Aguila Blanca
Staff
Hmmm ... I have an FM Hi-Power. Now I'll have to check to see if it has a magazine disconnect. I believe it does.zxcvbob said:
The Browning High Power....
- Thread starter SIGSHR
- Start date
Building a gun oversized for its intended cartridge is hardly a drawback of the HP; that's what gives the gun its elegant proportions and slim profile.
I was watching "Forgotten Weapons", a great show on youtube, and a viewer asked if the HP would benefit from light rails, optics compatibility, etc., to bring it into the 21st Century, and bring it back to market, and the satisfying answer was that the CZ75 and its derivatives ARE the 21st Century HP.
If you want larger calibers, DA trigger, light rails, etc, there are a dozen different variations from Tanfoglio and CZ.
The HP Mk. III is pretty awesome, as is.
I was watching "Forgotten Weapons", a great show on youtube, and a viewer asked if the HP would benefit from light rails, optics compatibility, etc., to bring it into the 21st Century, and bring it back to market, and the satisfying answer was that the CZ75 and its derivatives ARE the 21st Century HP.
If you want larger calibers, DA trigger, light rails, etc, there are a dozen different variations from Tanfoglio and CZ.
The HP Mk. III is pretty awesome, as is.
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
FN hasn’t built a Hi-Power with a single action trigger under 8lbs in decades.
The civilian model I bought. In 1960 in Manchester UK, at the Gun Shop in Withy Grove. Was in the window, with a price tab of twenty pounds! $40.00.
I went in, "Whats that, a deposit?" There was only me and the young sales man
in the shop! He pulled me over, closer to the counter.
"It's on consighnment, the owner was an A-ole! He was a civian contractor, on a 2 year contract. To Malta. Bought it from a Browning and Sterling sub gun dealer in London. Just to export. You could not buy to keep in England.
His first day on the job, he put a shoulder holster on, complete with his new pistol. First MP that saw him, confiscated it for the two years he was there.
Arrived back in Manchester, the Police confiscated it. He tried to get it back, he stated he would be joining a gun club? They said it did not work that way.
Marched him off to the gun shop. Apprently he was just as popular with the Cops as he was with everyone else he dealt with. I was a Gun Club member since I was 18, and owned 2 pistols already, just needed to enter it into my local Police data, and write it on my Permit. "Is this a target pistol?" I was asked "I can shoot targets with, can I not?" I said. "Fair enough" the reply.
Not a bad price for a gleaming spotless new Civilian finish BHP. Walnut Grips, two 13 round magazines. And a shoulder holster. I had Harry Hickys Gun shop in Toronto, smooth the trigger down to 4lbs, and remove the magazine disconnect!
Prior to leaving England, I was shooting on a Military Range I had permission to shoot on? Dont ask! When a Secend Lt. With a squad of 4 Sqdys challenged me to a shooting match, at 20M, me with my BHP, him with his Sten Gun, a Sub Gun set on Semi. I beat him, the "Box" turned out to be a case of NATO Mil Spec 9mm. What a deal, I still paid for a round of pints of Guinness!
On closing, a story about (W.H.B Smith's Small Arms of the World) I was in the Ontario Supreme Court in Toronto. Waiting to give evidence in an expert witness Capacity. When I bumped into Johnny Sombrero, I biker who I knew.
As I had a lot of time before I was set to testify, I went to see his case (To do with the Police trying to confiscate his collection of converted from Full Auto FN 762 Rifles) Johnnys Expert in the witness stand. Big book open in font of the Crowns Expert. Bunch of little yellow stickly markers protruding.
"Do you mind me asking whose book you're referring to?" W.H.B Smith's Small Arms of the World" "I am that Auther" Was the reply! Pricless.
Yes He did get his Guns back. But never fully recovered from the beating he got during his arrest!
I went in, "Whats that, a deposit?" There was only me and the young sales man
in the shop! He pulled me over, closer to the counter.
"It's on consighnment, the owner was an A-ole! He was a civian contractor, on a 2 year contract. To Malta. Bought it from a Browning and Sterling sub gun dealer in London. Just to export. You could not buy to keep in England.
His first day on the job, he put a shoulder holster on, complete with his new pistol. First MP that saw him, confiscated it for the two years he was there.
Arrived back in Manchester, the Police confiscated it. He tried to get it back, he stated he would be joining a gun club? They said it did not work that way.
Marched him off to the gun shop. Apprently he was just as popular with the Cops as he was with everyone else he dealt with. I was a Gun Club member since I was 18, and owned 2 pistols already, just needed to enter it into my local Police data, and write it on my Permit. "Is this a target pistol?" I was asked "I can shoot targets with, can I not?" I said. "Fair enough" the reply.
Not a bad price for a gleaming spotless new Civilian finish BHP. Walnut Grips, two 13 round magazines. And a shoulder holster. I had Harry Hickys Gun shop in Toronto, smooth the trigger down to 4lbs, and remove the magazine disconnect!
