Things may be getting worse for honest gun owners in the EU.

Tom Servo said:
I always take issue with the "well, just move!" posts. That's not always a feasible option for people with mortgages, jobs, and families.

I agree. Just lining up a decent job in another state, much less another country, can be a daunting task. Add in other factors like the welfare of children and I doubt many would take the bite of moving solely for 2nd Amendment issues.

Tom Servo said:
Furthermore, if everyone left the afflicted areas, who would stay to fight such laws?

I'd say some areas have reached the point of no return regarding excessive gun control laws. California, New York and Massachusetts would be a few U.S. states as examples. And, if everyone who was against gun control left a particular state with excessive gun control laws, the remaining people in that state could enjoy them to their hearts content :)
 
I'd say some areas have reached the point of no return regarding excessive gun control laws.
I'm not sure there is a point of no return. Consider Illinois. A few years ago, it looked as if they'd never see concealed carry there.
 
"So the death of democracy will not be from a bunch of lunatics running around trying to re-create the middle-ages it will be from self-serving politicians pandering to a population who have forgotten how to think for themselves and actually question what their told once in a while"
This is how all democracies die. Rome could have easily held off the hordes, they even should have been able to --but the progressive rot of incompetent government, inherited mediocrity, and lead poisoning* degraded their ability to do what was necessary; what would have been the instinctive response during earlier periods of their history.

Europe is slated for a similar decline, with one major exception; the EU has no standing army, for now. They can threaten and bluster all they want with economic sanctions, but when faced with a real threat, these tools will falter and member states will look to their own. No one wants to sanction a neighbor who may they may need to fight alongside of in the near future, and no national government will promote foreign policies so unpopular at home as to threaten its existence. Unless there is military threat present.

Which is why I fully expect the EU to muster a trans-national military force in the near future, nominally to counter Russia/ISIS, but in reality to subjugate member states' governing bodies.

"four terms were the spur for Republicans to push the 22nd Amendment"
Well, that coupled with all the other crazy crap his administration pulled or tried to pull during the Depression & WWII. Another term would have had him banning the Republican Party outright, or suspending elections.

TCB

*I fully expect that the history books written by the Chinese or whomever, will record that excessive media intake by society directly led to structural hesitation and indecision dominating our strategies. Paralysis by analysis, at a civilizational level. Either that, or all the fluoride in the water made the leaders as dumb as the rest of us :p
 
"What the decent people of Europe have to worry about most (from their governments) is the use of the Paris Attacks (and any subsequent) as a "Reichstag Fire"."
What with what's-his-face in France demanding freer reign to suspend civil liberties, for the purpose of restoring civil liberties, I'd say it's a bit late for that. The real question is whether the leadership possesses the will to power of the nascent Nazi party, or whether the people possess the will to freedom to resist it in the face of partly-real-partly-trumped-up fear. I suspect the results will not be uniform across the region, the East rising to the occasion more so than the West.

TCB
 
Question: are the individual members of the EU not still sovereign states which can choose to accept or reject such proposals? I admit that I do not fully understand all the dynamics of the EU, but if the individual members are subject to laws and regulations made by this commission, it seems to me that they've foolishly surrendered their sovereignty.

If the situation is not as I understand it, then perhaps all that is necessary for gun owners in the EU to protect their firearm rights is not to fight the EU, but to influence the government of their individual countries to reject these proposals.
 
Well, to answer your question, it is both yes and no. Once a measure has passed at an EU level, then all must adhere to the decision, but individual countries can block legislation since normally decisions are made by consensus. However, they can decide to pass them by majority vote rather then by consensus, and all still have to adhere to it.

Realistically, if the big players in the EU (France, Germany, UK) agree on something, it is very hard for the others to say no as there's a lot of hand-wringing behind the scenes. Some countries have complained against proposed measures already (eg. Czech Republic), but none of the big players have said no, yet, which makes me fearful it will pass.

And yes, we have surrendered our sovereignity lightly; I personally voted against joining, but we have what we have. Hopefully, and likely, I'll outlive the damn union.
 
