The continuing militarization of police

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Being a police officer, IMO, means you should be prepared... within the constraints of your dept's budget. It also means you have a duty to act and behave reasonably, or risk upsetting the citizenry (people like me).

DocFox said:
And I don't remember who suggested it, but it is true, late teenage ravers are peaceful non drug/alcohol users that respect authority and sing koombayah (forgive the spelling, and yes...major sarcasm intended).
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Of course most of them use drugs, and some of them use illegal drugs, or drink while underage. Of course many of them have problems with authority. Somehow, I just don't think that's justification for sending in a contingent of conspicuously armed police in fatigues and helmets to break up a rave. Is it any wonder they have problems with authority? They weren't responsible for whether the rave organizer had the proper permit (says he did, police say he didn't).

There are several other ways the police could have handled it without intermixing with the crowd. For instance, the music and lights drive the rave, and music and lights require electricity. Why didn't they tell the crowd to disperse via a bullhorn?

The operation didn't look very coordinated. If there had been some cop-killing arch-criminal among the ravers, I shudder to think what the result would have been... police firing into the crowd? Wasn't the whole thing a procedural no-no, sending armed LEOs into a large crowd, which is not overly friendly to police to begin with, looking for scattered illegal activity? The result they got, a metric ton of bad publicity, is the best possible outcome.
 
jimpeel

Long time no see. Too bad you haven't grown. :(
Still the same old thinly veiled LEO bashing... :(

First, siding with no info (other than "text from someone"), second, continuing the tradition.

It matters not what an LEO wears, or how he looks. It matters what he does (that's right, we're talking about actions).
When lacking clearly negative actions, bashers/flamers look for something else, and "militarization" is one of the tacs.

The Officers could show up in chain mail, and all that should matter is their conduct.

Otherwise, all you are doing is appeal to emotion, "something looks bad", no different then what the hand-wringing bed-wetting anti-gunners do when they bleat about the "evil black rifles". Grow up, move on!

I see jimbo is still using the old photos of the MP5's on the Motorbikes (gotta love the admitted speculation of "Full-auto", in effect admittance of bias coloration).

Take just a minute and think of mounting a long gun (term means something with a stock) on something as challenging as a Motorcycle. Compactness comes into issue very quickly, and no effective long gun is shorter than the MP5 w/folding stock. Try to put a AR-15 on a bike, you'll soon see the issue.

Soooooo, in closing, either work on your admitted bias, grow, or just stop the thinly veiled LEO bashing (and hand-wringing/whining, I get enough of that from the Anti-gunners).

TBO






ps. Here's a link to a recent "incident" at an alcohol free club

http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/news/local/12982592.htm

Three Police Officers suffered minor injuries and one adult and three juveniles were taken into custody early Sunday when police were called to the Splash Beach Club, 2803 W. Superior St., to disperse a crowd of 60 to 80 people who were fighting in the street.

Police arrived at the scene at 12:46 a.m. The club is an alcohol-free club open to ages 18 and older on the weekends.

According to a Duluth Police Department press release, a group of 20 to 30 people refused to leave. The four people taken into custody were charged with rioting, obstruction of the legal process with force, disorderly conduct and assault.

 
IIRC back in the 70's National City CA PD had shotguns on their motorcycles, in mounts muzzledown in front of the saddlebags. Society did not collapse then, I doubt it will now that they've switched to buzzguns.

Threads like this make me wish that we had compulsory public service, including a couple year tour as a cop.
 
Threads like this make me wish that we had compulsory public service, including a couple year tour as a cop.
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I for one try to never judge without walking a mile in a man's shoes, and having had random conversations with police officers in a variety of situations, pulled over, casual while walking down the street, friends who are officers, I know that police officers are humans like myself with families, hopes, and fears.

However I also realize from a historical perspective things have changed in this country, since the beginning starting with the Revenue Cutter Service and similar, how police presence and punishable crimes have changed, crimes in which the only 'victim' is the State. My great-grandfather was a County Sheriff in Iowa and how I wish I could talk to him today to find out from someone who has walked those miles and more, to find out really how things have changed. Instead I have to rely on recorded history to tell an accurate tale, which may or may not be the case.

It is not individual officers that I fear, nor officers with fully-automatic rifles, BDU's, and armored personnel vehicles, but I do fear the policies and the 'Wars' that they are ordered and paid to enforce, policies contrived by those who will never walk one step on an officers shoes and have some distant personal political or monetary agenda to fulfill. And finally I fear those that blindly follow those orders without any logical thought of what it is like to be on the recieving end, or what those policies and 'Wars' truly mean regarding freedom.
 
It also means you have a duty to act and behave reasonably, or risk upsetting the citizenry (people like me).
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I remember when the Rangers at the Russian River campground traded in their Benelli M1 Super 90s for lever guns, becasue the tourists got scared when they saw guys protecting them from bears with black guns....:D

Bet lots of the guys who get nervous when they see a cop with a sub gun got no compunction about open carrying in their best scruffys and soccer mommy sensibilities be damned :)

WildthetwoedgedswordAlaska
 
Hello guys...I'm comming in late here, without much to add, but it sure seems like I heard of this 'raid on a rave' quite some time ago.
 
