The Future of our beloved freedoms???

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dwatts47

New member
What do we think about this??







Respect
Senator Barack Obama, Governor Bill Richardson, Senator Hillary Clinton and Ruth Harkin stand during the national anthem.


Barack Hussein Obama's photo (that's his real name)......the article said he REFUSED TO NOT ONLY PUT HIS HAND ON HIS HEART DURING THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE, BUT REFUSED TO SAY THE PLEDGE.....how in the hell can a man like this expect to be our next Commander-in-Chief????
 

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I dont see anything wrong with it. At least he's honest about it.

I dont swear allegiance to anybody or anything, and especially not the federal government.

I was always under the impression that the government owed allegiance to us, not the other way around.
 
I was always under the impression that the government owed allegiance to us, not the other way around.
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+1

The only reason they put the hand over the heart is because the outstretch salute became politically problematic in the 40s. The whole pledge is the bs work of some Nationalist Socialist who was taken in by a company who wanted to sell flags and makes a mockery of patriotism when it is forced on the people to act a certain way.
 
Maybe I missed something, but...

I always understood it to be an affirmation of patriotism. Not a pledge of obedience to the govt, but to the nation, the flag, and the ideas under which this nation was founded.

Never was it a pledge to blindly believe the people in our govt were infallible (or even correct), nor a pledge of unquestioning obedience. A pledge to support our flag, our nation, and our form of goverment. All details are left to the idividual's concience.

Hand over the heart is the proper manner to salute the flag when in civilian dress. People in uniform slaute with hand to brow/cap. To the best of my knowledge, Americans have never used the straight arm salute., except as an insult.;)

Or maybe that was a straight finger salute?
 
I always understood it to be an affirmation of patriotism. Not a pledge of obedience to the govt, but to the nation, the flag, and the ideas under which this nation was founded.
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44AMP:

Thank you for not being so overly analytical that you missed the fact that A FREAKIN' PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE REFUSES TO SAY THE PLEDGE OF ALEDGANCE IN THE COUNTRY HE WANTS TO BE PRESIDENT OF!!!

Guess you and I are two of the few that have a problem with this.
 
You can add my name to the list, dwatts47. I certainly have no problem saying the pledge to our country.

Perhaps Obama would do better if it was a pledge to the U.N.?
 
The pledge of Allegiance is not to the politicians in the government, it is to the flag. A piece of colored cloth. And to the republic of the United States. Not a democracy(thank God) but a representative republic that is symbolised by that piece of cloth. The Flag is not holy, nor is it sacred, it is a symbol. A symbol of an idea that "all men are created equal". There are no Lords, or Peers (nobility) in this land. No rich man whose ownership of his property includes the people living on it. We tend to put rich and famous people on a pedestal and worship them but the truth is, they obey the same laws we do and have no more privilege. Money is power and they have power, but we can vote too.

I don't idolize the flag, but I love to see it displayed and I think it is the most beautiful flag on earth. It has a meaning far beyond any other flag on the planet because it is the symbol of freedom. If some idiot wants to burn the flag I say let 'em, because they will never know the freedom of living under its meaning.:)
 
True colors

Well, I guess you ought to respect Obama for standing by his principles (whatever the hell they are) and not falsely pledging allegiance, don't you?

On the other hand, nobody who won't honestly give the pledge will ever get my vote.

I respect it if you have some deep moral conviction and abstain from pledging, although I do not understand why you would have such a conviction. I can only believe that refusal to give the pledge must stem from a misunderstand of what is being pledged, and what the pledge is about. And if you are not bright enough to understand the simple pledge and the idea behind it, I don't think you are bright enough to hold ANY public office. Sorry, bad politician. No vote. And just from me, no donut either!
 
To the best of my knowledge, Americans have never used the straight arm salute., except as an insult.
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As Limey said, back in the pre 40's, the salute was an outstretched arm from the heart. They quit using it during WWII because it looked to much like the Nazi salute. Dont they teach these things in the schools today? Oh, wait, they seem to be very specific as to what they teach the children in the state run schools these days.

If pledging your allegiance to something makes you feel better, by all means, pledge away. Just because someone doesnt, doesnt mean they are un American or unpatriotic. Did you ever consider that it may be against Obama's religion to swear an oath or pledge allegiance to anything but his god?

Think about that before you answer and go off on an anti god tirade, his, yours, or otherwise. Its one of the reasons we are here as a nation today.

Its alright to not like Obama as a candidate. For the most part, I dont like any of them, and especially the standard, one party democratic/republican candidates. This whole pic seems to be just another political propaganda attack, and in its "moment in time" freeze frame, appears to be something trying to make someones point. All the people there seem distracted and looking off in different directions. You dont suppose that Obama placed his hand on his heart a split second later and pledged along with the rest of them, do you? How about link to the article and better yet, a clip of the whole thing leading up to and after that moment in time?
 
Saying the Pledge and putting your hand on your heart are not gestures that indicate patriotism, IMHO. They're easily done.

A true measure of one's patriotism is the degree to which one respects the Constitution. While it's likely that Obama is no better than any of the people in that picture who do have their hands on their hearts, it's also pretty damn likely that they're no more patriotic than he is, seeing how at least one of them has voted for stuff that amounts to wiping your butt with the Constitution.

