Thinking of a Pocket Pistol Caliber for a small guy.
- Thread starter Rojack79
- Start date
For a Summer pocket carry pistol, I usually carry a NAA Guardian in 32acp, or my Ruger LCP Max 380. The Ruger is lighter and holds more rounds than the stainless NAA but the NAA is such a small package. Good luck finding a pocket gun that works for you, best advice I can off is to go to a well-stocked gun store and wear something you usually wear and ask to "try" out a few small guns to see how well they fill up your pocket and if you car draw with out issues.
I have an LCP II and can recommend it for what it is: light & compact & holds 8 rounds of decent HPs that has functioned 100% with HPs, FMJ and poly coated ammo.
It isn't an all day range gun and it's not a target pistol. I can only shoot it "comfortably" with 1 hand and can keep a fist size group at 8 yards. I don't have large hands, but a 2 handed grip seems like my support hand just gets in the way. Left handed, I can keep all the rounds safely inside a 8x11 sheet of paper at 8 yards, but not rapid fire. The sights are mere decorations. I can find them for the 1st shot, but when rapid firing, it's really just a point shooter. Rapid fire, I can keep all 8 rounds well inside an 8x11 sheet of paper, strong side hand.
{edit to add: I emphasize rapid firing since I consider 380 marginal and if I ever need to use it, I'll definitely want to pull the trigger more than once}
I've handled but not shot the LCP Max and like the feel and especially the sights. If I ever get rid of my LCP, I'll get the Max. I like to see the front sight when pulling the trigger.
25 vs 32 vs 380 to me, comes down to: What gun + ammo is going to do what I want?
I wouldn't have ever bought a 380 until I saw what Precision Ammo's XTP did in independent testing out of a short barrel. It won't give me what my 9mm or 45ACP will, but for something that'll conceal anywhere, it's worth having.
There are lots of great 25's and 32's (I'm a fan of Beretta's), but for self defense, I ascribe to the "carry the biggest in the smallest format" that'll still get the job done.
Ammo Quest's testing of 380 ammo in short barrel guns:
https://youtu.be/wOwCXXpEP50
It isn't an all day range gun and it's not a target pistol. I can only shoot it "comfortably" with 1 hand and can keep a fist size group at 8 yards. I don't have large hands, but a 2 handed grip seems like my support hand just gets in the way. Left handed, I can keep all the rounds safely inside a 8x11 sheet of paper at 8 yards, but not rapid fire. The sights are mere decorations. I can find them for the 1st shot, but when rapid firing, it's really just a point shooter. Rapid fire, I can keep all 8 rounds well inside an 8x11 sheet of paper, strong side hand.
{edit to add: I emphasize rapid firing since I consider 380 marginal and if I ever need to use it, I'll definitely want to pull the trigger more than once}
I've handled but not shot the LCP Max and like the feel and especially the sights. If I ever get rid of my LCP, I'll get the Max. I like to see the front sight when pulling the trigger.
25 vs 32 vs 380 to me, comes down to: What gun + ammo is going to do what I want?
I wouldn't have ever bought a 380 until I saw what Precision Ammo's XTP did in independent testing out of a short barrel. It won't give me what my 9mm or 45ACP will, but for something that'll conceal anywhere, it's worth having.
There are lots of great 25's and 32's (I'm a fan of Beretta's), but for self defense, I ascribe to the "carry the biggest in the smallest format" that'll still get the job done.
Ammo Quest's testing of 380 ammo in short barrel guns:
https://youtu.be/wOwCXXpEP50
lashlaruhe
New member
Check out a SCCY 9mm before you decide
Thanks for the tip on the Precision XTP; I had never heard of it/them before. I'll definitely have to give that ammo a try (with my LCP Max).
Frank
ammo.crafter
New member
pocket pistol
I have all the calibers you are considering.
Walther PP (circa WW II) in 32acp has a recoil that is barely noticeable but is a heavy.
An AMT Backup in 380acp is a true pocket pistol but has significant felt recoil.