Dear DocFox

I am not anti police, public servant. I am anti "law enforcement". To "enforce" means you have no mind of your own. You merely "enforce" the law without thinking. If I get elected and manage to influence enough people to pass a bill that says "all LEO's who don't do what I say is a crime" is that right? Would you "enforce" that law? You can call me all the names {"fruitcake"}you want but my home is mine for now and I'll protect it any way I see fit. It is my constitutional right. Too militarized? Front page of my morning papers showed "Law enforcement" in Helmets with MP-5's and full auto. Our local County has a stash of all kinds of full auto from small arms to 30 cal. They have gotten them free of charge. I doubt mine is the only one in on this program. If you re-read my post you'll find that I have all the respect in the world for my local police chief. I think he's one of the finest individuals I've ever had the honor to know. I doubt he would have declared martial law and started taking guns away from law-abiding citizens. Too bad he is in a minority these days when it comes to "professional" LEO's.
 
Too bad he is in a minority these days when it comes to "professional" LEO's.
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Source?
confused.gif



(or "generalization", ie: "bias")
 
Guess I'm in the minority too, along with all I work with (+4). Oh, and my step-father and the five other people on his dept that I know personally. Oh, and the guys I worked with at the academy..... oh, and....... For every person I can name that makes a bad cop, I can name 20 good ones. And unless you're LEO, I doubt you've had the exposure to the sheer volume of officers that I have. I'll take my anecdotal evidence over yours.
 
How Sad

The minute I bring up anything near reality I'm labled "My guess is your rap sheet is as long as your winded talk". Wrong idiot! I don't have any convictions nor have I ever been charged. You are what is wrong. You can't think for yourself. You are convicted by your own words. I hope that by posting what I have posted that some of you whose sole identity is LEO will start thinking for themselves. It seems that "BreacherUp!" can't. How sad.
 
Sumabich, you crack me up. Where is your "anything near reality." Show me. I can't think for myself. Hmm, and how did you come to that conclusion? What is my background, education, religion? You do not know anything about me. However, what you have written has pretty much been seen as inflamatory and on the third ring of Jupitor. You have shown your true colors. The colors of a bigot.
Bro, take a breath and realize that "the man" is the guy next door, the guy whose kid plays on the same team as your kid, the guy who hunts in the same area as you. Another words: a guy (or gal, sorry ladies).
 
I have just one question thats not incredibley relevant. During the shootout in LA, why didn't the LEOs use slugs in their shotguns. I know the BGs had bodyarmor and full auto Aks (I think, but not the point). But I'm sure a 1oz slug to the chest would at least have knocked the breath out of the BGs and put them on their backs. Probably done much worse. It seems many LEOs had/have 12ga shotties in the cruisers. Do they think they only need 00 Buck? I would think a 12 ga slug would be just as effective as a .223 on a BG with body armor.

Edit: didn't mean to interrupt you two.
 
When you can't win you name call.
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Oh, let us recollect shall we....?
Wrong idiot!
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and,
I am anti "law enforcement"
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and,
"Law-Enforcement" types (notice the dropping of "protect and serve, public servant is gone")
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and,
God pity you if you show up at my door with your little flash bombs and .223. I'll kick your FREAKIN A$$ TIME TO START OVER!
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Did I miss anything, or are you talking out of your backside again. For someone who proclaims
just "tellin" the facts
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, your "facts" are as squared away as a football bat.
Hit the rack. It's been a hard day fighting off the man.
 
75Scout. Good question. Unfortunately, LAPD officers must qualify with slugs. Not every officer is permitted to carry. Same thing with the AR 15. My partner was there, and he said there were not enough officers who were "qualified." Fortunately, things have changed. But, that is the real crux of this post. Some just can't understand that there are some bada*ses out there.
 
When you can't win you name call.

Law-Enforcement" types (notice the dropping of "protect and serve, public servant is gone") So you see LE as a name call?
"your "facts" are as squared away as a football bat. (WTF)
Hit the rack. It's been a hard day fighting off the man. (Y0U BE CARRING ON!)
You do not know anything about me. (AT THIS POINT DON'T WANT TO) However, what you have written has pretty much been seen as inflamatory and on the third ring of Jupitor. You have shown your true colors. The colors of a bigot.
Yes, I too can cut and paste! The fact remains that you don't get it.
I am not anti police, public servant. I am anti "law enforcement". To "enforce" means you have no mind of your own. You merely "enforce" the law without thinking. YOU DON'T GET IT. THINK MAN! Think for yourself. Liberty is job one!
 
Not much to add, although I had to hit this one:

>Try to put a AR-15 on a bike, you'll soon see the issue.<

I have... either the issue wasn't as bad as you think, or I (with three years riding experience) have more skill on two wheels than the motorcycle officers
 
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