Prior to leaving England, I was shooting on a Military Range I had permission to shoot on? Dont ask! When a Secend Lt. With a squad of 4 Sqdys challenged me to a shooting match, at 20M, me with my BHP, him with his Sten Gun, a Sub Gun set on Semi. I beat him, the "Box" turned out to be a case of NATO Mil Spec 9mm. What a deal, I still paid for a round of pints of Guinness!
On closing, a story about (W.H.B Smith's Small Arms of the World) I was in the Ontario Supreme Court in Toronto. Waiting to give evidence in an expert witness Capacity. When I bumped into Johnny Sombrero, I biker who I knew.
As I had a lot of time before I was set to testify, I went to see his case (To do with the Police trying to confiscate his collection of converted from Full Auto FN 762 Rifles) Johnnys Expert in the witness stand. Big book open in font of the Crowns Expert. Bunch of little yellow stickly markers protruding.
"Do you mind me asking whose book you're referring to?" W.H.B Smith's Small Arms of the World" "I am that Auther" Was the reply! Pricless.
Yes He did get his Guns back. But never fully recovered from the beating he got during his arrest!
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Not sure how that's a mistake.
You can rebarrel them for 40S&W like Browning did.
You can rechamber them for 7.65 Parabellum, like some military and police in various parts of the world had FN do. But it's hard to adapt them for something bigger than what they were designed for. So how is that a mistake? So is the BAR a mistake becasue it wouldn't handle 50 BMG? No.
Biggest mistake Dieudonne Saive made was redesigning the internal extractor to be an external extractor. The Hi Power's Achilles heel!
I fully acknowledge the limitations to the High Power design- such as long trigger reset and overtravel issues. Today, a couple others are weight, 13 round capacity [MecGar makes a 15 round mag] and no rail on dust cover.
I live in CA, so 10 rounds are my max, and I live in CA, so carry is not a possibility for me. Thus, only the dust cover issue is any type of issue.
That said- I LIKE the GP35 that we know more commonly as the Browning High Power.
I shoot it well, it is reliable and capable of more accuracy than I.
I have sold 3 or 4 over the years but still have 3.
The only one that is 'bone stock' is sort of bone stock- and that is a 1958 GP35 made for the Austrian national land police, salzburg region. So, internal extractor.
However, I do have a modern top end for it, so that I don't have to worry about damage to barrel/chamber/slide.
The other two are .40cal versions that have had their guts dumped and replaced. the ejector is stock, and so are pins. But trigger, sear and hammer are all aftermarket.
I pieced together stuff to make either of them a multi-caliber handgun: .357sig barrel [and recoil spring], 9mm conversion barrel and .22lr top end.
I can shoot other handguns decently, but the BHP just feels RIGHT in my hand.
Even if there are more technologically advanced handguns, with better capabilities, I like it.
Oh- 1911 fans, don't get me wrong. I also like the 1911.
I would put those two at #s 2 and 3 on my 'favorite handgun' list.
#1?
Ruger MK II Government Target.
I live in CA, so 10 rounds are my max, and I live in CA, so carry is not a possibility for me. Thus, only the dust cover issue is any type of issue.
That said- I LIKE the GP35 that we know more commonly as the Browning High Power.
I shoot it well, it is reliable and capable of more accuracy than I.
I have sold 3 or 4 over the years but still have 3.
The only one that is 'bone stock' is sort of bone stock- and that is a 1958 GP35 made for the Austrian national land police, salzburg region. So, internal extractor.
However, I do have a modern top end for it, so that I don't have to worry about damage to barrel/chamber/slide.
The other two are .40cal versions that have had their guts dumped and replaced. the ejector is stock, and so are pins. But trigger, sear and hammer are all aftermarket.
I pieced together stuff to make either of them a multi-caliber handgun: .357sig barrel [and recoil spring], 9mm conversion barrel and .22lr top end.
I can shoot other handguns decently, but the BHP just feels RIGHT in my hand.
Even if there are more technologically advanced handguns, with better capabilities, I like it.
Oh- 1911 fans, don't get me wrong. I also like the 1911.
I would put those two at #s 2 and 3 on my 'favorite handgun' list.
#1?
Ruger MK II Government Target.
dogtown tom
New member
Well....the same could be said for Glock. It took a frame redesign for the .45acp and 10mm models.
As far as 9mm Largo? You have to be kidding.
Outside of Spain that round was dead before WWI.FN produced factory Hi Powers in 9mm, 7.65 Luger and .40s&w.
dogtown tom
New member
It's a disappointing answer coming from Gun Jesus. That's because the CZ75 design has nothing to do with the BHP.
dogtown tom
New member
Are you kidding? The external extractor is much better in every way..cheaper to make, better extraction and much, much more durable.
As the 9X19MM is the most used centerfire pistol cartridge on the planet, I and many millions of others don't think designing the Hi Power and so many other pistols around the 9MM cartridge was a mistake. I've owned I don't even know how many FN/Browning Hi Powers since about '66-'67, collected them, carried Hi Powers off-duty, etc. FWIW, the 1962 engineering change that led to the pivoting external extractor was not a mistake either. I admire the older Hi Powers with the internal extractor, that utilized the elegant sear lever pivot, but the external pivoting lever extractors perform at least as well. My internal extractor guns routinely left the last expended cartridge case laying atop the follower of the empty magazine. This did not affect function, but it was odd. My external extractor guns never did this.
