The FLIP SIDE to "revolver vs semi" debates

Nickel Plated said:
Noone is saying that you should RELY on the sound to scare the attacker off right away.
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Maybe he's not saying it here, but I hear customers say this at least once a day at the LGS where I work, and about 95% of the time they're talking about intentionally using this sound to scare off an attacker. And that's a mistake in my opinion, because this means you had your chamber empty while you waited to get close enough for the intruder to hear it clearly.

I leave the chamber empty on my 870, but in a home-defense situation I'm racking a round into the chamber as soon as I pick it up. If that sound happens to scare away the intruder then that's great, but that wasn't part of my plan.
 
The reason to keep a shotgun unchambered is that they may not be drop safe. When you pick it up - you chamber it immediately. Sound effects are side effects.

I told a racker that if he was my opponent - after his rack - he would here a series of bang, bangs and rounds in his direction.
 
Great conversation here to be sure. Many lessons learned but the one key for me in terms of CCW is that whatever one chooses to carry and, because it can fail, carry not just an extra mag or speed-loader but a BUG. Absent this and it's good luck...
 
Interestedly enough, the sound of a 12ga. pump gun being racked is the same as the sound of a .410 pump gun being racked.....but the .410 is easier on the ears & the shoulder while being just as hard on the BG....
 
I think if I hear a 'bump in the night' I will grab my 9mm but quickly play my cell phone "Rack-the-Slide" App (and yes there is one) to scare off the bad guy/s...
 
The reason to keep a shotgun unchambered is that they may not be drop safe. When you pick it up - you chamber it immediately. Sound effects are side effects.
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^^^^^
This.

I just recently heard my boss repeat the line about the sound of a shotgun being racked but I didn't debate her because if the sound effect doesn't work, then what follows should.
 
I kept my 870 with no round in the chamber because if you put a round in the chamber then you have to either leave the gun sitting around needing only a bump of the trigger to make it fire, or put the safety on, and in a pinch I do not want to be trying to find the safety button and push it off, I want to be able to just rack and roll.
 
Glenn E. Meyer said:
The reason to keep a shotgun unchambered is that they may not be drop safe. When you pick it up - you chamber it immediately....
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And leaving a shotgun's chamber empty is reasonable because it's a two handed weapon, making using both hands to manipulate the gun a chamber a round a reasonable expectation.

But one might not have both hands available when needing to use one's handgun. Either a revolver or a semi-auto with a round chambered can be put to use with one hand.

Note that in the NYPD reports linked to earlier, officers report using their sidearms one-handed with some frequency. For example, in the 2012 report (pg 21):
...Of the 33 officers who reported their shooting techniques for ID AC incidents in 2012, 61% (20) gripped the firearm with two hands....
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In other words, of those reporting technique, 39% fired their handguns one-handed.
 
I wonder if the one handed firing was "stick the gun in the direction of the bad guy and pull the trigger" or, was the off hand busy holding an arm with a knife attached, pulling open a car door, fending off a stick to the head etc.
 
Old Debate. But Statistics?

No Written Statistics here . Just facts. As far as these failures go- EVERYONE- who has spent time at the range or just shooting with friends has seen one or more of these happen in person. Therefore I guess you could call these statistics in a way.

Scenario: Someone just broke into your house . You grab your weapon of choice. Possible failures:

#1 Semi-auto-
a. I know I keep it loaded at all times. Did I put one up the tube?
b. Where's that safety? (new gun scenario) or gun has 2 or 3 Lawyer safeties
c. I always leave the safety off and the chamber empty--jack a shell in,darn, didn't jack the slide right . Oops. Jam-
d. I manage to jack one in the chamber-Intruder now knows your general location.
e. I keep it cocked and locked. I click off the safety. Bang , Only got one round. Magazine wasn't properly inserted.
f. I did everything properly. Pull the trigger. snap. dud. Have to jack in a round under pressure. Intruder heard the snap of the hammer. Hope it doesn't jam .
g. I shoot one or two rounds and gun just plain jams.
h. My wife is home alone and has no idea of how I set my semi-auto for such emergencies. Doesn't shoot as much as I do.

