The FLIP SIDE to "revolver vs semi" debates

I think the debate can be divided into two groups. In today's world, a LEO could be much more apt to encountermultiple attackrrs, and therefore a rekiable high capacity semi-auto, and extra magazines would be more in order than a revolver. Thus making the higher capacity of te semi-auto more important.
In civilian concealed carry, with concealed being the operative word, lower capacity mouse guns, mini 9's, and compact revolvers are all capable of the one or two close range shots most encountered by a civillian in a self defense situation. So if one doesn't trust a semi.auto, the lower capacity of a revolver doesn't really make any difference.
 
Well during the US Army Pistol Tests of 1911 the Colt 45ACP fired 6,000 rounds without a failure. Over 100 years have passed and the 1911 has proved itself admirably in two World Wars and many smaller conflicts. No doubt quality semiautos have improved since then but still, that's reliability we all can heartedly accept.

When using proper ammo and magazines, quality semiautos are just as reliable as quality revolvers so pick the one that suits you best.
 
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downlo...ypd_annual_firearms_discharge_report_2012.pdf

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/analysis_and_planning/afdr_20111116.pdf

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downlo...ypd_annual_firearms_discharge_report_2011.pdf

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/analysis_and_planning/AFDR200920101101.pdf

I'm sure you could find the archives from when they carried primarliy revolvers...if anybody has the time and energy, it might be interesting. If you Google NYPD Firearms unit annual report (and year) you can see quite a few of them.
 
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lower capacity mouse guns, mini 9's, and compact revolvers are all capable of the one or two close range shots most encountered by a civillian in a self defense situation.
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The wording of this makes it strictly incorrect.

The most common DGU involves 0 shots fired. When shots are fired, the average is said to be 1-2 shots fired. It is important to view this with the understanding that most DGUs do not result in the death of the threat. The 0-2 shots range is so common largely because most offenders aren't determined attackers. This is part of why we hear about "number of shots fired", as opposed to number of hits to resolution. I expect that many 1-2 shots fired incidents involve 0 hits.

It is also important to note that that 1-2 shot average isn't calculated because every incident involves 1-2 shots fired. Informing events include a number of incidents where 6+ shots are fired. The averages remain pretty low, simply because of the frequency with which the BG needed only to be scared to end the threat. The numbers would probably look different if we looked only at incidents where the DGU resulted in the offender dying within 5 minutes of the start of the event.


This post is not a pitch for the value of capacity, though it plays into why I choose to carry what I do. Rather, this post is to say that we need to understand that anomalies happen, and that it is up to each of us to decide where our lines are drawn. We're all clearly on a sliding scale, somewhere between "bad breath is my lethal force option", and "I carry an M249 when I have to wear shorts, and can't conceal my Abrams", after all.
 
Normally I'd say revolver if it's a Ruger , S&W, Colt. That being said I have an LC9 that hasn't jammed since I bought it, 2 years now so I do trust it. I'm still more likely to carry a a 642 rev. The other autos I have or have had have had hiccups for one reason or other.
 
The most common DGU involves 0 shots fired.
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This is why I'm considering carrying a gun shaped block of foam rubber.

It is legal to carry without a license, it's light, safe for pocket carry, ammo is universally (un)available and doesn't hurt when you fall on it. 100% reliable in the most common DGU.
 
This is why I'm considering carrying a gun shaped block of foam rubber.

It is legal to carry without a license, it's light, safe for pocket carry, ammo is universally (un)available and doesn't hurt when you fall on it. 100% reliable in the most common DGU.
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I suppose that's one take away.

I prefer to consider the possibility of 1 or more determined attackers, so I carry a Glock 19 Gen 4.

High 5 for individual choice!
 
I am not so sure revolvers are more reliable that semiauto handguns.

I have used a S&W 5904, a Sig P-229, & an H&K USP, and never once did one fail to do anything except fire when I pulled triggers. In contrast, I have seen a Model 566, a Model 15, and a Model 60 fail.

For me, I'd trust my life to a Sig P-229 before I'd trust it with any revolver. I am sure others see it differently. I'm good with varying mileage.
 
SGT127:
Thanks for those stats, veeeerrrrry interesting, Im looking forward to setting aside some time where I can really dig in to them!

But alas... It seems we're not getting much data as to the original question on this thread...

I'm beginning to conclude that in the the SD "semi vs revolver" debate, there really seem to be no stats to back up either side (which means Ive learned something: that the debate seems to be all based on opinion).
 
Been hearing that hoary story about the sound of a shotgun being racked for years, never heard much saying it was true.
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I have no idea about the "effectiveness" for SD, but the sound does count as a "warning shot" for the USCG when boarding.
As far as "giving away your position", the vast majority of buglers are in it for the easy money, not to get into a firefight. If they know you're awake, and armed they'll most likely move on to an easier haul. I think a lot of us tend to overestimate the determination and cunning of the average criminal. Even if they are the murderous type, who wants to go through a door that's being covered by a shotgun?
That being said, I use an AR rather than a shotgun for my HD long gun.