Wow, that is a pretty crummy situation. It's a pity because there are a few places in Europe which, while not as good as the U.S., still have gun laws which aren't too bad (the Czech Republic comes immediately to mind). As a matter of fact, a few of those countries were places I would have considered living under the right circumstances (I don't intend to leave the U.S., but it's nice to have options). This EU, business, however, greatly diminishes the attractiveness of living pretty much anywhere in Europe for me :(.
 
For me, and my Family, Florida is our last stop!

My Wife and I could exist quite well back in the UK, they have free heath care, look after older folks better than most places on earth. BUT! Love being a US Citizen, love Florida (did I mention the weather?)

The EU has many rules and regulations that would prohibit my living there again, but still a great place to visit. The British Isles, Austria, Switzerland, and Ireland, Germany, Italy, all places I have visited in the past.

Of course visiting the way I did, and could do again, off the plane, into a rental vehicle (remember to drive on the correct side of the road!) bed and Breakfast, reasonable way as well. No way an organized bus tour would snare we two!

English and Irish Pub food! Cheap, and good! How can I think about food after yesterday's excesses?
 
The EU has its advantages, but people are starting to realise it needs to evolve and adapt to stay relevant/viable/attractive. It still has a lot of potential, IMHO, but if it only suits the big players it is not a Union as it should be.

This needs to change.
 
AP story in Pgh. Tribune-Review headlined Ex-N.Y.speaker convicted

Sheldon Silver's conviction is subject to appeal, so he might walk, who knows. Otherwise, if said conviction is upheld, Sheldon will be another in a longish line of elected anti gun/anti guns rights pols to have ended up on the wrong side of the law. Hopefully, if his conviction is upheld, he will walk into prison, to serve the longest possible period as a "guest" of the citizenry, he played an important role in so grievously abusing.

My error, intended as a separate post, that computer key board get's me from time to time
 
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When did things in Europe ever improve for law abiding gun owners?

Let's not make too many sweeping generalisations just on this one issue. Even if you have extensive personal experience of day-to-day living in Europe.....
 
When did things in Europe ever improve for law abiding gun owners?

Well... when the Soviet Bloc fell apart, most of the countries to a lesser or greater extent made it easier to be a law abiding gun owner, because the Soviets did not want an armed populace. That was a positive change, albeit a rare one.

Anyway, the current EU law is not too bad, except countries which wish to do so can tighten it. My country sadly has very tight laws, stronger then EU required. Of course, this creates a lot of problems for shooters, and you have very few shooting ranges and can't shoot anywhere but the shooting range or hunting grounds (there only with guns which are registered as hunting weapons and during a hunt).

Shooting, outside of air rifles and pistols, is not a popular sport because of all the complications. When someone is interested, they get turned off that they can't even rent guns at the range, but have to go through all the hoops and expenses of getting one first.

Eg. where I live there's really no place even remotely nearby where I can shoot sport large caliber rifles. The closest is hours of driving away. The only pistol range in my city works weekends only, and shooting is problematic in the summer during tourist season (on the other hand, suppressors are flat out banned, because logic). Building a new range requires going through a lot of bureaucracy and hoops with very uncertain outcome.
 
Brit - why didn't you like Australia? what is it about Florida that you don't want to move anywhere else?
Pond - do you think real refugees are those who should live in safe countries closest to them?
 
I have contacted a few UK politicians, and they are against more gun control. Ironically any of the UK politicians that represent Northern Ireland were thousands have being mudered by terrorists are against gun control. Experince has shown them that firearms controls woint stop terrorists getting firearms illegally.
 
Pond if the real refugees are those that are really in need of refuge they would go to closest safe country..not travel thousands of miles to alien cultures and then engage in country shopping...trying to get the best welfare deals...
 
Pond if the real refugees are those that are really in need of refuge they would go to closest safe country..not travel thousands of miles to alien cultures and then engage in country shopping...trying to get the best welfare deals...

If you think those people risk life and limb of their entire families just to go country shopping.... If you think life in places like Syria really aren't hell on earth at the moment... what can I say?

I'm not getting into this with you. Sorry, but I'm not.
 
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