The New York AG Takes Action Against The NRA

Status
Not open for further replies.
The NRA was first proposed in 1861, in part to address the poor marksmanship of Union Army recruits.
Union Army records for the Civil War indicate that its troops fired about 1,000 rifle shots for each Confederate hit, causing General Burnside to lament his recruits: "Out of ten soldiers who are perfect in drill and the manual of arms, only one knows the purpose of the sights on his gun or can hit the broad side of a barn."

General Ambrose Burnside was the NRAs first president. Several Union generals would follow him, including Grant.

In a way its ironic considering the neo-confederate bent the NRA seems to espouse today.
 
44 AMP said:
I'm not a lawyer, don't play one on tv and didn't stay at a Holiday inn so, could someone please explain to me, HOW the State of New York has legal STANDING to bring suit about how the NRA (a private organization that doesn't get govt money) spends their money internally within their organization???


I'm not arguing that LaPierre and company have seriously screwed the rank and file membership with lavish salaries and expenses, etc.

What I'm asking is, how is that the business of the State of New York???

And even if it is, somehow, how does the abuse by individuals justify the demand for complete dissolution of the organization??
Click to expand...

Not a lawyer either, but my take is it doesn't, it's just that this is a political hit job. It may not even be James herself that decided to do this from what I've heard, but rather that she was put under significant pressure by Democratic party power brokers to bring this suit. Remember, the NRA did play a role in helping get Trump elected in 2016. And they were pledging to spend tens of millions this election cycle. So this lawsuit will force them to spend that money on legal defenses.

It could also rile up the Trump base more, we'll see.
 
And they were pledging to spend tens of millions this election cycle. So this lawsuit will force them to spend that money on legal defenses.
Click to expand...

There's a technical point in here somewhere, about the NRA spending money on political matters. They don't. Not exactly. Its something nearly always overlooked when people talk about NRA money influencing elections.

Spending money for political purposes violates their tax exempt status. SO, they don't do it. The ILA does it. The Institute for Legislative Action is the non-tax exempt organization created by the NRA specifically to collect money and spend it on political causes. It gets none of the NRA dues money.

Yes its a small distinction, but it is a legal one. Money given to the NRA doesn't go to political action, money given to the ILA (NRA-ILA) does.

or so I understand it.

A question for anyone who knows about the NY laws, do they equate "non-profit" with "charity"???

The reporting states the NRA is being sued for violating the rules about "charitable organizations", which, I assume is just sloppy reporting, but might be accurate IF the NY laws being used consider non-profit and charitable organizations the same.

The NRA is a non-profit group, but to my knowledge are not and never has been a charity.
 
zxcvbob said:
Interesting (but not surprising) that they are going after the organization itself rather than criminal charges against WLP and the others.
Click to expand...
If what is being alleged is true, then Wayne and others are running the NRA like a private business, not a charity, and thus can be viewed as an asset. The "members" have a right to take their business elsewhere. There are many state and national gun lobbies who would love to have more members.
 
Spending money for political purposes violates their tax exempt status
Click to expand...

1. The NRA is a non-profit organization chartered in New York since 1871.

2. The NRA Foundation is a tax exempt organization chartered in Washington DC.

3. In an apparently co-ordinated effort, the DC attorney general also announced on 6 August that he was going after the NRA Foundation for violation of it's tax exempt charter. La Pierre and his cronies are accused of plundering the NRA Foundation and using the tax exempt funds for other purposes.

i've followed this dumpster fire since if first broke out at the NRA Convention last year.

In the New York Summons four individuals are charged with serious stuff: They are La Pierre, Phillips, Frazer and Powell.

BTW: This is not a civil lawsuit. It's a "we caught you cheating" action. Members of the NRA board of directors, La Pierre, Oliver North and numerous others have been deposed. The hard questions have been asked and answered. It's courthouse time.

i've read the Summons through twice. If folks really want to know what this is about read the Summons.

Disclaimer:

i ain't a lawyer, don't play one on TV. In my younger days i did sleep with a very pretty one for a long period.

Could the lawyers please comment.

Link:

https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/summons_and_complaint_1.pdf
 
Last edited:
LogicMan said:
It may not even be James herself that decided to do this from what I've heard, but rather that she was put under significant pressure by Democratic party power brokers to bring this suit.
Click to expand...

I suspect she's a willing accomplice. Quote from 2018, when she first became NY AG:

The NRA holds [itself] out as a charitable organization, but in fact, [it] really [is] a terrorist organization.

https://www.ebony.com/news/letitia-tish-james-on-becoming-new-yorks-next-attorney-general/
 
In an apparently co-ordinated effort, the DC attorney general also announced on 6 August that he was going after the NRA Foundation for violation of it's tax exempt charter.
Click to expand...

This is the same drivel they did in the 1990s. Gun control advocates claimed the NRA Foundation was secretly funneling money into the ILA for political use. There were IRS audits, and they found exactly nothing amiss. It looks like they're trying that strategy again.
 
