Don Fischer
New member
Probably. But in a worst case, let's say the hunter does it all right. A bear at 100 yds+ doesn't pose a lot of problem's until it's wounded and close!
The 'ole aught six.....
- Thread starter Wildernesshunter
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disseminator
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300 Magnum.
But better yet would be a 175 in the 7mmRM
Bamashooter
New member
30-06 was the first caliber I ever reloaded. You can bet your a$$ I was nervous when I pulled the trigger on my Remington made 1903 Springfield. Everything went well and I ended up shooting a .84" group using 155gr SMK Palma bullets and IMR-4895 powder.
I can get much better performance hand loading the '06 than what is offered by ammunition producers with a few exceptions. You dont see very many companies pushing a 150gr bullet 3000fps and they push heavier bullets at much slower velocities than I can hand load them to. Factory loaded '06 ammo isnt near as fast as it could be for some reason.
I acquired a SA M1 Garand for my birthday last year and realized that factory loaded ammo was a little pricey so after checking a couple reloading manuals I started testing some loads and found a good one and put all this 30-06 brass I had laying around to good use. Hearing the clip ping for the first time when I was shooting the M1 was the coolest thing ever.
My T/C Venture is my newest hunting rifle and it shoots moa or better just about every time it goes to the range and so far I have yet to not kill any critter that gets in its crosshairs. I know that T/C has had their problems but the 5R rifling and 24" barrel appealed to me so I took a chance and Im glad I did.
I have plenty of other rifles but I love my 30-06's and their versatility.
I can get much better performance hand loading the '06 than what is offered by ammunition producers with a few exceptions. You dont see very many companies pushing a 150gr bullet 3000fps and they push heavier bullets at much slower velocities than I can hand load them to. Factory loaded '06 ammo isnt near as fast as it could be for some reason.
I acquired a SA M1 Garand for my birthday last year and realized that factory loaded ammo was a little pricey so after checking a couple reloading manuals I started testing some loads and found a good one and put all this 30-06 brass I had laying around to good use. Hearing the clip ping for the first time when I was shooting the M1 was the coolest thing ever.
My T/C Venture is my newest hunting rifle and it shoots moa or better just about every time it goes to the range and so far I have yet to not kill any critter that gets in its crosshairs. I know that T/C has had their problems but the 5R rifling and 24" barrel appealed to me so I took a chance and Im glad I did.
I have plenty of other rifles but I love my 30-06's and their versatility.
I have a ouple 3006's, one 700 and a Chinese 2 groove.
Both give me the best I can ask for for the caliber, and I dont mind hunting with them, except I haven't.
Owning a super shooting .270 win, and a new build in 6.5 Creedmoor, I can see those 3006's setting out a few deer seasons.
If I ever was able to hunt Alaska, my 3006 would go as well as my 7mm rem mag.
Loaded with decent bullets I wouldnt hesistate to shoot at any animal with either...
Both give me the best I can ask for for the caliber, and I dont mind hunting with them, except I haven't.
Owning a super shooting .270 win, and a new build in 6.5 Creedmoor, I can see those 3006's setting out a few deer seasons.
If I ever was able to hunt Alaska, my 3006 would go as well as my 7mm rem mag.
Loaded with decent bullets I wouldnt hesistate to shoot at any animal with either...
Everything else being equal in terms of bullet weight, rifle weight, length of barrel, using the same stock, etc; the .308 does have less recoil. I'm not sure what you mean by "sharper" recoil, unless you mean perceived recoil due to differences in the aforementioned factors (i.e., a differently configured stock). "Seems" translates to subjectivity, which is not the way recoil is measured.
Presently, I have a couple of rifles chambered in 30-06 and one chambered in .308 (I have had others chambered in these two cartridges that I've either sold, traded or given away in the past). Over the years, I haven't noticed any real difference in "killing" power when hunting whitetails nor any meaningful "perceived" recoil between the two cartridges. My .308s generally have been a bit more accurate but any slight advantage in accuracy they offered is of little practical consequence when hunting deer (or even groundhogs, for that matter).
I like both of these versatile cartridges equally but if I could only have one, I'd give up the extra 200 or so feet per second advantage the '06 has and go with the .308 and its slightly shorter receiver/bolt throw.
Nothing wrong with the "06", I owned one once, a Rem 700 synthetic in a Classic design with no cheek-piece, that thing beat me to crap, so I sold it.
