The FBI has NOT committed to 9mm
- Thread starter KyJim
- Start date
Right, the FBI may not buy new pistols right away.
What HAS already happened is that the FBI has changed their view from saying that 9mm is not sufficient for their needs to clearly stating that it provides a "decided advantage for our armed law enforcement personnel".
They may not have committed to buying new pistols yet, but it does seem clear that they have committed to 9mm when they finally do get around to buying new pistols.
HisSoldier
New member
When I saw the other thread I wondered why the OP thought it was "awesome", perhaps he is in an occupation that makes it likely that the FBI will shoot him, and he now assumes that he will survive if shot?
"The FBI is officially going to the .22 short, Awesome!"
Why does it matter, is it about egos and caliber wars? Or would it mean that ammo would be cheaper?
No matter what the government says, I don't believe anything they say anymore anyway, and if they said that a certain caliber was more effective in a gun fight I would assume the opposite is true.
Because Ft. Hood was terrorism, not workplace violence, and the borders are not more secure than at any other time in history, and that is just the start.
"The FBI is officially going to the .22 short, Awesome!"
Why does it matter, is it about egos and caliber wars? Or would it mean that ammo would be cheaper?
No matter what the government says, I don't believe anything they say anymore anyway, and if they said that a certain caliber was more effective in a gun fight I would assume the opposite is true.
Because Ft. Hood was terrorism, not workplace violence, and the borders are not more secure than at any other time in history, and that is just the start.
Arizona Fusilier
New member
I am a little confused by the alleged "justification" memo (I too would like a link to the original source, with all due respect ).
It makes the bold statement "Hangun stopping power is simply a myth", and then talks about the need for "immediate incapacitation".
Exactly what did they think "stopping power" was? If anybody thought it was lethality, or "knockdown power" (another naive term I often read on these boards), than the author is really ignorant, or just setting up a strawman argument to prove their prejudice.
And whoever said penetration was not a legitimate factor in stopping power?
Still want a link to the original source, like I requested in the other/original thread. But right now, I am not impressed. Which is not to deny the FBI is making moves toward 9mm. The solicitation is in fact indicative of serious intent, although not a done deal.
It makes the bold statement "Hangun stopping power is simply a myth", and then talks about the need for "immediate incapacitation".
Exactly what did they think "stopping power" was? If anybody thought it was lethality, or "knockdown power" (another naive term I often read on these boards), than the author is really ignorant, or just setting up a strawman argument to prove their prejudice.
And whoever said penetration was not a legitimate factor in stopping power?
Still want a link to the original source, like I requested in the other/original thread. But right now, I am not impressed. Which is not to deny the FBI is making moves toward 9mm. The solicitation is in fact indicative of serious intent, although not a done deal.
I read that article and posted a link to one of the sources for in in the firearms press. I wondered why the only places to print this article were the firearms press and blogs. I questioned it's accuracy, if it is actually an official statement from the FBI, so I went looking for it at the FBI's website which includes links to the Training Center. I could not find the quoted article there. A link to that site is below and maybe someone else can find it.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/training/firearms
tipoc
NJgunowner
New member
It's amazing what people here will latch onto to continue the caliber war debates. Who cares what the FBI uses lol, I'm going to use what I like I could care less what anyone else is using.
Malcolm Reynolds
New member
Yeah, I agree with everyone who's said that it really doesn't matter what the FBI chooses to use. Politics and budgets surely play more of a role than anyone would admit.
But come on... that quoted article isn't a government document. It's just not. Have you read anything written by a government bureaucrat? They don't say things like "Handgun stopping power is simply a myth." They are long. And boring. And dry. And they mostly don't say anything. They certainly don't make bold, sweeping statements like that.
But come on... that quoted article isn't a government document. It's just not. Have you read anything written by a government bureaucrat? They don't say things like "Handgun stopping power is simply a myth." They are long. And boring. And dry. And they mostly don't say anything. They certainly don't make bold, sweeping statements like that.
That's kinda what bothers me...The pursuit of a magic bullet.
There are a number of factors involved in selecting a gun and ammo for a large law enforcement organization. Most of which do not effect the choice of the individual citizen shooter for self defense or sport.
The push here seems to be that now that the FBI has said (if we can find someplace where the FBI actually said it) that the 9mm offers them a "decided advantage" over other calibers of ammo and bullets means that it is OK again to like it, or that it's now "approved for self defense" strikes me as odd.
The 9mm is a good round. Always has been. You get the best bullet for it you can, like always and it will work.
Over the last chunk of years various fellas and studies have told us the 10mm is best, the 9mm with a 147gr. bullet is best, the 40S&W with a 180 gr. bullet is best, the 357 Magnum with a 125 gr. bullet is the King of the "all time one shot stop" hill, the 357 Sig is best, 45 is best, offers a "decided advantage" etc. This seems to be the latest iteration of that sales pitch. They come in waves.
Does provide fodder for internet debates.
tipoc
There are a number of factors involved in selecting a gun and ammo for a large law enforcement organization. Most of which do not effect the choice of the individual citizen shooter for self defense or sport.
The push here seems to be that now that the FBI has said (if we can find someplace where the FBI actually said it) that the 9mm offers them a "decided advantage" over other calibers of ammo and bullets means that it is OK again to like it, or that it's now "approved for self defense" strikes me as odd.
The 9mm is a good round. Always has been. You get the best bullet for it you can, like always and it will work.
Over the last chunk of years various fellas and studies have told us the 10mm is best, the 9mm with a 147gr. bullet is best, the 40S&W with a 180 gr. bullet is best, the 357 Magnum with a 125 gr. bullet is the King of the "all time one shot stop" hill, the 357 Sig is best, 45 is best, offers a "decided advantage" etc. This seems to be the latest iteration of that sales pitch. They come in waves.
Does provide fodder for internet debates.
tipoc
Shadi Khalil
New member
If they do switch, what's my end in all this? How much more or less is this switch (if true) going to cost? If it saves money I'm all for it.
I just received this email 30 seconds ago from the contracting officer:
Mr. Turner,
Thank you for the below inquiry. At this time the government is not releasing procurement sensitive information on the upcoming requirement. The weapons listed in the presolicitation notice, to include the semi-automatic pistol, are not a new requirement. The agency has utilized 9mm pistols in the past. Please continue to monitor Fedbizopps for additional postings concerning this requirement.
Thank You!
JENNIFER R. UNGER
Contracting Officer
Federal Bureau of Investigation
Operational Support Contracts Unit
------------------------------------------------
Look at the wording. She said "upcoming requirement".
Mr. Turner,
Thank you for the below inquiry. At this time the government is not releasing procurement sensitive information on the upcoming requirement. The weapons listed in the presolicitation notice, to include the semi-automatic pistol, are not a new requirement. The agency has utilized 9mm pistols in the past. Please continue to monitor Fedbizopps for additional postings concerning this requirement.
Thank You!
JENNIFER R. UNGER
Contracting Officer
Federal Bureau of Investigation
Operational Support Contracts Unit
------------------------------------------------
Look at the wording. She said "upcoming requirement".
dakota1911
New member
I thought if you were FBI you have been able to use a 9mm if you qualified with it. I don't know maybe you could use a .45 if you qualified with it.