The Forum should unite against Alberto R. Gonzales

[shootinstudent]

There are such things as Hispanic Americans

"It's more than obvious here as to who can't comprehend what organizational affiliation is at all as well as the "relationship" between Alberto Gonzales' and any Hispanic organization. I'll give you a clue:

ALBERTO GONZALEZ IS HISPANIC."

If that's not racism, I don't know what is. Does the fact that Colin Powell is black mean that he is a member of the Black Panthers?

How about the fact that Pat Buchanan is white, does that mean that he is a member of the KKK?

Your problem, black Iron, isn't with illegal immigrants, since they do not vote. Hispanic American citizens do vote, and they are just as American as you are. What exactly do you want "done" about the mostly AMERICANS who comprise groups like La Raza? Should we strip citizenship and voting rights based on race? Expel people based on their ancestry or political ideas?

Get serious. Even overlooking the fact that you're wrongly assuming a person's racial ancestry determines who they vote for, voters are Americans. They have just as much right to vote for who they choose, and build their states into communities that THEY want to live in as you do. If you don't like the idea of a country with the freedom to speak any language you please and to live in a way that you choose, then America is not for you.

 

[shootinstudent]

As to LA RAZA. Are you suggesting that their main goal ISN'T to take the Southwestern US away from us? That's what THEY SAY. NOT ME.

And you never got around to addressing any of the questions I asked. Like do you believe Kidnapper, drug dealer or hitman are PROFESSIONS that we need here in the US like they have in MEXICO and most the the rest of central and south america?

I'd suggest that about La Raza. It's mostly comprised of Americans, and most La Raza members I have ever met were extremely biased against illegal immigrants. They think, by virtue of being born in America, that they are much better than the third world types that come here from Mexico. Can I see a mission statement, or some form of proof, that La Raza intends to "take the southwest away from the United States"?

Also, you will notice that only the criminals said "professional" in man on fire. I suggest you ask some every day working Mexicans what they think of crime. Most of them are so fed up with it that they'd vote the death penalty in for every serious offense in an instant. There is lots of crime in Mexico because the government is ineffective and thoroughly corrupt, not because Mexicans do not recognize murder and theft as crimes. The very idea that people in Mexico approve of that is preposterous, as that is one of the reasons so many are so eager to leave Mexico and work in the U.S. They, on the whole, like the United States and admire its relatively safe streets and good living conditions.

Come on folks, let's quit being divisive, especially as shooters. We need more people, from all backgrounds on our side, not fewer.

 

[shaggy]

BI –

I’m sorry I can’t make it any simpler for your apparently double digit IQ, but if or when you can explain what exactly NCLR does to support AAMA or how AAMA is beholden to NCLR, or what constitutes this “affiliate” relationship, I don’t think we have much more to discuss. You base everything on the fact that there is an “affiliate” relationship between these two groups as evidence to damn Gonzalez, but you can’t even explain what one does for the other. Is it any more than a link on a website? Sharing of mailing lists? Referrals? You continually post the same irrelevant cut & pasted junk which is evidently above your reading level.

Your latest batch of cut & paste handiwork work answers nothing I asked, but I’m sure that’s the best your can come up with so you went with it anyway. It speaks to NCLR and its affiliates, but leaves blank the exact question I’ve been asking all along; how exactly are the two related? What does one do for the other that makes this an “affiliate”. I’m sorry if you’re too vapid to understand that, but I’m not used to dealing with a romper room mentality.

It's more than obvious here as to who can't comprehend what organizational affiliation is at all as well as the "relationship" between Alberto Gonzales' and any Hispanic organization. I'll give you a clue:
ALBERTO GONZALEZ IS HISPANIC.

Did you have to take off the white robes and hood to figure that one out? No kidding. But that’s the heart of the matter, isn’t it? Gonzalez is Hispanic and thereby wants to help Hispanics. Besides the fact that you’re obviously afraid you might lose your minimum wage job at the gas pump to some border jumper, whats the problem with that, if the Hispanics in question are US citizens? No, wait, don’t answer that – I really don’t need any more 5th grade cut & paste work from the likes of you.

Just re-stating what is obvious for anyone with average intelligence, but unfortunately isn't so obvious for you. Do you think Gonzalez was advocating a complete crackdown on illegals to Gov. Bush, given later the President's own POV of giving them blanket amnesty as well as citizenship? Given his past membership with the AAMA and his blatant pride in his Mexican heritage?

Get real you fool.

Well I'm sorry you’re such a dumb jackass, but if Gonzalez was an appointee of Bush as Gov., then Bush was setting the policy and making the decisions, not Gonzalez. I’d ask you to prove your assertion, but again, you can’t, won’t, and would ultimately cut & past whatever irrelevant crap you could find.

