The photos of Dr. Paul and Don Black...

[nate45]

As for the Liberty, blue on blue attacks are nothing new in warfare, and the identification technology in 1967 was nowhere NEAR what it is today. The US claimed it had no ships in the area until after the attack, and expecting Israel to ignore a ship conducting surveillance on them when they were at war is no more realistic than expecting the US to look the other way if they found an unidentified ship sailing off of Oahu on Dec. 8, 1941.

Oh really?

The Attack

After surveilling USS Liberty for more than nine hours with almost hourly aircraft over flights and radar tracking, the air and naval forces of Israel attacked our ship in international waters without warning. USS Liberty was identified as a US naval ship nine hours before the attack by Israeli reconnaissance aircraft and continuously tracked by Israeli radar and aircraft thereafter. Sailing in international waters at less than five knots, with no offensive armament, our ship was not a military threat to anyone.

The Israeli forces attacked without warning and without attempting to contact us. Thirty four Americans were killed in the attack and another 174 were wounded. The ship, a $40 Million Dollar state of the art signals intelligence platform, was later declared unsalvageable and sold for scrap. http://www.gtr5.com/

" . . . an act of military recklessness reflecting wanton disregard for human life."

Then Secretary of State Dean Rusk in a 10 June 1967 diplomatic note to the Israeli Ambassador.

"But I was never satisfied with the Israeli explanation. Their sustained attack to disable and sink Liberty precluded an assault by accident or soem trigger-happy local commander. Through diplomatic channels we refused to accept their explanations. I didn't believe them then, and I don't believe them to this day. The attack was outrageous."
Rusk, As I Saw It, W.W.Norton, 1990. p 388

 

[gc70]

Why should we trust Ron Paul? I mean, here is a thread about him and he wanders off at post #43, not to return until post #59. Even then, there is this smokescreen of talk about the Middle East to divert our attention from his absence.

 

[Fremmer]

So Ron Paul has his picture taken with a wacko white supremist, and then accepts and retains campaign money from the wacko's white supremist group, and nobody from the Paul campaign seems worried about it? Even a little?

 

[SDC]

Oh really?

If the Liberty didn't fully identify HERSELF, then that's the risk you take when you put a surveillance ship into an area at war. How many times in Iraq and Afghanistan have Coalition forces managed to kill OTHER Coalition forces in "friendly-fire" incidents, and this happens even when they're on the same freaking radio net?

 

[SteelCore]

So Ron Paul has his picture taken with a wacko white supremist, and then accepts and retains campaign money from the wacko's white supremist group, and nobody from the Paul campaign seems worried about it? Even a little?

Nope. I'd worry if he had a obvious history of involvement with such organizations (like David Duke) or were on record as saying he hated blacks, Jews, etc., but that doesn't seem to be the case at all.

If the Liberty didn't fully identify HERSELF, then that's the risk you take when you put a surveillance ship into an area at war.

You'd think the gigantic US flag the Liberty was flying in perfectly clear weather would have sufficed as identification. Not to mention the nine hours of surveillance prior to the attack.

It was a deliberate attack. No question about it.

Now, it's been nice chatting with you guys, but I have to go. This thread's gone so far off topic (I take a lot of responsibility for that) that I suppose it will be locked when I return.

 

[SDC]

They wanted a war on Iraq, and they were looking for any excuse to get one.

Then that's the US's fault, not Israel's.

Quote:
As for the Liberty, blue on blue attacks are nothing new in warfare, and the identification technology in 1967 was nowhere NEAR what it is today. The US claimed it had no ships in the area until after the attack, and expecting Israel to ignore a ship conducting surveillance on them when they were at war is no more realistic than expecting the US to look the other way if they found an unidentified ship sailing off of Oahu on Dec. 8, 1941.

There is no question that it was a deliberate attack. Go to the link I provided (if your doubts are sincere) and read all the details. The claim that the Israelis didn't know it was an American ship is preposterous.

See above; we can't stop "friendly fire" incidents even when the forces involved are on the same radio net and operating under the same chain of command; how is it that you expect a FOREIGN country to know your intentions when you put an unmarked ship in their area when they are under attack? Even if someone at a headquarters somewhere knew the Liberty was a US ship, that doesn't mean that the people actually squeezing triggers knew it, or that they had proper communications back and forth on both sides.

 

[SDC]

You'd think the gigantic US flag the Liberty was flying in perfectly clear weather would have sufficed as identification. Not to mention the nine hours of surveillance prior to the attack.

And, false flag incidents are likewise nothing new in warfare; the US itself used that ploy in the Gulf of Tonkin; now, if you see something that APPEARS to be a US ship conducting surveillance on you, but the US government tells you "No, we don't have any ships in your area", what exactly are you going to believe, especially when you're busy fighting a war?

 

[Bruxley]

Well it seems the defenders of Stormfront are hard at it. And the cries for the thread to be closed have been made. And the work to veer it off are in force.