LOOKS LIKE YOU MAY FIND A GOOD FIT WITH A S&W MODEL 61 ESCORT IN .22 MAG.
I have all the calibers you are considering.
Walther PP (circa WW II) in 32acp has a recoil that is barely noticeable but is a heavy.
An AMT Backup in 380acp is a true pocket pistol but has significant felt recoil.
LOOKS LIKE YOU MAY FIND A GOOD FIT WITH A S&W MODEL 61 ESCORT IN .22 MAG.
Bill DeShivs
New member
The S&W model 61 was never made in .22 WMR.
While I like the SCCYs I've had experience with (CPX2 and DVG-1), they are just a tad too heavy and too wide for front pocket carry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuQ-C4zJXTI
I recently just viewed this video on the OP's subject.
The Youtube video includes Kel-Tec, Glock 42, and a lightweight S&W revolver in .38 Special among others (like Ruger). The video is from TFB TV (the Firearms Blog).
I recently just viewed this video on the OP's subject.
The Youtube video includes Kel-Tec, Glock 42, and a lightweight S&W revolver in .38 Special among others (like Ruger). The video is from TFB TV (the Firearms Blog).
armoredman
New member
I pocket carry an Ruger EC9S in a Sticky holster with no issues, hides quite well, and I really don't like going below 9mm. CZ makes the eCZellent P-10M with is about the same size - my wife loves hers.
Good luck!
Good luck!
Super Sneaky Steve
New member
A S&W 351PD is super light at 11.4oz and holds 7 rounds of 22mag.
Bill DeShivs
New member
As I said, I'm 5'6", 175 lbs.
I can't carry a "J" frame S&W in my pocket-it will barely fit.
Same with a Keltec PF9.
The P32 is a wonderfully slim and lightweight, 8 shot pistol.
I can't carry a "J" frame S&W in my pocket-it will barely fit.
Same with a Keltec PF9.
The P32 is a wonderfully slim and lightweight, 8 shot pistol.
Cartwright Jones
New member
The .25 ACP gets no respect in a world dominated by the 9mm tacticool mindset, but it's still just as capable as it was decades ago - even with ball ammo.
The little Beretta .25 - I happen to own the 950B, carries a comforting 9 shots, is tiny enough to wear in a T-shirt pocket, and can be chambered by tipping up the barrel to insert a cartridge - no slide racking required. This means the gun can be cocked with thumb safety applied as a round is placed in, or removed from the chamber. The little gun easily fits in small hands and recoil is non-existent. While the .25 round is usually maligned when discussing such counter-factual intangibles such "one shot stops," or the ability to "kill" versus do what a self defense pistol most often needs to do - make an attacker turn away - 90% of the time, however what is overlooked is that practicing to put 3, 4, or 5 shots into an attacker's chest or face at close range radically improves the likelihood of at least dissuading the bad guy. Of course there are countless "proofs" out there that being shot with the .25 ACP is bad news. Also, Beretta is of known quality and reliable function.
The Beretta Tomcat .32 ACP is an excellent choice as well. Bigger and heavier than the tiny .25, it weighs around 14 ounces empty, and is quite hand filling thanks to the wide grip to house the twin recoil "arms" that power the slide. Like the smaller models it uses a tip-up barrel and can be chambered and cleared by tipping up the barrel. The Tomcat is also DA/SA with thumb safety and so can be carried in one of three intelligent ways:
Chambered with the hammer down, DA for first shot
Chambered with hammer cocked, thumb safety applied
Chambered with the hammer at half-cock for a shorter DA pull.
What you should NEVER do is carry an auto pistol with an empty chamber, because if you need it, you'll need it to come out ready to shoot! You can be sure the bad guy's gun will be chambered!
The Tomcat feels great in the hand, the safety is easy to reach with a short thumb, and recoil is negligible. Accuracy and reliability is top-tier and the gun holds a sollid 8 rounds fully loaded.
