The real truth about the new 6.5 Creedmoor v/s the .308

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You have to trim to length after sizing cause it will be way long, (it is usually somewhere around the 2.040 range so I trim back to the 1.915 which is 5 thousands under my chamber case length) but I consider that normal case prep and I don't get the dreaded donut like with lapua brass.
A slight fire form is necessary and that will make the shoulders crisp and you may still need to trim. I also anneal after a few reloadings.
The no issues was meaning no primer pocket problems like some have with the softer Hornady brass, but I have heard Hornady has rectified the problem.

I had thought of designing a longer creedmoor with the same taper and to have the shoulder at 1.5598 like the 308 parent case, but with a case length of 2.035 like the 260, change the shoulder angle to 35 degrees like the 284 case, you wouldn't gain any powder capacity over the 260 but it should be a little more efficient than the 260, and possibly get you closer to the velocites of the 6.5 x 284. Plus I shoot a single shot bolt action so I am not worried about magazine length.
Maybe next project down the road.
 
Petru, while I agree with everything you say, 100%, I have to ask, "So what?"

The Creedmoore is being marketed as an across the course target cartridge. As such, it is highly specialized, and one would not be put off at any of the "drawbacks" that you outline. Most shooters I know that are putting $2,500+ into a target rifle aren't going to worry about setting the barrel back and rechambering in a couple of years. And most competitors I know are not hung up on a long action AR platform.

I don't see the Creedmoore eating into the 308 market, or any other market. OTOH, there is a good deal of knowledge that can come out of a new cartridge that is more efficient than than the 308 Win.

Now, I love the 260 Rem. Is it truly a "better" cartridge? In many respects, it is. But maybe not as an across the course target cartridge. Time will tell.

Oh, and I think your point about less tapered cases and dirty chambers is more of an indictment of direct gas impingement platforms than "improved" case design. Most turnbolt target rifles are rarely affected by dirty chambers.

One of the great things I love about America is the choices we have.
 
wow, what an ignorant statement about the creedmoor. The real fact when it comes to maximizing ballistics in a short action is that the 6.5 smashes on the .308. Not only does the creedmoor have less drop, it has less wind drift, and more energy at extended ranges with less recoil. It has the edge on the .308 hands down, and does the .260 rem, 6.5x47L. The VLD type bullets in the 6.5 140grn class have a higher BC than anything the 308 can push. There are also many, many great bullets available in 6.5, Berger vlds, SMK's, A-Max, Scenars, in 120 to 142grns all have high BC and slip through the wind. As for cost, last I checked, Hornady 6.5 creedmoor ammo is cheaper than good 308 match ammo. As for the creed vs the 260, well it could go either way here as far a ballistics. Both are nearly identical. The creed is a tad shorter in over all length will less case capacity, but that will allow you to seat longer heavy bullets into a short action without the bullet intruding into the case. The creedmoor also has a stronger case design than the .260 with a sharper 30 degree shoulder. On the other hand the .260 might feed better out of a magazine because it does have more body taper. As for killing power, the 6.5 has proven it's self for over 100 years in Europe. The 6.5x55 has killed many Moose and done it well. Thin, heavy bullets with high SD's penetrate a long way. I can't understand why Americans don't like 6.5s?
 
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The 6.5 Creedmoor is a specialty cartridge for guys looking for more X's
across the course and at 1000.

i.e. pros and top competitors fighting the wind, mirage, and various mental/body
fatigues.

If you are not shooting master scores, you don't need to go there.

It was developed by David Emary and Dennis DeMille.

G. David Tubb shoots the 6XC the last time I looked. This is another
specialty cartridge designed to shoot a 115 grain 6mm VLD type bullet.
He says this is the ideal across-the-course cartridge.

These guys focus on performance. If they can come up with something
that will give them an edge they will do it. G. David Tubb is a NO
compromises type guy. Same with DeMille. Of course, either one
could beat me with a gun chambered for 30-30. :)

If you want history of 6.5 Creedmoor go here --

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDtu_sM7Pow


If you want to read about the 6XC go here --

http://www.6mmbr.com/6XC.html

.
.
 
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Today with the "velocity is everything school of thought" any bullet traveling less than 3,000 fps is considered completely useless to all except the people have hunted all their lives with "classic cartridges" and know how good they really are.
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Um, somebody needs to talk with some high power shooter. Its not about velocity, its about accuracy. Velocity is not Accuracy.

Take the standard 80 SMK 223 load in service rifle, used at 600-1000 yards in an AR, Vel is between 2600 & 2700 fps.

In the 308, the round used in service rifles (Match) is 2550 FPS. The ISU 300 meter rifle in 308 is loaded to about 2200 fps. The army determined a while back that was the accurate speed range for the ISU.

As far as Mr Tubbs 6.5, it works, regardless of any of our opinions Mr Tubbs knows what he's doing when it comes to highpower and long range shooting.
I dont own a 6.5 Creedmore, but I've seen um shoot. If one is serious about target shooting, it would be worth a look see.

What we shouldnt do, is condemn ones choice of a rifle/round just because we like something else.

If you dont like a certain round, then state why, based on your experience with that round and/or rifle.

Regardless, Tubbs 6.5 works. Hard to dispute that. Like I said, I dont own one, and don't see getting one in the future. I'll stick to the service rifle for my highpower, and that limits me to the 223 and 308. I'll be long gone before the Army comes up with an new service round that DCM will allow in Service Rifle Matches. Which is fine, I'm finding the 223 works in highpower and 1000 yard matche.
 