Shaggy, you have no respect for my position which I validate with your remarks about the "Christian Taliban", and worst of all, you have no respect for the 30 million unborn children that are brutally killed. Perhaps in that sick city that is NYC, such degeneracy is cool and hip with perverts and the youth they use for pleasure. The election of Bush as President precisely on the basis of 'moral values', especially in swing states, should reveal to you how extreme and utterly evil your views are in relation to the rest of America.

Hey, I tried to be nice and apologize but since you brought it up, why are Christians like you always trying to convert me and tell me I’m killing babies by advocating legal abortion? Because your blessed book of fairy tales told you so? Did the invisible man in the sky you talk to tell you that too? I’ll believe in what I know and I do know the Supreme Court has said its legal. I vote in a swing state, and I can tell you, it sure as hell wasn’t ‘moral values’ that people were voting for. But you’ll believe what you like – you obviously believe in fairy tales.

Got something to back that assertion up? Maybe you’re right, but I’ve never heard that reason ascribed to Ashcroft’s resignation.

What happened to all that political expertise, Shaggy? Your expertise on so-called crossover Republicans and Democrats, as if we had no idea? That's right, you still can't understand why Albert is unfit to be Attorney General. How could you possibly understand why Ashcroft would quit what gives him the highest positions of authority governing the law of the United States, unless it wasn't Bush's hideous stance on illegal immigration and his hideous and corrupt relationship with Vicente Fox of Mejico?

Why is it that Mr. Vicente doesn't want to discard from Mexico what is the strictest requirements for citizenship in the world, yet he feels he can dictate to America what our citizenship requirements are? America doesn't need the burden of Mexico and it's citizens.

Always the artful dodger, aren't you? Can’t simply answer the question so you ramble on about something else. This time its Vincente Fox. For crying out loud, for once just answer the damn question without babbling incessantly or doing yet another irrelevant cut & paste.

How about the majority of migrant laborers and low class wage earners who compromise much of that demographic? Wake up, they vote Democratic. Another good reason to stem this problem before it is too late.

Where I’m from there is a large population of migrant workers, mostly Mexican, and mostly illegal. They do not vote, since they’re NOT US citizens. The farms and businesses for which they work, however, would fail and send more US citizens to the bankruptcy court and unemployment line without their cheap labor.

These people live in surburban communites, not in violent urban enviornments, Shaggy. It's the false association of guns with crime and "racists" that let the Democrats spread all the crap they do about guns.

How did the terrorists destroy the WTC? With guns? Your assertion that the Democrats would've gotten anywhere with guns speaks more for your ignorance, especially given the fact that the main issues were moral ones concerning stem cell research and abortion.

And once again, the artful dodge. I asked you to cite for me what gun control laws Bush has signed, proposed, or advocated in his first term. You can’t do it because it doesn't exist. Bush isn’t anti-gun, regardless of what sound bites he gives the media to chew on. You’re just too stupid to understand sound political strategy. Nevertheless, the fact that the people those campaigns are targeted to don’t live in high-crime urban areas is not the point. Its that the ads create the impression (however false) in those people that the violent crime of the urban areas is coming to a quiet neighborhood near you and your kids. Yes its false, but the impression and fear it creates is real and it translates well into votes. Most Americans are too stupid to understand the true facts of the matter and they are swayed by mudslinging and fearmongering ads when it comes to the gun issue. Bush simply diffused that with a soundbite. Now once again, can you answer my question and cite for me what gun control laws Bush has signed, proposed, or advocated in his first term?

 

[Wallew]

SIS,

Your problem, black Iron, isn't with illegal immigrants, since they do not vote.

DO YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT? Illegal aliens have been voting in elections for DECADES. Illegally voting, yes. With false ID's that got them a drivers license and an SSI card. But voted none the less.

What exactly do you want "done" about the mostly AMERICANS who comprise groups like La Raza? Should we strip citizenship and voting rights based on race? Expel people based on their ancestry or political ideas?

SO, according to you we should just capitulate and give in to their demands? The US should give the mexicans the SOUTHWESTERN portion of the US?

Just curious.

Make no mistake, LA RAZA has way more MEXICANS in mexico supporting them than they do here in the US. But LARGE numbers who are supporting them here in the US are ILLEGAL ALIENS. According to US government census statistics, there are approximately ten million illegal mexicans in this country right now. Do you actually believe that this large number DOES NOT SUPPORT LA RAZA, whose publicly stated main goal is to 'return the Southwestern US to it's rightful owners'? Do you feel the US is NOT the rightful owner of the Southwestern US?

Just curious.

