Thinking about getting a 9mm for teaching purposes. Which one?

[Correia]

I informally introduce lots of people to shooting, and I have taught lots of those.

I have a small battery of pistols (.22, 9x18, .40, .45). But no 9mm. I am interested in purchasing a medium-full size 9mm just for teaching purposes. Just to introduce new shooters to something that is easy to shoot with minimal recoil.

Budget is of course a concern, because I'm (as usual) poor!

What would you get for this purpose, and why?

 

[PPK]

The Glock:

1) Safe
2) Reasonably priced
3) Easy to learn

I work part-time at a shooting range and I have found that Glocks are a good choice for first-timers. No decocker to learn, no external safety to fool with (the trigger safety doesn't really count, IMO).

Plus, it makes a good addition to any shooting battery, regardless of experience level.

Edit:
I forgot:
4) Reliable
5) Accurate
6) Lots of holsters, etc, for it.

 

[Alerion]

For the price, it's hard to beat the CZ 75 B. Plus, for the purpose of instruction, it allows demonstrating the difference between SA and DA and allows experience with using a safety. The weight and the full-size grip go a long way in managing recoil as well.

I used one this past weekend to introduce two new shooters to handguns.

Tom

 

[Extremist]

Walther P99:

- Replacement backstraps to adapt to multiple shooters hands
- Double Action/Single Action to teach them that trigger system
- Clear visible 3 dot sights
- Mild recoil, 100% reliable
- Easy to see chamber loaded/cocked indicators
- Easily obtained for under $500

I learned on a Beretta 92F, but the grip is not good for women shooters as it is usually too big. You could get a 92FCM-Type L but the Walther P99 is much more versatile.

Regards,
James

 

[Ewok_Guy]

Glock for sure. Simple and light.

 

[glockgazda]

As much as I like Glocks, CZ-75 or if the opportunity is there, CZ-85.

For $300-$350 you can have a gun with one hi cap. Get extra hi caps for $35-$45. Get a .22 top end that duplicates the weight of the real deal for $200 (talk about ultimate training tool).

Reliable, durable, and a lot of them really accurate.

As mentioned, can train people in DA/SA and SA cocked and locked.

Can't be beat for the money.

Wish I haven't sold my CZ-85 and .22 conversion, damn it!

 

[Kermit]

Not really a medium sized frame, but my vote went w/ the Beretta.

 

[Rovert]

Although I own the P99 and love it to death, more so than the 92, the question was about NEW shooters, so I voted for the Beretta for the following reasons:

* Controls are large, and easily seen and manipulated
* Trigger pull is both DA, and SA, so you can teach the concepts of both types of action
* Both safety and decocker, so you have two concepts illustrated there, too.
* Larger mass, to absorb recoil, easing transition period for new shooters.

Second choices would be the SIG and CZ.

LAST choice is the GLOCK, for the following reasons:
* Polymer guns have more felt recoil, and can intimidate new shooters.
* Lack of striker condition indicator, or hammer, to offer visual confirmation for a beginner can make shooters feel uncomfortable.
* Famous (or infamous) 'creepy trigger' can be very disturbing to a newbie.
* Absence of controls on the Glock will not be illustrative of the majority of guns on the market, that are NOT striker-fired.

Points about fit in the hand are well taken. If a smaller/thinner gun is important, the Beretta Vertec might be a candidate. Basically a 92, but a bit thinner, without the hump in the backstrap.

 

[Jaguar]

Well, I voted for the Kahr K9. I believe that the weight and low profile barrel is sufficent to reduce felt recoil. The grip is small enough to fit nicely into hand, espically people with small hands, many women find it easier to hold on to. The DOA makes it simple to operate and many revolver shooters (point and pull) like the simplicity.

Just my $0.02

Stay safe, JAG

 

[Watch-Six]

IMHO the Sig 226 is the best 9mm going, but for your purposes I would get a Glock 19. Watch-Six

 

[boiler03]

new shooter's view

I just bought my first handgun-------Colt 1991A!. If you are teaching, go with something that has a consistant trigger pull. So, my vote is either a 1911, or a Glock (or something that is DAO). I love the feel of my full size 1911, but if I had to do it over I would have got something in 9mm. One, it is cheaper to shoot, and felt recoil is a lot less in my hands. The first time I shot, I was shooting at 10 yds. at steel plates. I had to fight the recoil to hit, and sometimes I would even hit only one plate with 7 rounds (6 inch plates). My buddy gave me his CZ 75 PCR with 10 rounds and I knocked down 7 plates with one bullet to spare (7/9). Go 9mm, and something that obsorbs the recoil. I would have eventually ended up with a Colt 1911 anyway and I got a huge deal on it, so that is why I bought it. My next semi-auto purchase will be a Glock 19, H7K USP9 compact, or Sig 239, or maybe and Walther P99. Just $.02 from a newbie.

