The Constitution Needs an Amendment
- Thread starter invention_45
- Start date
applesanity
New member
Not every home is heated by natural gas. Many are heated by oil. Gasoline comes from oil. If you use more oil to heat up homes, there will be less oil to make gasoline.
It's my understanding that crude oil is refined, and the different hydrocarbons extracted, without regard to the desired end product, i.e. the refining process extracts all the petroleum products at the same time. There is an illustration at this link:
http://www.howstuffworks.com/oil-refining2.htm
From Crude Oil
The problem with crude oil is that it contains hundreds of different types of hydrocarbons all mixed together. You have to separate the different types of hydrocarbons to have anything useful. Fortunately there is an easy way to separate things, and this is what oil refining is all about.
The oil refining process starts with a fractional distillation column.
Different hydrocarbon chain lengths all have progressively higher boiling points, so they can all be separated by distillation. This is what happens in an oil refinery - in one part of the process, crude oil is heated and the different chains are pulled out by their vaporization temperatures. Each different chain length has a different property that makes it useful in a different way.
To understand the diversity contained in crude oil, and to understand why refining crude oil is so important in our society, look through the following list of products that come from crude oil:
Petroleum gas - used for heating, cooking, making plastics
small alkanes (1 to 4 carbon atoms)
commonly known by the names methane, ethane, propane, butane
boiling range = less than 104 degrees Fahrenheit / 40 degrees Celsius
often liquified under pressure to create LPG (liquified petroleum gas)
Naphtha or Ligroin - intermediate that will be further processed to make gasoline
mix of 5 to 9 carbon atom alkanes
boiling range = 140 to 212 degrees Fahrenheit / 60 to 100 degrees Celsius
Gasoline - motor fuel
liquid
mix of alkanes and cycloalkanes (5 to 12 carbon atoms)
boiling range = 104 to 401 degrees Fahrenheit / 40 to 205 degrees Celsius
Kerosene - fuel for jet engines and tractors; starting material for making other products
liquid
mix of alkanes (10 to 18 carbons) and aromatics
boiling range = 350 to 617 degrees Fahrenheit / 175 to 325 degrees Celsius
Gas oil or Diesel distillate - used for diesel fuel and heating oil; starting material for making other products
liquid
alkanes containing 12 or more carbon atoms
boiling range = 482 to 662 degrees Fahrenheit / 250 to 350 degrees Celsius
Lubricating oil - used for motor oil, grease, other lubricants
liquid
long chain (20 to 50 carbon atoms) alkanes, cycloalkanes, aromatics
boiling range = 572 to 700 degrees Fahrenheit / 300 to 370 degrees Celsius
Heavy gas or Fuel oil - used for industrial fuel; starting material for making other products
liquid
long chain (20 to 70 carbon atoms) alkanes, cycloalkanes, aromatics
boiling range = 700 to 1112 degrees Fahrenheit / 370 to 600 degrees Celsius
Residuals - coke, asphalt, tar, waxes; starting material for making other products
solid
multiple-ringed compounds with 70 or more carbon atoms
boiling range = greater than 1112 degrees Fahrenheit / 600 degrees Celsius
You may have noticed that all of these products have different sizes and boiling ranges. Chemists take advantage of these properties when refining oil.
badbob
Note: This is an example of an off topic post. It is left here because it was made prior to my warning. Antipitas
http://www.howstuffworks.com/oil-refining2.htm
From Crude Oil
The problem with crude oil is that it contains hundreds of different types of hydrocarbons all mixed together. You have to separate the different types of hydrocarbons to have anything useful. Fortunately there is an easy way to separate things, and this is what oil refining is all about.
The oil refining process starts with a fractional distillation column.
Different hydrocarbon chain lengths all have progressively higher boiling points, so they can all be separated by distillation. This is what happens in an oil refinery - in one part of the process, crude oil is heated and the different chains are pulled out by their vaporization temperatures. Each different chain length has a different property that makes it useful in a different way.