It was very accurate though,
I have taken game with an 8x57 Mauser and it seriously dumps animals with a 170, 180, or 200 grn pill. I would take it for Bear, Moose or Caribou without hesitation.
I have a 7mm Mauser also, but have yet to take an animal with it, but feel it's fully capable.
My current fascination is with the 7.65 Argentine with 174 or 180 JSP's, I also feel totally equipped with it.
Any decent round with sufficient bullet mass will do the job, and like the "06", all of mine are over 100 years old and still performing like they always have.
Don't remember who quoted it (Col. Whelen I think) "The 30-06 is never a bad choice !"
It was very accurate though,
I have taken game with an 8x57 Mauser and it seriously dumps animals with a 170, 180, or 200 grn pill. I would take it for Bear, Moose or Caribou without hesitation.
I have a 7mm Mauser also, but have yet to take an animal with it, but feel it's fully capable.
My current fascination is with the 7.65 Argentine with 174 or 180 JSP's, I also feel totally equipped with it.
Any decent round with sufficient bullet mass will do the job, and like the "06", all of mine are over 100 years old and still performing like they always have.
Don't remember who quoted it (Col. Whelen I think) "The 30-06 is never a bad choice !"
30-06 is like a big truck. You can use it for hauling a lot of different things, so it is flexible. But is it the most fuel efficient vehicle? Maybe not.
It shines when one needs to launch a heavy projectile. Unfortunately that's not what it has ended up doing most, if not all, of the time. It is a waste for propelling a 150gr bullet. It can do it, no doubt. But it requires more power, the cartridge is heavier, the action is longer, uses more materials to manufacture the firearm, etc.
I like 30-06 for what it has been in history. But looking at it from any other angles, I have other favorites.
-TL
It shines when one needs to launch a heavy projectile. Unfortunately that's not what it has ended up doing most, if not all, of the time. It is a waste for propelling a 150gr bullet. It can do it, no doubt. But it requires more power, the cartridge is heavier, the action is longer, uses more materials to manufacture the firearm, etc.
I like 30-06 for what it has been in history. But looking at it from any other angles, I have other favorites.
-TL
That is true when considering calculating free recoil. The difference, however, is marginal and, I suspect would not be detectable by most shooters. The difference stems from the lighter powder charge.
In fact, given that the more efficient .308 Win case allows for higher velocities with some bullets and powders, it is entirely possible for the 308 to have more free recoil than the 06 everything else being equal. The difference, though, is very small.
Jack O'Conner
New member
The 30-06 is quite popular and deserves to be because of its long history of lethal performance. But in my opinion, it's too much power for deer at typical distances found in the forests. This cartridge does it's best work at long-ish distances, beyond 150 yards.
Jack
Jack
ShootistPRS
New member
The difference in recoil between the 06 and the 308 is that the 308 is typically put in lighter guns so the recoil velocity is higher. That makes the felt recoil harsher than the 06.
My 06 weighs 10 pounds and the recoil is a lot less than my brothers 7 pound 308. His shorter action and 20 inch barrel is a big reduction in weight. I've never had a problem carrying my 06 when climbing the mountains hunting. As for being too much gun for deer at close range - well, you can't have too much gun. I have used bullets as light as 130 grains for deer and as heavy as 180 grain under the same circumstances with the exception of my point of aim. That rapidly expanding 130 grain works very well with head and neck shots at any range out to 200 yards. Under those conditions you have the central nervous system and added to that you have major arteries and an air way in the neck all packed together and they all get damage from the light bullet. Body shots with the heavier bullets don't destroy a lot of meat unless you hit major bones - so you stay away from the major bones of the shoulder. You need to be familiar with the skeletal structure as well as the vital organs to put the animal down quickly and humanely. Wasting good meat by using the shoulder as a target can drop the animal but you lose so much of what you hunt for. I hunt for meat and I don't care about the rack. The more meat I get the less I have to buy.