I had both 7.65 and .40 Hi Powers. The 7.65 utilized a thinner, lighter slide and smaller diameter barrel. The .40, a heavier slide and larger diameter 3 locking lug barrel. Both utterly reliable, as might be expected of FN/Browning products.
I routinely see the CZ75 referred to as some sort of variant, modification of, or descendant of the Hi Power. I've had CZ75s. They are certainly good guns, similar in size, etc. to the Hi Power, but that's it. No part interchanges.
In my dotage, I'm down to only three Hi Powers now but I intend to hang on to these
I had both 7.65 and .40 Hi Powers. The 7.65 utilized a thinner, lighter slide and smaller diameter barrel. The .40, a heavier slide and larger diameter 3 locking lug barrel. Both utterly reliable, as might be expected of FN/Browning products.
I routinely see the CZ75 referred to as some sort of variant, modification of, or descendant of the Hi Power. I've had CZ75s. They are certainly good guns, similar in size, etc. to the Hi Power, but that's it. No part interchanges.
In my dotage, I'm down to only three Hi Powers now but I intend to hang on to these
Attachments
I’ve got one that will come in under 3lbs and is factory. The only down side to my pistol is it will not shoot cast of any kind. I have played with around 20 different molds, some 38/357s, alloys, powder— you name it. Won’t do squat put any FMJ in it and it will group. It loves Win White box FMJ.
Drm50, Your comments about cast bullets in the Hi Power is consistent with my experience. I tried all kinds of cast bullet variations, but never got really good accuracy from any of them. The NATO style rifling leade, and 1 in 10 twist, just didn't work well with any cast bullet recipe I tried. The Barsto barrels shot cast bullets very well, but not everybody wants to go to that expense.
I once bought a GP Comp Hi Power from someone who said it wouldn't shoot. I'd previously owned a GP Comp, so bought it anyway. Sure enough, I learned he'd only shot cast bullets in it, and didn't understand why it didn't group well like his cast bullet loads in .45 ACP. After laboriously cleaning copious quantities of lead fouling from the bore, the pistol was capable of fine accuracy with jacketed bullets. I no longer have that one, but still have the last of the three GP Comps I've owned. Still don't use cast bullets in any of my Hi Powers....
I once bought a GP Comp Hi Power from someone who said it wouldn't shoot. I'd previously owned a GP Comp, so bought it anyway. Sure enough, I learned he'd only shot cast bullets in it, and didn't understand why it didn't group well like his cast bullet loads in .45 ACP. After laboriously cleaning copious quantities of lead fouling from the bore, the pistol was capable of fine accuracy with jacketed bullets. I no longer have that one, but still have the last of the three GP Comps I've owned. Still don't use cast bullets in any of my Hi Powers....
Jim Watson
New member
As said, the customer asked for a 9mm P, Browning, Saive, and FN gave them a 9mm. The French reneged and went with the odd 7.65x20, commonly said to be based on the .30 Pedersen device round, which seems strange because the Pedersen device was never deployed to the trenches in Europe.
As to the design features D. Saive incorporated between 1927 and 1935, at least some of them came right out of the Colt/Browning patents that were expiring.
I have a picture of a FN prototype in 7.65x20, kind of a last gasp after the French had already sloughed them off twice. It looks nothing like a P35 or a Petter. Too bad there are no details as to its operation.
I have thought that the 9mm Browning Long, 9x20SR, had more potential but it was not adopted by anybody but the Swedes that I know of. FN and Husqvarna made the big 1903 Browning; Le Francais and Webley built a few to their own designs.
As to the design features D. Saive incorporated between 1927 and 1935, at least some of them came right out of the Colt/Browning patents that were expiring.
I have a picture of a FN prototype in 7.65x20, kind of a last gasp after the French had already sloughed them off twice. It looks nothing like a P35 or a Petter. Too bad there are no details as to its operation.
I have thought that the 9mm Browning Long, 9x20SR, had more potential but it was not adopted by anybody but the Swedes that I know of. FN and Husqvarna made the big 1903 Browning; Le Francais and Webley built a few to their own designs.
I had one of the French 1935 model pistols for the 32 French Long. I built about 2 dozen cartridges for it and used a 77gr cast bullet. The pistol put you in mind of a Sig 210 as far as style. Extremely comfortable in the hand. Cartridge and accuracy didn’t excite me. I’m not the type that gets off dressing up like a French troop to shoot my pistol.
I never had one of the French .32 long pistols, but admit I'm a bit of a fan of the 210s that came after. Thank goodness they are not chambered in .32 French long.
I know there is a matter of national pride involved, but IMHO the French made a mistake in turning down the Hi Power and going with their 1935A and S pistols IIRC, utilizing a proprietary cartridge...
I know there is a matter of national pride involved, but IMHO the French made a mistake in turning down the Hi Power and going with their 1935A and S pistols IIRC, utilizing a proprietary cartridge...
