The Future of our beloved freedoms???

Perhaps he is as loyal to the Constitution as those who promote torture as legitimate expediency under the Constitution?
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Please provide proof that the United States has tortured ANYONE.

kthnx.

(Lew Rockwell and UFO sites don't count)
 
And how is that relevant to what I said? We have plenty of torture as expedient folks in another thread.

Also, spare me the waterboarding isn't torture hypocrisy.
 
And if you could spare us the ridiculous and borderline delusional implications that his middle name has any bearing whatsoever on his allegiance that would be greatly appreciated.
 
that his middle name has any bearing whatsoever on his allegiance that would be greatly appreciated.
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I don't think his middle name is a big deal, but his actions & words gives me suspicions of his real loyalties. Can I prove that...no...just my personal take.
 
And if you could spare us the ridiculous and borderline delusional implications that his middle name has any bearing whatsoever on his allegiance that would be greatly appreciated.
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Um...you know you're the only one who has attached any significance whatsoever to it other than it being his full name. Like Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Project much?
 
Um...you know you're the only one who has attached any significance whatsoever to it other than it being his full name. Like Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Project much?
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You mean except for the guy that started this thread. :rolleyes: Now if you had a habit of using full names for any of the candidates your argument would hold a little water but you don't. Don't play coy and don't play dumb.

If you want to attack the man on his ideas and principles go right ahead. I'd probably agree with you in regards to many of his policies but when you make asinine little jabs at his heritage and then shrug it off when called on your BS you're making the rest of us look bad.
 
I don't think his middle name is a big deal, but his actions & words gives me suspicions of his real loyalties. Can I prove that...no...just my personal take.
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Such as? Putting your hand on your heart during the anthem means nothing.

Wearing a flag on your lapel means nothing.

Neither of those are indications of ones loyalty or patriotism.
 
IIRC the original hand gesture for the Pledge of Allegiance went something as follows:
You stood with your right hand over you heart PALM DOWN, forearm straight and level, parallel to the ground. As the words "to the flag" you
extended your right arm PALM UP towards the flag. That gesture went out
around WWII as it looked to much like the bad guys' salute.
To get back to the original topic, we will have our beloved freedoms for as long as we are willing to
fight for them.
 
You mean except for the guy that started this thread. Now if you had a habit of using full names for any of the candidates your argument would hold a little water but you don't. Don't play coy and don't play dumb.

If you want to attack the man on his ideas and principles go right ahead. I'd probably agree with you in regards to many of his policies but when you make asinine little jabs at his heritage and then shrug it off when called on your BS you're making the rest of us look bad.
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Liberals sure do get rabid when they get caught out something they slipped up on, don't they? :D

"You didn't say what I interpreted you said even though you didn't say it, but that doesn't matter because I didn't say what I said, and...and...it's YOUR FAULT!"

LOL.gif


Seriously, if you want to argue with me, argue with something I ACTUALLY SAID.
 
Neither of those are indications of ones loyalty or patriotism.
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Well this is one of those opinion things, but I think it does have significance when a US Senator does not salute or show respect to our flag. Doesn't matter what the Senator thinks of our present Government. Just like when I was in the Army, I saluted the flag. I think Senators have a similar obligation...not loyalty test, but just common respect to our flag.

On the other hand, you can take a more globalist view and think Nationalism is the root of all evil. We could do away with the flag and any national symbols. We would need to re-name the United States because that in itself is a nationalist type name. We could call it the new world, or better still Brave New World. Then we could have the New world police to make sure we don't revert back into any nasty nationalist habits. Of course in order to keep order citizens would need to pledge allegiance to the new order. Those that failed to keep in step would be declared obsolete and sent to my home state of Kentucky to live in caves. Did I mention we would need to turn in our firearms, no need for them with the New World Police keeping order. See, our problems are not really hard to solve.:cool:
 
Now that this has got this far along, has anyone seen a whole clip or explanation of the freeze frame pic? It is just a frozen moment in time and what happened a split second later isnt known. He may well have put his hand on his heart and said what many seem to be worried about, or given some other salute, whos to say or know? All we do know is, they all look like they would rather be elsewhere and seem to be distracted and a little confused.