As to the original question:
With modern autos kept in good condition, is there even a real statistically significant difference in reliability? Other than ammunition issues related to cheap practice stuff, I very rarely have any issues with my autos.
Maybe 1-2/1000 rounds when I had my 1911, and none yet with any of my polymer wonder 9's.
It's entirely possible that revolvers are still more reliable, but we're talking about 0.01% to 0.001% chance of failure.

On the flip side, the chances of needing a semi's extra capacity are also quite low.

It seems like it's really a more a question of preference than anything else.
 
So we have a post where someone has never had an auto fail, but has seen 3 different revolvers fail.

One side of the coin.

In the past 30+ years, I have owned over a dozen auto pistols and revolvers (each). EVERY one of my autos has, at some time had at least one malfunction. NONE of my revolvers ever has.

Other side of the coin.

Basically, if you have a good auto (and ammo) it won't malfunction.
If you have a good revolver (and ammo) it won't malfunction.

If you don't, it will.

Flip your coin, take your pick.
 
The revolver v semi auto reliability debate is to me like manual versus automatic transmission,

When auto transmission came out they were clunky, heavy, burned fuel like hell, and prone to expensive mechanical problems, for years manual transmissions were better, then as years went on people decided auto transmission was easier to use, the technology improved every decade, by the 1990s the stick shifts advantage was 2 or 3 mpg over a similar auto car. By 2002 all advantages had dissapeared entirely.

Same with revolvers, the new semi autos have eclipsed the revolver in reliability and practicality, but the revolver, much like the stick shift, will always be better in the minds of a devoted fan base.

Now I own revolvers, I love my revolvers, even carry them sometimes, but the glock 19 has every advantage over the model 10 ....
 
<-- the glock 19 has every advantage over the model 10 ....

A statement like that assumes there exists only one type of gun owner, and one type of shooting scenario. What you have there is a sweeping generalization, and there is plenty of evidence to the contrary - from, "arthritic hands have trouble with slides," to, "3rd and 4th Gen glocks throw brass in the face," to, "revolvers are point and shoot, and clean more easily," to, "not every self defense situation will call for 15 shots of 9mm." I could go on...
 
Generally agree that SAs today are pretty much similar to revolvers in reliability, but not totally equivalent. Having said that, all the data (including the comprehensive NYPD annual reports) indicate that firearms confrontations seem to be settled with an average of less than three rounds fired by both sides. So my own take based on the available data is that the capacity argument is based on opinion and emotion, rather than data from actual shootings. If having a lot of rounds, as opposed to 5 - 8 is important to you, then own a SA. OTOH, a revolver allows you to select a variety of power (38, 38+P, 357) & bullet types (WC, SWC, HP, etc.). I know the females in my fmily prefer revolvers because it's easy to determine whether it's loaded, and the "point and pull the trigger" simplicity is important. Note that the NYPD duty and off-duty arms are now virtually all SAs, and their data show almost one-fifth the discahrges by police are unintentional.
I am biased about the NYPD data, having worked for them for 3 years, but they are the largest city PD in the nation, and they are compulsive in their data collection.
 
Stats?

Hey, all, remember, the intention of this thread was to share stats that could shed light on this "semi vs revolver debate"...
I guess there are really no such stats.
Oh well, if we've learned nothing else, we've All learned that!
 
Bill,

A lot of the more recent NYPD stats list malfunctions also. They have been doing that report for years. I recall hearing that in the history of the NYPD, there was never a revolver malfunction that resulted in an officer being injured or killed. They may have run out of ammo, but not a revolver failure. I don't know where you could find the firearms reports back from the revolver era though.

I cannot remember where I heard that. Or even if its true. But, with 40,000 Colt, Smith and Ruger revolvers on the street at one time, the NYPD would likely be the best source for info.

They had some issues with the Glock 19 when it first came out, a really funky hard jam that was tough to clear.
 
Hey, all, remember, the intention of this thread was to share stats that could shed light on this "semi vs revolver debate"...
I guess there are really no such stats.
Oh well, if we've learned nothing else, we've All learned that!
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I gave you some stats earlier. The Colt 45 ACP semiauto - 6000 rounds with 0 malfunctions in 1911. Our military found that acceptable so replaced their revolvers and the 1911 performed admirably as our issued sidearm for 74 years. Its successor was another semiauto.

Worldwide, compare the number of revolvers vs. semi autos used by military, government agencies and police. The stats are overwhelming. But still all that doesn't mean that your sample of one (your choice of a defensive handgun and its individual performance) will live up to the statistics.

So no matter how much data you have ... go ahead, choose what you want, either type of handgun is reliable if you do your homework and buy quality ... and don't get a lemon.
 
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I have both. Why limit yourself to 50% ?
Each caliber has it's strong and weak points.
I do have a 40S&W revolver that shoots with moon clips, but as a rule only a few of the calibers are available in both formats, (revolver and Pistol). Once you know the round that you want to use, the rest of the decision making should be easier. I like the 9mm or 38 Special in town, and a 44mag in the woods.

The problem with statistics is they do not match the situation I am usually in. You can site military data, but I am not using a handgun for a backup to a rifle, nor am I carrying ball ammo for defense. Even experts disagree on what is best. Look at the different rounds used by the different Police agencies. some 9, some 40, some 45, some 357sig, some 10mm, Many carry revolvers as backups. The #1 one shot stopper is still the 357 mag in 125gn I believe.
 
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