The .32 ACP doesn't get a lot of respect despite the fact that in Europe for most of the 20th Century it was the primary police caliber. You can view gelatin test of .32 ACP ammo on Lucky Gunner and it's plenty impressive. I would NOT want to be the person trying to prove it can't hurt me!
Then comes the Seecamp .32 ACP. Quite a bit smaller than the Beretta and just around 11 ounces empty - all stainless steel which is refreshing in a world of polymers. The gun is DAO, hammer fired and due to it's truly miniature size only carries 7 shots, but that's enough for all but the most extreme situation. The Seecamp must be chambered by racking the slide and that takes ample hand strength unless you have a slide racker. It incorporates a small recess in the chamber into which the shell casing expands to delay breech opening, and it's also limited to hollowpoint ammo of specified brands in order to fit into the magazine, though I resorted to filing down the noses of my Hornady JHP rounds so they would fit. The Seecamp also has a generous slot at the breech so you can visually confirm there's a round in the chamber or not. The gun has no external snag points, not even sights as it's meant for serious business. The manufacturer based his design on the ideal properties he felt were needed for a close-range gunfight - which he had personally survived during WW2.
Other choices would include the excellent Browning 1911-22 Compact or standard in .22 Long Rifle. Ten + 1 shots, carried cocked and locked exactly like a full-size 1911 in every way - well clearly not every way, but externally the same functionality.
The .22LR needs no introduction and while many will denigrate it, the little round has a proven track record of "one-shot stops" - think John Hinckley 1980, or RFK 1968, or just about any night in a big-city ER.
If you're on a budget I encourage you to check out the Phoenix Arms HP-22 and HP-25. These inexpensive Zinc-alloy autos use steel where it's needed to ensure reliable function, cost very little, and in the case of the .22LR that I own has proven to be 100% reliable! It's single action using a side-safety that's easily reached by the shooting thumb, and holds 10+1 shots.
Walther makes the P22 which is another excellent small .22LR. It holds 10+1, is DA/SA, polymer frame with alloy subframe to hold the fire control parts. It also comes with a tiny barrel bushing that can be removed and replaced with a threaded 1/2x28 adapter for those wishing to mount a small suppressor. With a Zinc-alloy slide and steel breech parts it weighs around 14 ounces empty and is reasonably priced. The four I've owned and handled have all been stellar performers across a wide range of ammunition.
There are even more choices today - Kel-Tec makes a nifty, super-light .22LR - P17, and of course S&W makes the 8-shot .22LR Model 43C revolver which completely eliminates all worries about chambering or condition status, just drop in a full charge of 8 shots using an inexpensive Revision CV speed loader and you're GTG! Ruger and Taurus also make "snubbie" .22LR revolvers, but the M43C is the lightest at 11 ounces empty and 12 ounces chock full of .22 goodness!
The little Beretta .25 - I happen to own the 950B, carries a comforting 9 shots, is tiny enough to wear in a T-shirt pocket, and can be chambered by tipping up the barrel to insert a cartridge - no slide racking required. This means the gun can be cocked with thumb safety applied as a round is placed in, or removed from the chamber. The little gun easily fits in small hands and recoil is non-existent. While the .25 round is usually maligned when discussing such counter-factual intangibles such "one shot stops," or the ability to "kill" versus do what a self defense pistol most often needs to do - make an attacker turn away - 90% of the time, however what is overlooked is that practicing to put 3, 4, or 5 shots into an attacker's chest or face at close range radically improves the likelihood of at least dissuading the bad guy. Of course there are countless "proofs" out there that being shot with the .25 ACP is bad news. Also, Beretta is of known quality and reliable function.
The Beretta Tomcat .32 ACP is an excellent choice as well. Bigger and heavier than the tiny .25, it weighs around 14 ounces empty, and is quite hand filling thanks to the wide grip to house the twin recoil "arms" that power the slide. Like the smaller models it uses a tip-up barrel and can be chambered and cleared by tipping up the barrel. The Tomcat is also DA/SA with thumb safety and so can be carried in one of three intelligent ways:
Chambered with the hammer down, DA for first shot
Chambered with hammer cocked, thumb safety applied
Chambered with the hammer at half-cock for a shorter DA pull.