The Devil can cite Scripture for his own purpose, the saying goes. Well, the biggest Statist would-be tyrant can say the Pledge of Allegiance, put a flag pin on their lapel, and wrap themselves in the flag. (Witness the picture as evidence.)

External gestures have precisely zilch to do with patriotism, especially when they're done at no cost to the person performing them. Just hanging Old Glory out in front of your house doesn't make you a patriot, respecting and defending the Constitution does.

Barack Hussein Obama's photo (that's his real name)
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Yes, we get it. Obama sounds almost like Osama, hence they must be the same. And Hussein is a raghead name, ergo he's a Muslim, regardless of what Christian church he professes to belong. Thanks for pointing that out to us unenlightened folk.

Of all the reasons why I won't vote for the guy, his name is probably the least important one.

Good heavens, man. "The future of our beloved freedoms"? Where was your indignation when they nullified the Fourth Amendment in the name of the War on Drugs? Where was it when they nullified the Fifth through Eighth Amendments in the name of the War on Terror?

But one of the Presidential contenders won't put his hand on his heart while saying the Pledge, and you're all over that...and his un-American name!

If you want to know why the future is looking grim for our freedoms, there's your answer right there.
 
If you want to know why the future is looking grim for our freedoms, there's your answer right there.
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+1

A pledge of alleigance has absolutely nothing to do with "our beloved freedoms". People that would make a big deal out of someone's refusal to conform are a much more serious threat IMO.
 
Chances are that Obama just wasn't paying attention to what was going on. I don't think a major politician would refuse to salute during the National Anthem as a political statement, which would undoubtedly cost him votes.
 
Assume for a second that he did intend it as a political statement.

Do you have more respect for a politician who stands by his beliefs even when running for the highest office in the land, even if he knows it will cost him votes...or one that says whatever he or she thinks the voters want to hear, who belts out the Pledge with hand on heart, and then turns around and works on policies that contradict most of what that flag is supposed to stand for?

I won't vote for either Obama or Hillary, but you can be sure I'd respect him more than her in that case. At least he'd be standing up for his beliefs regardless of their popularity. She's such an "all things to all people" vote whore that getting her to make a principled stand on an unpopular topic would be like trying to nail Jell-O to a wall.
 
So maybe he would also refuse to take the oath of office. Naw-- what was I thinking. He'd probably want to write his own though.
 
+1 Marko Kloos. Well and intelligently said. People get their knickers in a twist at some pretty unimportant stuff all the while ignoring the real evils that are taking place.
 
Hand over the heart is the proper manner to salute the flag when in civilian dress. People in uniform slaute with hand to brow/cap. To the best of my knowledge, Americans have never used the straight arm salute., except as an insult.
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The best of your knowledge is pretty poor.

1892pledgeofallegiance2hy7.jpg


Yes, I have seen several other pictures and read about this from many sources.

Saying the Pledge and putting your hand on your heart are not gestures that indicate patriotism, IMHO. They're easily done.

A true measure of one's patriotism is the degree to which one respects the Constitution. While it's likely that Obama is no better than any of the people in that picture who do have their hands on their hearts, it's also pretty damn likely that they're no more patriotic than he is, seeing how at least one of them has voted for stuff that amounts to wiping your butt with the Constitution.

The Devil can cite Scripture for his own purpose, the saying goes. Well, the biggest Statist would-be tyrant can say the Pledge of Allegiance, put a flag pin on their lapel, and wrap themselves in the flag. (Witness the picture as evidence.)

External gestures have precisely zilch to do with patriotism, especially when they're done at no cost to the person performing them. Just hanging Old Glory out in front of your house doesn't make you a patriot, respecting and defending the Constitution does.
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All of this.

Patriotism is not measured by how many American flags you can stick to your car. It's not measured by simple courtesies paid to the flag. The pledge of allegiance are just a bunch of empty words, ingrained into most of our heads before we even had a chance of understanding what they meant. I've been in a couple situations where it came up in the last few years, and I don't bother to say it. There's no point, and it carries no real meaning.

Nor do I generally put my hand over my heart for the anthem.

I guess you could argue that I'm not patriotic enough either...but then I'd suggest that I trumped all the hand-on-heart empty affirmations of allegiance the first time I raised my right hand and actually swore to defend the Constitution and the nation with my life. After the second and third, I feel like I'm covered.

Of all the reasons not to vote for somebody, this is probably the most asinine. I'll be interested to find out if this is meant as a statement the same way the flag pin thing supposedly was. If so, I say more power to him. Patriotism and service to country is about more than ribbons and flags and salutes, just like religion is about more than showing up on Sunday and holidays.
 
If Obama did get elected, all of our veterans who fought and died for our country so we could say the Pledge of Allegiance, would roll over in their graves.
 
Barack Hussein Obama's photo (that's his real name)......the article said he REFUSED TO NOT ONLY PUT HIS HAND ON HIS HEART DURING THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE, BUT REFUSED TO SAY THE PLEDGE.....how in the hell can a man like this expect to be our next Commander-in-Chief????
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dwatts47,
What article???? Do you have a link to the article?
 
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