That old 6.5 Swed after 113 years will still out shoot .308s

old Sneaky here: I'm prejudice Cuz I own and shoot a gevar m41/B Swed Sniper and the 6.5 projectile will and does out shoot the .308 and everyone knows it. To lengthen barrel life use Moly in the bore and projectiles-it works and everyone knows it-even G. David Tubb as he uses it and so does Old Sneaky. Now it's no mystery that gun manufactures come up with "New" rifles and/or cartridges not because they'r good guys but to make MONEY. If they don't they'd be out of business. So what's my point?--I you've got the dough and want to spend it on something New & Shiney --go for it--but that doesn't mean that it's better than what's been out there for 113 years. OBTW Who has and sells 6.5-160gr Match projectiles in the same BC range as the 140gr range?? I shoot Lapua Scenar 139gr with a BC of .619 and I was under the impression that the 160gr (which was the Origional weight of the 6.5X55 Swed) is a Round Nose projectile origionally developed for War but the Sweds finally changed it to 139gr- The 160 gr is a great huntng round for up to moose but I use my 139gr Scenar for hunting Cuz I put my shot where I want it. THANX--SNEAKY :)
 
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Maybe it's time to put a heavier barrel in my .264 Win mag ...

but the pre-64 Winchester Model 70 fans would be hunting my hide.

Hopefully the hoopla, or at least self interest, will get some more 6.5 bullets available for my rifle.
 
The O.P. contains numerous factual errors, e.g.

* Tubb had nothing to do with 6.5 CM, it was Dennis DeMille

* .260 is hands-down better than .308 for long-range

but I want to correct the misunderstanding that stubbicatt posted because I have seen it repeated several times elsewhere (thanks for the compliment too by the way):
The dimensions of the cartridge allow one to seat a 140 without the base of the bullet extending below the neck/shoulder junction and still feed from a standard 308 length box magazine. There is some indication that this should increase accuracy.
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The base of a 140gr will be well below the bottom of the neck, closer to the body/shoulder junction. When I was doing research for the article, I asked the engineer at Hornady about that specifically. Bottom line, this aspect is not a substantial difference compared to .260 Rem (if it were, I would have mentioned it in the article).

thanks
-z
 
Pulled targets this weekend with a shooter who uses a 6.5 Grendel. He is getting 4000 rounds through his tube.

He uses reduced loads for 100 yard Highpower matches, and maybe 200 yards.

He shoots a AR variant and it is very accurate.

When comparing wind dope at 300 yards and 600 yards with the 6.5 Grendel shooters, I had similiar windage for my 168's at 300, and 175's at 600.

Not like the situation when I was squadded with a 6.5-08 shooter at Perry. I had a .223 AR service rifle, and double the windage he had at 600 yards.

The O.P. contains numerous factual errors, e.g.

* Tubb had nothing to do with 6.5 CM, it was Dennis DeMille

* .260 is hands-down better than .308 for long-range
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I examined the .260 article. I believe the author, when making energy comparisons, is using kinetic energy. I do not believe that is a valid comparision as KE is not conserved in collisons. The only energy conserved is momentum. Which, if the ME numbers were run, the bigger, heavier bullet would likely have more "energy".
 
I think the 6.5 Creedmoor will be a dead end for them, like the .30 TC and .308 Marlin Express. Advantages which only appear in magazine articles don't last well.
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Apparently Ruger, Winchester and Savage don't agree with your prediction of a 6.5 Creedmoor demise. Bet it eclipses the 260 in the next two years. From what I am seeing and hearing the Creedmoor is a home run.
 
There is a lot of demand for mid-size 6.5mm cartridges-- I think enough room for 6.5x47, 6.5 Creedmoor, and .260. Lapua's .260 brass will be showing up on the scene in a few months.
 
Ar with (junk) trigger

Not so. Mine shoots -1/2 in at 100 yds and 3/4 moa at 600 yds. Yes a sanctioned shoot 4in group w 600yds. 70gr berger vld and 25gr varget. 18 in barrell, 2 stage rra trigger, tac inovat I ons forged lower top of with 2-7 leopold vx2. All ar, sorry.
Of course I have 2 308's that'll do the same.
But I like creedmoore an 6 norma too. 308 is nice, love mine, but it's not the do all, end all like some posters seem t pop think!
Liten up , it,s all fun...
New guy here, so hi!
Lessdrop
 
I know I'm responding to someone who posted in January who was responding to someone a couple years ago...

But the .260 is going to be way more popular than the 6.5 CM in 2/4/8/10 years. It is the .308 necked down, has better factory brass availability (Lapua/Nosler/Remington/Norma/Federal), and target shooters are buying them like hotcakes.

If/when Federal comes out with a GMM load for .260 it will sound the death knell for the other target 6.5's. They will stay around forever, as target shooters are a picky bunch and don't mind playing with odd calibers, but the train will have left the station.

The 6.5 CM will go the way of the .30 TC - great cartridge, but can't compete with the .308 family.
 
I like the 6.5s, too. I have two 6.5x55s and a Grendel. I am going to get another, and have been vacillating between 260 and Creedmoor, in a Savage Weather Warrior, primarily for hunting. I am totally frustrated about which to choose. I was leaning toward the Creedmoor, but am now leaning the other way, due to some of the comments here and on other forums, i.e., ammo availability, staying-power of the round, etc. Can anyone guide me here? I do not reload, and I've seen more ammo available for the 260 than the CM, but I may also want to get a 6.5 upper for one of my AR-10 platforms, and was leaning toward the CM because of it working better in that platform, and because it has been said that the 260 is too long for the magazines with heavier bullets.

Any help with my decision will be greatly appreciated.
 
If you plan on hunting get the 260 Rem.

If you plan on competing get the 6.5 Creedmoor.

It really is that simple.

Jimro
 
Thank you so much, Jimro. You don't know how much that helps me. Now I can sleep at night. LOL I'm gonna get the Savage Weather Warrior in 260 and not look back. Do you think that is a good platform? Since I'm left handed, my options are limited.
 
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