My 06 weighs 10 pounds and the recoil is a lot less than my brothers 7 pound 308. His shorter action and 20 inch barrel is a big reduction in weight. I've never had a problem carrying my 06 when climbing the mountains hunting. As for being too much gun for deer at close range - well, you can't have too much gun. I have used bullets as light as 130 grains for deer and as heavy as 180 grain under the same circumstances with the exception of my point of aim. That rapidly expanding 130 grain works very well with head and neck shots at any range out to 200 yards. Under those conditions you have the central nervous system and added to that you have major arteries and an air way in the neck all packed together and they all get damage from the light bullet. Body shots with the heavier bullets don't destroy a lot of meat unless you hit major bones - so you stay away from the major bones of the shoulder. You need to be familiar with the skeletal structure as well as the vital organs to put the animal down quickly and humanely. Wasting good meat by using the shoulder as a target can drop the animal but you lose so much of what you hunt for. I hunt for meat and I don't care about the rack. The more meat I get the less I have to buy.
No single rifle could possibly "do it all."
Many have said the 30-06 comes as close as possible. Maybe. I'd rather be over powered for small stuff than under powered for big stuff.
Assuming I could load my own ammo to tailor for game I would choose a 300 Magnum as most versatile. Still couldn't "do it all" to perfection, but my choice as coming close.
I have a couple rifles in 300 H&H (I just like saying H&H) and this would work. For serious hunting I'd throw on a 1-5x Leupold scope.
Many have said the 30-06 comes as close as possible. Maybe. I'd rather be over powered for small stuff than under powered for big stuff.
Assuming I could load my own ammo to tailor for game I would choose a 300 Magnum as most versatile. Still couldn't "do it all" to perfection, but my choice as coming close.
I have a couple rifles in 300 H&H (I just like saying H&H) and this would work. For serious hunting I'd throw on a 1-5x Leupold scope.
My favorite woods rifle is an old Winchester 1895 rifle in 30/06. It's ugly but
always gets the job done. But one rifle? Would have to be a pre 64 m70 Win
in 300H&H to be practical. Actually my favorite rifle is a old Sako 375H&H. I
always liked the H&H cartridges and had 375-300-275 H&H magnums.
always gets the job done. But one rifle? Would have to be a pre 64 m70 Win
in 300H&H to be practical. Actually my favorite rifle is a old Sako 375H&H. I
always liked the H&H cartridges and had 375-300-275 H&H magnums.
I think that John has the perfect cartridge for Colorado Springs!
I have a 1952 721 in 30-06 my father bought for me back in 1966 to replace a Savage 99 in 250-3000.
Garand, 1903, 7400... my youngest son bought a Rem. 710 in 30-06. All are fine shooters. I also have .308, Win 100 & 88, M14SA and they work well also.
I use to hunt in CA and OR a lot... pig, deer, elk, squirrels with my 721... mostly because I liked it and it is fun to shoot. Mine will do 1.4 moa if I do my part... harder now that age and health is creeping up on me. I use to hunt with a great group of guys on a 12,000 acre ranch by Mitchell, Oregon and had as much fun shooting ground squirrels with 110 gr. spire points as elk and deer. All the guys used different calibers and argued their caliber was best for shooting, be it .270, .25-06 or .300 Weatherby mag. I can remember back in the 1980s having to track an elk for half a day that was shot with a 25-06 with the guy still boasting he got the 300# spike.
I believe my sons shoot 30-06 because I like it and they don't see anything really better. My youngest bought a Remington 710 after using the Winchester 100 in .308 and his father in laws .300 Win. mag. Another son uses a 2001 Rem 7400 with a synthetic stock in 30-06.
I have a friend that shoots his yearly moose in Alaska with a Win. 70 in 30-06. He bought it as his .257 Roberts wasn't doing the job.
I'm not into statistics but I bet the 30-06 is high on the list of which caliber is used the most for hunting large game in the continental USA.
I have a 1952 721 in 30-06 my father bought for me back in 1966 to replace a Savage 99 in 250-3000.
Garand, 1903, 7400... my youngest son bought a Rem. 710 in 30-06. All are fine shooters. I also have .308, Win 100 & 88, M14SA and they work well also.
I use to hunt in CA and OR a lot... pig, deer, elk, squirrels with my 721... mostly because I liked it and it is fun to shoot. Mine will do 1.4 moa if I do my part... harder now that age and health is creeping up on me. I use to hunt with a great group of guys on a 12,000 acre ranch by Mitchell, Oregon and had as much fun shooting ground squirrels with 110 gr. spire points as elk and deer. All the guys used different calibers and argued their caliber was best for shooting, be it .270, .25-06 or .300 Weatherby mag. I can remember back in the 1980s having to track an elk for half a day that was shot with a 25-06 with the guy still boasting he got the 300# spike.