#2 Double Action Revolver with transfer bar (no safety)-

a. snap-dud- I Keep pulling the trigger until round a goes off.(bad reloads)
b. pull trigger -bang- recoil backed out one of the bullets(heavy caliber guns)


My scenarios--
a. I pick up my DA Revolver with up to date, well manufactured, ammo--bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang
b. My wife picks up her DA revolver with up to date, well manufactured, ammo--bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang
c. I pick up my wife's DA Revolver with up to date, well manufactured, ammo--bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang
d. My wife picks up my DA revolver with up to date, well manufactured, ammo--bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang
 
Note that in the NYPD reports linked to earlier, officers report using their sidearms one-handed with some frequency...
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Demonstrated here. I love the reporter's accent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W8cHwNuqH4

With those ultra heavy DAO New York triggers, one handed firing become the ultimate "spray and pray"...


#1 Semi-auto-
a. I know I keep it loaded at all times. Did I put one up the tube?
b. Where's that safety? (new gun scenario) or gun has 2 or 3 Lawyer safeties
c. I always leave the safety off and the chamber empty--jack a shell in,darn, didn't jack the slide right . Oops. Jam-
d. I manage to jack one in the chamber-Intruder now knows your general location.
e. I keep it cocked and locked. I click off the safety. Bang , Only got one round. Magazine wasn't properly inserted.
f. I did everything properly. Pull the trigger. snap. dud. Have to jack in a round under pressure. Intruder heard the snap of the hammer. Hope it doesn't jam .
g. I shoot one or two rounds and gun just plain jams.
h. My wife is home alone and has no idea of how I set my semi-auto for such emergencies. Doesn't shoot as much as I do.
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Hmm, mine goes,
A) grab CZ SP-01 Phantom with NEBO under barrel light,



b) Engage, if necessary. Pistol is loaded with one under the hammer at all times, decocked to half cock notch and ready to go. It doesn't fail. :) My wife has her own CZ pistols and is completely aware of how they all operate. ;)

I don't feel badly armed with a revolver, but I have had revolvers jam on me in the past, sometimes with good ammo, due to unseen damage or other conditions. Doesn't mean I wouldn't take a wheelgun, carry one once in a while myself, and feel just fine, but for the night time/someone got through layers of security and the dogs time, I would prefer my semi auto, perhaps even this one, with a loaded magazine capacity of 19 rounds + one. That's a standard revolver loaded three times plus two. I pray I never need the first round, much less the last, but if trouble comes to me that I must deal with, I'd rather be standing with unused ammo in the mag than the opposite.

 
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Bezoar,

Ain't no doubt in my mind than a bullet from an '06 to the head will kill anything, including elephant were the bullet a solid. The fly in your ointment is that a rifle ain't very practical for carrying while shopping, etc.
 
Eight is Enough,

In a former line of work, our 870's never had a shell in the chamber. The magazine was full up of 00 buck shells. We had to rack it to use it.
 
I own both revolvers and automatics, and it's not a matter of one vs. the other. I have about a half dozen handguns secreted about the premises, and they're all revolvers. As is my CCW gun.
The reason is my erroneous, ill-informed anxiety about leaving springs compressed, firing pins under tension, all that incredible nonsense. Revolvers can be loaded and ready to shoot and still be completely at rest - nothing stressed or tensed. Completely inert, completely safe, with nothing to weaken or fail, no switches to throw or levers to thumb, and yet be instantly ready for action if needed.
But here's my hypocrisy - I also keep a Remington 1100 12 gauge shotgun in my bedroom closet if needed - fully loaded but unchambered. So, here I have a magazine spring fully compressed for relatively long periods of time between shoots (about 4-6 months). I also keep an AK47 Underfolder ready with a 75 round drum magazine. Why instead of a standard 30 round banana? Because the drum magazine spring is completely relieved, and only wound when needed.
OK, OK, I know, I'm nuts. Oh well, my dog loves me.
 
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