To understand the diversity contained in crude oil, and to understand why refining crude oil is so important in our society, look through the following list of products that come from crude oil:
Petroleum gas - used for heating, cooking, making plastics
small alkanes (1 to 4 carbon atoms)
commonly known by the names methane, ethane, propane, butane
boiling range = less than 104 degrees Fahrenheit / 40 degrees Celsius
often liquified under pressure to create LPG (liquified petroleum gas)
Naphtha or Ligroin - intermediate that will be further processed to make gasoline
mix of 5 to 9 carbon atom alkanes
boiling range = 140 to 212 degrees Fahrenheit / 60 to 100 degrees Celsius
Gasoline - motor fuel
liquid
mix of alkanes and cycloalkanes (5 to 12 carbon atoms)
boiling range = 104 to 401 degrees Fahrenheit / 40 to 205 degrees Celsius
Kerosene - fuel for jet engines and tractors; starting material for making other products
liquid
mix of alkanes (10 to 18 carbons) and aromatics
boiling range = 350 to 617 degrees Fahrenheit / 175 to 325 degrees Celsius
Gas oil or Diesel distillate - used for diesel fuel and heating oil; starting material for making other products
liquid
alkanes containing 12 or more carbon atoms
boiling range = 482 to 662 degrees Fahrenheit / 250 to 350 degrees Celsius
Lubricating oil - used for motor oil, grease, other lubricants
liquid
long chain (20 to 50 carbon atoms) alkanes, cycloalkanes, aromatics
boiling range = 572 to 700 degrees Fahrenheit / 300 to 370 degrees Celsius
Heavy gas or Fuel oil - used for industrial fuel; starting material for making other products
liquid
long chain (20 to 70 carbon atoms) alkanes, cycloalkanes, aromatics
boiling range = 700 to 1112 degrees Fahrenheit / 370 to 600 degrees Celsius
Residuals - coke, asphalt, tar, waxes; starting material for making other products
solid
multiple-ringed compounds with 70 or more carbon atoms
boiling range = greater than 1112 degrees Fahrenheit / 600 degrees Celsius
You may have noticed that all of these products have different sizes and boiling ranges. Chemists take advantage of these properties when refining oil.
badbob
Note: This is an example of an off topic post. It is left here because it was made prior to my warning. Antipitas
oldbillthundercheif
Moderator
Y'all are flat-out wrong.
The Senate's long terms allow for stability in government. If they had to go on the campaign trail every year or so, senators would have to twist in the winds of political fads just like congresscritters do.
If the system you fellers propose would be put in place, the whole face of government would change so rapidly and often that it would be near-impossible for representatives to take a long-term view of any issue. They would have to flip and flop according to the latest poll numbers rather than take a stand according to their own ideals.
The Senate's long terms allow for stability in government. If they had to go on the campaign trail every year or so, senators would have to twist in the winds of political fads just like congresscritters do.
If the system you fellers propose would be put in place, the whole face of government would change so rapidly and often that it would be near-impossible for representatives to take a long-term view of any issue. They would have to flip and flop according to the latest poll numbers rather than take a stand according to their own ideals.
I'm with oldbill on this one. The only thing shortening the terms would do is make the candidates campaign continually, rather than only during the last year of their term. The result would be politicians who did not lead, but rather, were nothing more than professional campaigners.
It's a nice thought, shortening the terms. However, I don't think it would create the desired effect.
Remember, the Framers instituted a government of checks and balances. In order for checks and balances to work, change within the bureaucracy must be relatively SLOW, so that the other branches of government have time to act and circumvent poor decisions. Quick and immediate change in the government is NOT a good thing. Quick and immediate change in the government results in laws that are passed speedily, with little or no thought to their intended consequences.
It's a nice thought, shortening the terms. However, I don't think it would create the desired effect.
Remember, the Framers instituted a government of checks and balances. In order for checks and balances to work, change within the bureaucracy must be relatively SLOW, so that the other branches of government have time to act and circumvent poor decisions. Quick and immediate change in the government is NOT a good thing. Quick and immediate change in the government results in laws that are passed speedily, with little or no thought to their intended consequences.
Geoff Timm
New member
1. House of representative proportioned by population and elected by the people in their districts. Minimum of 5 per state, total 999, limit, one four year term, staggered. Campaign donations limited to persons residing and eligible to vote in a specific district.
2. Senate, 2 senators per state, appointed by state legislature for one 6 year term. Salary to be determined and paid by the State.