We see through it guys. With the link the the pictures, the obvious efforts to sermonize the Jewish state of Israel and even claims that we went to Iraq FOR Israel that Stormfront position has been clearly made.

We have heard in other Paul threads the 'neocon' mantra from Stormfront repeated, the 'a vote for anyone but Paul is anti-constitution/un-patriotic/un-intelligent made almost verbatim from the Strormfront audio as well as the take down the Republican party over and over until the y put up a 'patriot'/lesser of 2 evils/ they'll see they can't win without us from that same audio, the virulent anti-McCain (for some reason) commonality with the Stormfront position, and the hero worship of Thomas Jefferson that emulates one of the banners at the top of Stormfronts forum.

All from the same folks that demonizing Israel here through great stretches and outright lies. We are to believe Israel stomps on children for fun and is a terrorist nation? Really?????

The curtain is gone. The relationships are obvious. As one post put it.....the shark has been jumped.

 

[JaserST4]

There were NO WMDs. I knew this even before the invasion, since it was clear what the Bush agenda was.

It should be even clearer now then. What is it? You just keep going further out on a limb. Every major intel agency believed he had them, even Saddam's own generals. He had plans for nukes as soon as some heat was off, this is all old news, you're stuck in a sound bite.


As far as the yellow cake smear campaign goes:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1665222/posts
At issue was whether Saddam Hussein ever sent a buying team to Niger looking for uranium yellowcake in the 1999-2000 period. After tea and crumpets with former friends in the Nigerian government, Wilson concluded that it never happened. At least, that’s what he says today.

(The definitive Senate Select Intelligence Committee report on pre-war intelligence on Iraq, released in November 2004, asserts unequivocally that Wilson lied in public about the conclusions he sent to the CIA about his Niger trip).

 

[Pat H]

A most excellent description of the current "Israel Problem"


Click the image to be taken to the book page.

 

[wingman]

In the fake world of politics one way to eliminate your opponent is scream racist, works great and will continue to do so until people learn to think.

 

[miboso]

Bruxley, I fail to see where anyone here is defending Stormfront. Please show where that is the case.

In fact, it appears that you and others with your views are the ones that are frequenting the Stromfront site.

 

[Fremmer]

Why did the Ron Paul campaign keep Stormfront's campaign contribution? It doesn't make any sense to me at all. Why take their dirty money? Its not like the Ron Paul campaign is hurting for cash. The Ron Paul campaign should have returned, or donated, the money faster than a dog shakes off dirty pondwater.

The most disturbing thing to me is the Ron Paul newsletter that stated that 95% of blacks are criminals, and that complained that black people have civil rights and can vote for other black people.

When you combine Ron Paul's association with the leader of Stormfront, his retention of Stormfront's campaign contribution, his past writings about how black people are criminals, and his recent statement that he wouldn't vote for the Civil Rights Act, I think there are some very serious problems with Ron Paul's candidacy.

But don't let me interrupt the conversation about how Israel is just like Hammas and other terrorists rolleyes, or about how bad Israel is. Which, or course, doesn't do anything to directly address Ron Paul's bizarre affiliation with, and support from, the white supremacist group Stormfront.

 

[Bruxley]

Bruxley, I fail to see where anyone here is defending Stormfront. Please show where that is the case.

In fact, it appears that your type people (edited while I was writing to read 'you and others with your views') are the ones that are frequenting the Stromfront site.

Defending Stromfronts messages is what is going on. AND emulating those messages.

I AM, as of yesterday when this whole parallel came to light, VERY interested in how much the similarities keep manifesting. And OH YEAH, I'll been visiting their site ALOT since yesterday. I will be checking in there regularly from here on to see what those 'people' are putting out and won't have any problem with pointing out future emulations. Seems pointing out that someone knows what there up to is often rebutted by 'what are YOUR TYPE people doing there'.

We aren't advocates for the Arabs.

Your telling us Arabs and Islamic radicals do dispicable things, we are agreeing with you.

We then tell you that Israel does outrageous and dispicable things.

Who are the WE and what do you mean by the 'your type people?'

Are the WE the more off-putting Paul supporters more often the same folks that regugitate the other Stormfront messages? And are the 'your type people' the folks that don't buy the messages being defended and emulated?

 

[Danzig]

OK...

Please close this thread...it's definitely gone south. Its dead and rotting.

 

[gc70]

Defending Stromfronts messages is what is going on. AND emulating those messages.

Strange, but I have not seen anyone saying "Here are Stormfront's messages and you should support them." I have seen Bruxley say that Stormfront and others share some common beliefs ("and the hero worship of Thomas Jefferson that emulates one of the banners at the top of Stormfronts forum").

I hope that coincidentally sharing common beliefs with others is not damning. It would be a shame to have to abandon the fight for the RKBA simply because some wackos happened to share my belief in the RKBA.