This is the same drivel they did in the 1990s. Gun control advocates claimed the NRA Foundation was secretly funneling money into the ILA for political use. There were IRS audits, and they found exactly nothing amiss. It looks like they're trying that strategy again.
Click to expand...
Except that this time around (if news reports are to be believed) the NRA borrowed large sums from the NRA Foundation, and didn't repay it. That certainly muddies the waters more than a little bit.

And, since they were audited on this during LaPierre's time at the NRA (not necessarily as Executive VP), he certainly should have been aware of the issue and should have done everything possible to ensure that there was never a problem. More proof that Wayne LaPierre cares only for himself, and not for the NRA.

I'm not sure of dates. I think WLP started working for the NRA in the 1970s, and became Exec VP in 1991. So he has been there long enough to be aware that there has to be a firewall between the NRA and the Foundation, and between the NRA and the NRA-ILA.
 
Except that this time around (if news reports are to be believed) the NRA borrowed large sums from the NRA Foundation, and didn't repay it.
Click to expand...

It's no longer just news reports.

A. NRA Demands Loans from the Foundation
37. In order to address its cash flow problems and maintain the lavish expenses of its Executive
Director, officers, and “consultants,” the NRA used its control over the Foundation to raid the
Foundation’s funds. For instance, in October 2017, the NRA requested a $5 million loan from the
Foundation’s Investment Committee.
38. In assessing whether to extend the loan, the Foundation’s Investment Committee consulted
with the Foundation’s investment consultant, which agreed that the loan would “make sense” if
the NRA was able to repay the loan in three months and pay a 7% interest rate, netting the
Foundation a total of $87,500 in interest in that three month period.
Click to expand...

Scroll down to the part about the co-mingling of funds with no accounting for money borrowed from the NRA foundation.

Link to the DC attorney general's complaint:

https://oag.dc.gov/sites/default/files/2020-08/NRA-Foundation-Complaint-Redacted.pdf
 
Last edited:
Is someone mentioned above up for re-election or something like that?
I don't understand the legalese like some of the Legal Eagles here but I understand how to smell an election coming :)
 
The National Review article is heavy on political trash and very light on facts. It's true that the NY AG is an anti-gunner out to get the NRA, no doubt about that. However, corrupt Wayne Pa Pierre and his minions did what the anti-gunners were never able to accomplish, the neutering of the NRA.

1. There is no mention of the internal fight at the NRA Convention brought about by the demand of the President, one LTC Oliver North, for an outside audit of NRA spending. No audit was ever accomplished.

2. There is no mention of Wayne La Pierre's over reaction.

3. The author makes no mention of the 20+ members of the NRA Board of Directors who received money from the NRA for alleged "services" to the organization.

4. The author makes no mention of the silencing of NRA members by the Board of Directors at the request of Wayne La Pierre.

5. There is no mention of the default on a loan that caused the NRA to demand a loan from the tax free NRA Foundation. The borrowed tax free funds were co-mingled with NRA funds with no accounting for spending.

6. The fact that Wayne La Pierre spent $100 million dollars on lawsuits is not mentioned.

7. The author forgot to mention that William Brewer, head of the NRA outside law firm has supported anti-gunners, including Hillary Clinton. Brewer is also the son-in-law of the late CEO of Ackerman-McQueen, Angus McQueen, and brother-in-law of the current CEO.

According to the article, Wayne La Pierre and his cohorts are steadfastly hanging on while the gun hating "liberals" pound on the gates.

The NY AG is attempting to recoup millions of dollars from four current and former members of the NRA leadership.

In July, 2019 there was an article in Ammoland concerning the NRA debacle. There are comments by former NRA board members. i apologize for the title of the article.

https://tinyurl.com/yy8d5jmc
 
Last edited:
TXAZ said:
Is someone mentioned above up for re-election or something like that?
I don't understand the legalese like some of the Legal Eagles here but I understand how to smell an election coming :)
Click to expand...

The NY Governor and AG are not due up for reelection until 2022. However both would love nothing better than to be able to say "I destroyed the NRA" when election time does roll around.
 
Here is a good podcast to listen to concerning this issue: https://guntalk.libsyn.com/rss.

Take aways:

1. Several things can be true at the same time. The NYAG is anti gun and overreaching and will not be successful in dissolving the NRA. There is and was corruption within the leadership of the NRA.
2. This has been going on for years and is typical pathology for large popular and wealthy organizations (see Penn State scandal).
3. May not have that much impact on the 2020 election as the membership is where the real power is.
4. Will go on for years
 
Methinks the judge will not approve the dissolution of the NRA.

The judge will probably appoint an overseer to ensure the NRA leadership and board of directors comply with the bylaws and with pertinent laws of the state of NY.

Wayne La Pierre is a goner. So is the NRA counsel mentioned in the Summons. La Pierre, Joshua Powell and Wilson Phillips will be forced to give up some serious money and may be prosecuted.

If the administration changes the IRS will go after three with a vengeance.

Se Prayer For Relief beginning on page 163, forget A, B, and C:

https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/summons_and_complaint_1.pdf
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top