I'm still not convinced that this isnt some sort of propaganda thing and just something taken out of context to try and make someones point or agenda.
 
Here it is, complete with a video clip by ABC.
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Manedwolf, thanks for posting that video. Clear that he does not have hand over heart at any time.

Also, clear that he does not wear a flag at any time. If I remember his general explanation, he took his flag off just after 9/11 attack. He did not want to seem like a super patriot in reaction to the attack. If he was President do you think maybe he would not fly the American flag over the White House for fear of looking like a patriot?
 
Well this is one of those opinion things, but I think it does have significance when a US Senator does not salute or show respect to our flag. Doesn't matter what the Senator thinks of our present Government. Just like when I was in the Army, I saluted the flag. I think Senators have a similar obligation...not loyalty test, but just common respect to our flag.

On the other hand, you can take a more globalist view and think Nationalism is the root of all evil. We could do away with the flag and any national symbols. We would need to re-name the United States because that in itself is a nationalist type name. We could call it the new world, or better still Brave New World. Then we could have the New world police to make sure we don't revert back into any nasty nationalist habits. Of course in order to keep order citizens would need to pledge allegiance to the new order. Those that failed to keep in step would be declared obsolete and sent to my home state of Kentucky to live in caves. Did I mention we would need to turn in our firearms, no need for them with the New World Police keeping order. See, our problems are not really hard to solve.
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:rolleyes: So it's either salute the flag or give up our guns? What makes you think it has to be one extreme or the other? Why the hell do people think the world is black and white? Shades of grey, my friend.

Besides, nationalism and patriotism are not the same thing.
 
So it's either salute the flag or give up our guns? What makes you think it has to be one extreme or the other? Why the hell do people think the world is black and white? Shades of grey, my friend.
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You missed the point. Maybe my fault. It has nothing to do with shades or the like....just showing respect. I lived through the McCarthy era and I don't want anyone to have to prove they are some kind of super patriot or else be on a black list. Just basic respect...that's all. A US Senator (IMO) is not just some ordinary citizen. They do not have to agree with Bush or the Iraq war to show respect. In fact, I don't agree with either myself. I guess you just get or don't.

Ok I admit it I pine for the old says. I am now a Republican, but I was around during Truman's time. Oh, what I would give for a politician Like Truman that just tells it like it is. At least you never had to look behind the words to understand what Harry Truman meant...he would be more than glad to tell you exactly where he stood. And we had Elvis too. You guys are just living in the wrong age.;)
 
Just basic respect...that's all.
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The problem is there's no universal perception of "respect". I don't see that Obama was disrespecting anything at all. He wasn't giving the flag the finger, he wasn't turning his back to anyone, he wasn't talking during the pledge/anthem/whatever. He simply chose not to put his hand over his heart and chose not to wear the lapel pin.

I don't see how having one's hand over one's heart is any more respectful than what he did. It's a gesture, nothing more. Just because that gesture means more to some than it does to others does not mean he's being disrespectful.
And we had Elvis too. You guys are just living in the wrong age.
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As much as I like The King's music, had I grown up in that age I would have been kept from drinking from white water fountains, eating in white restaurants and being taught in white schools. Not to mention the fact that where I grew up I would have been savagely beaten for kissing another boy and quite possibly ostracized for believing that "my uncle is a monkey."

Thanks but the "good ole days" were only good for certain classes of people.
 
*Post edited by Admin due to language filter violation.

Please familiarize yourself with the forum rules before posting.
 
Thanks for posting the link Manedwolf.

I dont have much faith in most of what I see in most of the major media outlets, (or any of them for that matter) and I'm always trying to figure out how it is they want me to think, rather than them actually just reporting the "news". Our propaganda machine is a pretty good one, I suppose we brought over more than just rocket scientists after the war. :)
 
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