Disclaimer: I am not a Ron Paul supporter. I have never visited the Stormfront website, nor do I know what the group/organization stands for.

 

[Bruxley]

Of course an individual coincidental likeness does not a pattern make. Most Americans probably hold Jefferson in high regard as a founding father. The reach from that to bigot would be so far fetched that the word ludicrous comes to mind. The broad commonality is the point. Read post #19.

And to come out and say "I defend Stormfront messages" not only won't happen because the lack of courage of conviction but shame would also prevent it. The doing leaves no need to state the obvious.

As for the disclaimer, look into the subject of a thread before commenting. You may find the commonalities as startling as I do and be better able to see the point being made. The audio is especially revealing but the thread the pics are in alone paints a picture that is hard to deny.

I'm considering joining so I can delve into the search feature and user profiles. Reluctant to give then any IP info however. There are ways around that too however. I'm very curious to plumb the depth of this new revelation. Is this the answer to the huge phone/text/internet poll results that don't pan out in elections mystery? Is this the answer to the huge fund raising yet no manifestation in elections? I DO NOT assert that it does......yet.......but the curiosity is there. I think some further looking may yield even more revelations. It's been my experience that when things are initially obvious that there is more present with further looking.

This may even be national news worthy. A sharing of what's been uncovered already may get others doing the digging. Email a few links? I wonder if Fox would be interested.

 

[nate45]

Well the RP detractors have sunk to an all time low.

Before it was you are unpatriotic, a leftist, an Islamic sympathizer if you disagreed with U.S. mid east policy.

Now Paul supporters are Stormfront members ready to fire up the ovens all over again.

I can not speak for others only myself I am a liberatarian and have been for many years.

The liberatarian party is open and inclusive of all races and religions.

It is also is as far as you can get from Communism, National Socialism or any other brand socialism.

The fact that members of Stormfront hold certain racial views does not mean that they are politically naive or wrong in some of their stances.

Until their website was introduced on this form in the lame attempt to paint Dr. Paul as a racist I had no idea what their views were.

Neo-conservatives are not fictional 'boogy men' or what ever you called them. They are a real political sub-set with a real agenda. Part of that agenda is the protection of Israel at U.S. expense.

And to come out and say "I defend Stormfront messages" not only won't happen because the lack of courage of conviction but shame would also prevent it. The doing leaves no need to state the obvious.

Now if when state certain beliefs if there like unto are similar to Stormfronts position you are a crypto member without the courage to admit it and wether you do or do not you are a member.

Bruxley you are the lowest kind of mudslinger I have ever seen and are very fortunate these conversations take place on the internet.

Most thinking people will see who it was that introduced Strormfront into the equation and see past it as a petty sophmoric attempt to discredit RP and his supporters on this site.

 

[BoringAccountant]

Nate...

I have to say I completely disagree with you. Bruxley has only connected points A to B to C to D is his own way, you don't agree with them, fine, but I do not think its mudslinging or calling RP a racist, I think it begs an answer or explanation from the RP campaign why this happened, explain the pics and the audio, not just call it another smear campaign. I can vouch, and I am sure you can think back as well, Bruxley has not been a forefront RP detractor, but rather researching his own choice for POTUS.

are very fortunate these conversations take place on the internet.

As for this, c'mon tough guy, this is the internet, anyone can call anyone anything anyday, so lighten up, it's only a discussion.

Before it was you are unpatriotic, a leftist, an Islamic sympathizer if you disagreed with U.S. mid east policy.

I think you have it backwards, it was not only unpatriotic, but also ignorant to vote for anyone but RP because doing so is practically burning the Constitution. That is what the supporters of RP say, not the detractors.

 

[nate45]

I refute it thus

Republican presidential hopeful Ron Paul has received a $500 campaign donation from a white supremacist, and the Texas congressman doesn’t plan to return it, an aide said Wednesday.

Don Black, of West Palm Beach, recently made the donation, according to campaign filings. He runs a Web site called Stormfront with the motto, “White Pride World Wide.” The site welcomes postings to the “Stormfront White Nationalist Community.”

“Dr. Paul stands for freedom, peace, prosperity and inalienable rights. If someone with small ideologies happens to contribute money to Ron, thinking he can influence Ron in any way, he’s wasted his money,” Paul spokesman Jesse Benton said. “Ron is going to take the money and try to spread the message of freedom.”

“And that’s $500 less that this guy has to do whatever it is that he does,” Benton added.

Black said he supports Paul’s stance on ending the war in Iraq, securing U.S. borders and his opposition to amnesty for illegal immigrants.

“We know that he’s not a white nationalist. He says he isn’t and we believe him, but on the issues, there’s only one choice,” Black said Wednesday.

“We like his stand on tight borders and opposition to a police state,” Black told The Palm Beach Post earlier.

On his Web site, Black says he has been involved in “the White patriot movement for 30 years.”

http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/12/19/the-ron-paulstormfront-story-makes-the-msm/