What you should NEVER do is carry an auto pistol with an empty chamber, because if you need it, you'll need it to come out ready to shoot! You can be sure the bad guy's gun will be chambered!
The Tomcat feels great in the hand, the safety is easy to reach with a short thumb, and recoil is negligible. Accuracy and reliability is top-tier and the gun holds a sollid 8 rounds fully loaded.
The .32 ACP doesn't get a lot of respect despite the fact that in Europe for most of the 20th Century it was the primary police caliber. You can view gelatin test of .32 ACP ammo on Lucky Gunner and it's plenty impressive. I would NOT want to be the person trying to prove it can't hurt me!
Then comes the Seecamp .32 ACP. Quite a bit smaller than the Beretta and just around 11 ounces empty - all stainless steel which is refreshing in a world of polymers. The gun is DAO, hammer fired and due to it's truly miniature size only carries 7 shots, but that's enough for all but the most extreme situation. The Seecamp must be chambered by racking the slide and that takes ample hand strength unless you have a slide racker. It incorporates a small recess in the chamber into which the shell casing expands to delay breech opening, and it's also limited to hollowpoint ammo of specified brands in order to fit into the magazine, though I resorted to filing down the noses of my Hornady JHP rounds so they would fit. The Seecamp also has a generous slot at the breech so you can visually confirm there's a round in the chamber or not. The gun has no external snag points, not even sights as it's meant for serious business. The manufacturer based his design on the ideal properties he felt were needed for a close-range gunfight - which he had personally survived during WW2.
Other choices would include the excellent Browning 1911-22 Compact or standard in .22 Long Rifle. Ten + 1 shots, carried cocked and locked exactly like a full-size 1911 in every way - well clearly not every way, but externally the same functionality.
The .22LR needs no introduction and while many will denigrate it, the little round has a proven track record of "one-shot stops" - think John Hinckley 1980, or RFK 1968, or just about any night in a big-city ER.
If you're on a budget I encourage you to check out the Phoenix Arms HP-22 and HP-25. These inexpensive Zinc-alloy autos use steel where it's needed to ensure reliable function, cost very little, and in the case of the .22LR that I own has proven to be 100% reliable! It's single action using a side-safety that's easily reached by the shooting thumb, and holds 10+1 shots.
Walther makes the P22 which is another excellent small .22LR. It holds 10+1, is DA/SA, polymer frame with alloy subframe to hold the fire control parts. It also comes with a tiny barrel bushing that can be removed and replaced with a threaded 1/2x28 adapter for those wishing to mount a small suppressor. With a Zinc-alloy slide and steel breech parts it weighs around 14 ounces empty and is reasonably priced. The four I've owned and handled have all been stellar performers across a wide range of ammunition.
There are even more choices today - Kel-Tec makes a nifty, super-light .22LR - P17, and of course S&W makes the 8-shot .22LR Model 43C revolver which completely eliminates all worries about chambering or condition status, just drop in a full charge of 8 shots using an inexpensive Revision CV speed loader and you're GTG! Ruger and Taurus also make "snubbie" .22LR revolvers, but the M43C is the lightest at 11 ounces empty and 12 ounces chock full of .22 goodness!
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lee n. field
New member
That may be a matter of, in the future, getting pants with bigger pockets.
I don't know of any of the micro compact 9mms that hold less than 6 rounds.
Smallest, pocketable gun, with tolerable accuracy
Hmm.
Ruger's done some things with the LCP line that make it maybe worth your looking into. The original LCP was a miserable gun to shoot. (I could never get accurate with it.) But, there are versions now with actual sights. And, there is a .22 rimfire version now.
throttleup
New member
Ruger LCP Max, Galco horsehide pocket holster, 11 rounds .380 Hornady Critical Defense, spare 12 round magazine in another pocket. Plenty of firepower.