3. No Congressional representative, House or Senate may serve in any office, elected or appointed, with the exception of the military, for a period of time equal to twice the time spent in the legislature.
4. Separation of Powers, lawyers are forbidden to serve in Congress, Senate or the Executive branch of Government, except for positions like Attorney General which require a lawyer.
Geoff
Who is too tired to type out others.
2. Senate, 2 senators per state, appointed by state legislature for one 6 year term. Salary to be determined and paid by the State.
3. No Congressional representative, House or Senate may serve in any office, elected or appointed, with the exception of the military, for a period of time equal to twice the time spent in the legislature.
4. Separation of Powers, lawyers are forbidden to serve in Congress, Senate or the Executive branch of Government, except for positions like Attorney General which require a lawyer.
Geoff
Who is too tired to type out others.
Shane Tuttle
Staff
Invention45,
Although I disagree with your thoughtful insight, I wonder if instilling term limits on Senators and House Reps would really be a great start to resolve the problem you present.
Prime example: Ted Kennedy and the likes would no longer be in office. The Big Dig project is just one of many items that's a complete disaster financially that Massachusetts residents' grandchildren is going to have to fork over the dough.
I also agree on only providing benefits to current seat holders. After your term is up, so are your perks.
What do you think?
Although I disagree with your thoughtful insight, I wonder if instilling term limits on Senators and House Reps would really be a great start to resolve the problem you present.
Prime example: Ted Kennedy and the likes would no longer be in office. The Big Dig project is just one of many items that's a complete disaster financially that Massachusetts residents' grandchildren is going to have to fork over the dough.
I also agree on only providing benefits to current seat holders. After your term is up, so are your perks.
What do you think?
"I've heard it said that we already have term limits.........the ballot box."
Exactly. Though I detest some of the perennial politicians we have to put up with (like Kennedy, Feinstein, and Boxer) I think it's fundamentally wrong to deny the people the right to elect whoever they darn well please to represent them.
Tim
Exactly. Though I detest some of the perennial politicians we have to put up with (like Kennedy, Feinstein, and Boxer) I think it's fundamentally wrong to deny the people the right to elect whoever they darn well please to represent them.
Tim
Shane Tuttle
Staff
"I've heard it said that we already have term limits.........the ballot box"
Unfortunately, most people aren't into politics enough to see what kind of politicians are representing them. So, a fresh face may be the best...
Tim,
I see your point, but I still stand by my suggestion. We have term limits on the President, so why not other seats?
Unfortunately, most people aren't into politics enough to see what kind of politicians are representing them. So, a fresh face may be the best...
Tim,
I see your point, but I still stand by my suggestion. We have term limits on the President, so why not other seats?
Two modest proposals
- All federal laws (and regulations?) would have a mandatory sunset after 10 years.
- Prior to passage, any federal law would have to be read aloud three times, with a majority of the members of the respective chamber (House or Senate) in physical attendance.
Lottery
You want to go to DC? Throw your name in the barrel with all the others. Pull names untill there are enough to fill the seats for your state. They pick two to be Senators. Leave the times in office the same as now. Once your name has been picked or you lose interest you never get to go to DC again. The President can be picked from the pool of former Senators. Pay to be determed by the people.
Just my opinion, P5
You want to go to DC? Throw your name in the barrel with all the others. Pull names untill there are enough to fill the seats for your state. They pick two to be Senators. Leave the times in office the same as now. Once your name has been picked or you lose interest you never get to go to DC again. The President can be picked from the pool of former Senators. Pay to be determed by the people.
Just my opinion, P5
targetshootr
New member
I lean towards no limits for prez too. Heck, it's only law because a certain party got tired of losing to FDR. Just think how less bad things would be if Bubba Elvis was still at bat. No Iraq, the rest of the world wouldn't hate us, and we still might have a surplus. Yeah, the bad ol' days.
Hmm, I think it is a good protection. Luckily there is a bill going through now to make voting transparent (paper trail, open source code that is audited, etc) There is something scary about being able to subvert an election and nobody is the wiser. It is the basic principal of our country.
Saddam got 100% of the vote, remember? I wouldn't exactly call that a democratic election, though.