I believe my sons shoot 30-06 because I like it and they don't see anything really better. My youngest bought a Remington 710 after using the Winchester 100 in .308 and his father in laws .300 Win. mag. Another son uses a 2001 Rem 7400 with a synthetic stock in 30-06.
I have a friend that shoots his yearly moose in Alaska with a Win. 70 in 30-06. He bought it as his .257 Roberts wasn't doing the job.
I'm not into statistics but I bet the 30-06 is high on the list of which caliber is used the most for hunting large game in the continental USA.
"The only cartridge I feel come close is the 7.5 Swiss, it has all the 06 has in a more efficient package. Sadly its too restricted to Switzerland to be a competitor. In a modern rifle, it will exceed the 06".
Seems to me someone set a long range record of something like 2241 yards in the last couple three years in Utah, using a 7.5 Swiss.
Seems to me someone set a long range record of something like 2241 yards in the last couple three years in Utah, using a 7.5 Swiss.
Yep. But I had less to do with the Swiss and just going it.
He missed about 15 times for each time he hit. He also took out the camera that was behind a steel plate 10 feet from the target.
He could have done it with a Model of 1917 as well.
I believe (and that must me, don't do it at home) my Savage build in 7.5 can get into 300 WM area as it is more efficient stubbier. Even with its lower loads it matches up to the 06.
As it shoots the same 308 calibers you have the full bullet choice.
I hope to make it the next thing in shooting but will see (grin)
Guy at the range asked what it was the other day. 7.5 Swiss, walks away with a bewildered look on his face.
I guess I should call it a 300 GUM. (my name, ultra mag)
He missed about 15 times for each time he hit. He also took out the camera that was behind a steel plate 10 feet from the target.
He could have done it with a Model of 1917 as well.
I believe (and that must me, don't do it at home) my Savage build in 7.5 can get into 300 WM area as it is more efficient stubbier. Even with its lower loads it matches up to the 06.
As it shoots the same 308 calibers you have the full bullet choice.
I hope to make it the next thing in shooting but will see (grin)
Guy at the range asked what it was the other day. 7.5 Swiss, walks away with a bewildered look on his face.
I guess I should call it a 300 GUM. (my name, ultra mag)
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
For a reloader, the old '06 is fun.
I've used an 00 Buck ahead of five grains of pistol powder for a squirrel or bunny load.
A swaged 80-grain .32-20 bullet ahead of a bunch of 3031 as a jackrabbit load. Nearly 4,000 ft/sec makes it a mini-grenade.
Most any 150-grain bullet kills Bambi out to 500 yards. 180s for elk.
What's not to like?
I've used an 00 Buck ahead of five grains of pistol powder for a squirrel or bunny load.
A swaged 80-grain .32-20 bullet ahead of a bunch of 3031 as a jackrabbit load. Nearly 4,000 ft/sec makes it a mini-grenade.
Most any 150-grain bullet kills Bambi out to 500 yards. 180s for elk.
What's not to like?
I tried a *bunch* of different loads with 75-grain JRN (.32 ACP) bullets in 7.65x53 and .303 British, from pipsqueak to hot-hot-hot, and they invariably keyholed the target past 15 yards or so.
A normal jacketed Speer 180 grain bullet would blow the back out of a 3-liter bottle of water. The hot 75 grainers would turn the bottle into shreds of melted-looking plastic and a dense fog of water vapor. If they didn't go boomeraging off at weird angles at such short range they might have been quite amusing. I suspect the 1:10-ish twist was unsuitable for the stubby little pistol bullets though.
A normal jacketed Speer 180 grain bullet would blow the back out of a 3-liter bottle of water. The hot 75 grainers would turn the bottle into shreds of melted-looking plastic and a dense fog of water vapor. If they didn't go boomeraging off at weird angles at such short range they might have been quite amusing. I suspect the 1:10-ish twist was unsuitable for the stubby little pistol bullets though.
Something from Jeff Cooper's Commentaries, back in December 1995: http://myweb.cebridge.net/mkeithr/Jeff/lindy2.html
Cooper's daughter Lindy wrote a long poem, the refrain being variants on, "seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."
Cooper's daughter Lindy wrote a long poem, the refrain being variants on, "seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."