 

[Rovert]

Are we sure we're voting for the guns that are best to TEACH with, or just the guns you OWN?

Maybe I'm missing the point, but with the Beretta (or similar), you have the best of all worlds, given the scenario:

* You can teach ONLY the SA pull, which simulates a Glock.
* You can teach DA pull by decocking, that simulates a revolver pull.
* You can teach consistent trigger pull, by having the student practice mainpulating the weapon to change stages, which has double value in getting them to understand the underlying firing mechanisms.
* You can teach the use of a safety lever, like a 1911
* You can teach the use of a decocker
* You have a visual indicator of weapon condition, like a 1911 (hammer).

I just think that a Glock's "simplicity" is its downfall, in a training scenario - great for those of us who have ALREADY DEVELOPED FIREARMS DISCIPLINE, not so great for those who haven't yet gained a comfort level. Then again, in fairness to fundamentals, one could argue that the "simplicity" ENFORCES fundamental discipline... so if you want to take that tangent, you got somethin' there.

Like I said... I own, and LOVE, my P99, MK9, and Kimber 1911, but for all around instruction, the Beretta (SIG, also) is hard to beat, from a purely instructive standpoint, in terms of the way it can simulate the behavior of various different guns and actions.

 

[JohnKSa]

Ruger KP89DC

1. DA & SA triggers are stiff enough to make ADs improbable.
2. Manual of arms is simple (Point, pull trigger.)
3. Gun is designed to tolerate single loading.
4. Grip isn't too large & trigger reach is reasonable.
5. Slide spring is pretty light.
6. Gun is VERY reliable, VERY durable, VERY strong and tolerates limp-wristing and cheap ammo.
7. Price is quite reasonable.
8. Ruger customer service is excellent.
9. Hi-caps can still be had at reasonable prices.
10. Gun is virtually corrosion proof.

 

[enkidu]

CZ-85B with Kadet adapter...

I would go with the CZ-85B with a Kadet adapter for several reasons:

1. Ambi controls: Lefties need to learn also.
2. Standard controls: Slide release, hammer and safety are in more or less "standard" locations.
3. External hammer: I think it really helps to be able to see the external hammer to understand how the gun works.
3. 22 and 9mm: You can start them out with the Kadet adapter and after 40 rounds or so, they can switch to 9mm while keeping the gun exactly the same.
4. Ergonomics: CZ-[87]5 seem to fit lots of hands well.
5. Weight: More weight == less recoil.

The only drawback might be that the DA trigger pull may be too long for those with small hands/short fingers (although this hasn't been a problem with my size small hands).

Alternatively, I'd go with the P99+P22 which gives some of the advantages above.

 

[juliet charley]

I'd vote for one of the Rugers for all the reasons previously given inexpensive, good quality/durability, etc., and one more very good reason. At least in this part of the country, Rugers are what the general non-shooting (non-"gun people") are buying. Every dealer with whom I've talked has told Ruger is outselling anyting else by far. I just renewed by CHL, and out of eleven shooters (all new--I was the only renewal in the group) nine had various Ruger automatics (the P90 being the most popular).

If you are going to train, use something to train with they are going to buy.

 

[Mr. SIG]

I thought it was just me....

Good answer Rovert. I own the Beretta, Wather, Sig and XD. all in 9mm. I agree with you on your choice. The Beretta would be my choice also for training purposes. Forget the Glock! This thread did start to sound like a favorite gun poll rather than the question of learning.

 

[jack_the_sailor]

For a training gun I would suggest a revolver like a S&W M10 heavy barrel. In 9mm any DAO. No Glock unless it has a NY trigger spring which gives it a harder trigger pull. The worst pistol to teach a newbe with has a DA/SA trigger action. This requires 2 different trigger pulls for first & second shot. Firearms instructors like revolvers for the newbe because of the long hard trigger pull (to avoid AD) & easy to use. So In a 9mm a DAO pistol shares the same idea. DA/SA pistols are a further bad idea because of the light SA trigger. A newbe will pull the long hard DA trigger then not realise it has a light SA trigger pull for the second shot & boom AD. I've been shooting pistols for over 15 years & I still don't like DA/SA trigger actions. If money is an issue any Ruger DAO 9mm.

 

[blades67]

I think the Walther P99 is the one to get. The gun will be used to teach new shooters, of various sizes. With three different backstraps to choose from the Walther is already more versatile than the other 9 mm pistols for teaching new shooters. With the adjustable sights you can zero the gun to any cheap ammo you can find. This way new shooters don't have to learn about Kentucky windage while trying to remember everything else they're learning.

 

[isaidme]

Glock 19 ,just doesnt get more simple then that!Anyone can field strip it in less than a minute.Reliable straight from the box!

 

[1goodshot]

I like the glock best but the berretta is easier to shoot in my opinion