I ask you the same question I asked Shagman, which he has yet to answer. Do you believe that the US needs PROFESSIONS like kidnapper, drug dealer, or hitman in the quantities like they have in mexico and the rest of central and south america? Do we really need mordida and murder by 'PROFESSIONALS' who kill or 'disappear' thousands of mexicans EVERY YEAR?

Just curious as to what YOU think we should do with an organization that is trying to OVERTHROW a portion of the UNITED STATES? And make no mistake, that is their goal. THEY PUBLICLY STATE IT. Don't believe me? Go to one of their rallies. Or just order a video tape of one. I think La Raza will 'give' you one for a minor donation.

Let's be crystal clear. ANY immigrant who came to this country LEGALLY looks down their nose at illegal immigrants. Because they view them as 'cheaters' who did NOT jump through the hoops they did. Did NOT wait their turn to come in. Did not take all the civics and government classes we require of immigrants who wish to be legal US citizens. This goes FOR EVERY LEGAL IMMIGRANT who has become a US CITIZEN. They are PROUD of the heritage they left behind. BUT THEY ARE NOW US CITIZENS and not only respect our countries laws, they go out of their way to uphold them.

THAT CANNOT BE SAID for mexicans who slip across the border illegally. They number in excess of ten million right now. The last time we held an 'amnesty program', we 'pardoned' five million mexicans. Thank you BILL CLINTON. The 'amnesty program' prior to that 'pardoned' three million mexicans. Thank you Ronald Reagan. So, in the past twenty years, we've 'pardoned' eight million illegal mexican immigrants. Shall we try for eighteen million by 'pardoning' the current ten million illegal mexicans in our country right now? Where do we draw the line? Or should we just capitulate and let them have the SOUTHWESTERN US back, like they want.

If we actually did that, do you think that all those 'legal' immigrants would stay in the new MEXICAN SOUTHWEST? No, they would pack up and move to the real US. FOR EXACTLY THE REASONS YOU LISTED. Their illegal brothers would follow them shortly. History has proven this time and again. I listed two examples above. So, you think all this is OK?

Just curious.

 

[Black_Iron]

Is it just me, or has Shaggy officially proven himself to be a dunce?

 

[shaggy]

You contradict YOURSELF in this paragraph alone. Gun control isn't a primary voting issue for most people?

Then you say "Last year the dems would have used their fearmongering to make gun control an issue again and the would have clobbered us with it."

DUH, those two statements contradict themselves. THE ONLY REASONS dems did not was they KNEW it was a losing argument. Regardless of what YOU may think. YOU actually think KERRY knows doo-dah about firearms? Do you really think Kerry is a hunter? Did you NOT see him pandering to all us gun owners? Do you think he did that because 'gun control isn't a primary voting issue in this country'?

When I say a “primary voting issue”, I’m speaking about the single issue voter that bases their vote solely on the RKBA. Those voters are far outnumbered by voting blocks who base their vote on a myriad of issues, and who might ultimately be swayed to vote for or against a candidate on any one issue, including crime or gun control. Women were the largest single voting block in the last election and guns are not a primary issue to the vast majority of them. However, when they fear that their child’s safety in school may be compromised because an attack ad says “Candidate X is for making assault weapons legal” with video of an AK47 superimposed on footage of a schoolyard full of children, it can become a big issue for them…and not for our side.

Kerry’s shotgun photo op was a difficult issue for them and if you followed politics you would know they had a hard time in deciding to go with it. The fact is, in the critical swing states, hunting is a major pastime and by appearing with a shotgun Kerry tried to diffues the issue as Bush did with his statement about the AWB. Bush had no intention of advocating the renewal of the AWB or signing it, nor did Kerry have any intention of trying to bring true RKBA activists into his camp – it was only to try and obtain the swing middle voters.

As to LA RAZA. Are you suggesting that their main goal ISN'T to take the Southwestern US away from us? That's what THEY SAY. NOT ME.

OK, then show me where they say exactly that; that they are trying to take back the Southwest US from the US.

And you never got around to addressing any of the questions I asked. Like do you believe Kidnapper, drug dealer or hitman are PROFESSIONS that we need here in the US like they have in MEXICO and most the the rest of central and south america?

We already have them here but if you think its such a pervasive problem, maybe you’d like to show me evidence of how it will become a problem here, or an authoritative source that says it will. No offense, but your paranoid exhortations are not exactly what I’d call reliable information or well researched.

 

[shaggy]

Is it just me, or has Shaggy officially proven himself to be a dunce?

I was kinda wondering the same about you. But hey, I know that little jab was the best you could do and certainly easier than answering the question, so I'll not tax your addled brain any further.

 

[TheBluesMan]

Thread closed due to multiple violations of the forum rules.

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