariness of it. I can really envision something happening where I come home and the Security Police are hauling things out left and right, because somebody decided to say something, either in jest or spite. Funny thing is, when I did the coordination to get my C&R FFL, the base security forces didn't care to know about it, they sent me to the county sheriff's office for paperwork submission, stating that off- base
government housing was outside their jurisdiction. I realize I forfeit a lot of my rights as a citizen by serving in the military, damn near 15 years now. Looks like this old NCO is gonna head out and buy a ton of trigger locks, and modify all my ammo cans to accept padlocks, too. Oh, well. Thank you folks very much for your replies, they were well thought-out, and will help with my upcoming decisions.

Darin R. Pfaff
 
Last year, I posted my story about gun registration in Germany. The Commander stated repeatedly and in public, "All I want is to know where the guns are. That's all!"

As soon as we had registered with him, he ordered us, stating his power under the UCMJ, to bring all firearms to his "arms room". It was a concrete block, outhouse-sized building with several inches of water on the floor and no temperature control.

I see no reason to believe "modern", PC Commanders are more honest than that {deleted} Captain.

Therefore, I would recommend you move ALL your weapons to someplace safe from "military justice", (a conflict of terms) and declare that you have nothing to register.

Rental storage rooms have no climate control and are not secure. However, in most large towns, there are climate-controlled storage facilities for paper records. You could break your weapons into the smallest possible packages, label them "files" or "charts" and store them there.

Or find someone you trust.....

Remember, if it's their house, they can "inspect" at any time, bring you there to open your safes, etc....

------------------
Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!
 
First of all a Lt. Gen. issued the order . Gone are the officers that we would follow into Hell with full knowledge that they would not only bring us out but we would have the Devils head in a gunny sack . They are now a different breed .
Follow the bouncing ball . First they want to know who has them . Next they want to know that they are secure from children . They give no reason for the registration just for storage requirements .
Hungary , early 50's . Guns were not a problem the Gubmint said . Just keep them here at the Police Station . You wanna hunt ? Come by and pick it up . Bring it back when you are done hunting . No problem . Russians come in . 1956 . First thing they do is secure all police stations . Guns . Poof . Gone .
Don't try to introduce logic into the Gen.'s order . This only insinuates that you don't think that it is sensible . You will have quite the target on your back .
It's ironic . Uncle Sam gave me any weapon I wanted . M-14 , M-60 etc. whatever the occasion . Now everybody is sweating me having a .22 . Go figure .

------------------
TOM
SASS AMERICAN LEGION NRA GOA
 
It seems that the of the military is for everything except fighting wars. I wouldn't work for an organization that requires me to carry a weapon for its purposes, but won't allow me to carry one for mine. Your life is as valuable as those that you protect, Gewehr98. In your position, I would get out as soon as my obligation was fulfilled. In fact, I did after eight years. I'm not interested in having no rights and no respect, for the 'privilige' of carrying duds, perverts, and Affirmative Action appointees. Let the military have the useless human ballast that it works so hard to recruit. It deserves them.
 
Just another prime example of a ticket-punchin' communistnazi military officer who would be more than happy to send out his troops to murder millions of us gun owning vermin. Long ago, as he began his ticket-punchin' and kissing the rectum of his King, the Illustrious Klinton, he forgot his sworn oath.

There are plenty officers out there just like him. FWIW J.B.
 
I can't tell you what YOU should do, but I will tell you what *I* would do: not tell them a damn thing. I know I would be subject to the UCMJ, and I know all the arguments about how I would not have all the rights a normal citizen had. But I wouldn't tell them a thing and if necessary I would store the firearms in rental storage offbase to avoid their discovery until I could move to off-base housing.
 
This was the policy when I was on active duty in the 80's in the Army. 1st and 2nd paragraphs anyway. The third is new.

If I read it correctly, your not effected. You live off-post. Considering that all housing is a result of either the gov picking up the tab or paying you directly(BAQ), the key question for the JAG is "does this apply to me?". I don't think it does.

Giz
 
I am only assuming, but off post housing is more than likely privately owned but leased by the military to house military personnel and their families. That is the way it was done while I was in the Army. I don't believe a lease agreement would give the military legal authority there as it does on post. However, because you do not have the lease and as a condition of your acceptance of the housing, you may be required to obey the regulation. Check with JAG. Hopefully they will be truthfull. You are too close to retirement to jeopardize your career, you have a family to consider. If JAG says you have to comply, get the guns to someone living off post in private housing that you can trust to hold them. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.
 
If I recall correctly, base housing affects all housing efforts co-ordinated by that entity.
If you had the assistance of base housing, they have certain powers over you, regardless of whether you reside off base or not.
One has to remember, they own you, if you know what I mean.

You're right, it bites. Another reason I gave up on that life, and was reborn again, a civilian.
 
I live in what's called South Housing, other bases call it Wherry or Capehart Housing. It's detached from the main base, but is a military neighborhood of government owned houses. Law enforcement jurisdiction here is covered by the Satellite Beach Police Department, but the base Security Police also can come and go as they please. So it's their house, and their rules, hence the notice in my mailbox. Now do I act like a sheeple, roll over and register, or risk my time in service and career to stand for something I truly believe in. I've seen the hypothetical "last stand" discussion bantered around on the online gun forums for quite some time, and always thought it would be somebody else's problem, not mine. Now it is my problem, and it ain't the little bitty administrative error I thought it was, either. It's a real-live wake-up call, I firmly believe that more of Sarah Brady's camel has snuck under the tent, not just the nose...
 
Just move your guns off-post. A small but secure storage facility with adequate alarms will not cost much each month. Maybe you can share a space with a couple of buddies.
 
DorGunR said it right. Get them off base. While on base, you have no Constitutional protections. Otherwise, if you keep them on base, comply. If getting court-martialed could lead to a dishonorable discharge, couldn't that be a red flag when you try to buy a gun as a civilian?
 
I know this isnt answering the question but, Dude I am over at South Housing almost every other weekend. My friend is a JG in the Navy at is Housed on Magnolia street. Now to the question. Don't risk your career. Either find a place outside of post housing or register them with the SP. The Army has been doing in for a couple years. I cannot recall any incident of the MPs or SPs taking any weapons.

------------------
Shop Smart! Shop S-Mart**** That's right I'm a gear whore and proud of it***
 
During a 30 year career in the Coast Guard, I can state with absolute certainty that the gun registration rule has always been in effect. Sometimes not enforced or emphised but there just the same.

When I lived in government quarters the "lease" always mentioned firearms and their registration and storage (you signed it without reading?). And as an unmarried seaman living aboard, the keeping of firearms in ones room was strictly verboten!

These rule did not just apply to the CG because I lived in Navy and Air Force housing also and their rules were the same.

Don't jepordize a career, comply or move off base. That's what I finially did and I never regretted moving off base. It gave me a new perspective of life (living on base you never "really" leave the job cause all your neighbors are your co-workers). Besides, don't you get tired of all the gossip and back biting going on in housing?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top