I did not know that Colt made stainless steel. I though they just use a standard one out of the 30 plus types under the SAE five categories.
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The best production 1911s
- Thread starter Juancts
- Start date
Kreyzhorse
New member
I own Colts and Springfields. All fine guns. If I were to buy another, I'd be very tempted to buy a DW.
My buddy has a 10mm DW Bruin and it's just an amazingly made gun. Action like a sewing machine, very accurate and damn impressive for the money.
My buddy has a 10mm DW Bruin and it's just an amazingly made gun. Action like a sewing machine, very accurate and damn impressive for the money.
I'm in the Colt camp. Lots of good choices but Colt tends to retain a lot of their value. I have a basic 5" 9mm Colt with the cheap 3-dot sights that shoots like a laser, so, I can't imagine getting more gun for the $665 that I paid for it new four years ago. I might have a prettier gun for more money, but not a better shooter.
I have 1911’s made by Colt, Springfield Armory, Kimber, Remington, Ruger, Taurus and Magnum Research. I’ve had minor issues with one of the SA’s and the Taurus. If you ever think you might sell it, I’d follow the advice here and buy a Colt. However, you should look at the Remington and the Magnum Research 1911’s. Half your budget and they are shooters for sure.
In my case it was just that simple. I had my gun thoroughly evaluated by the best 1911 specialist gunsmith in the NorthWest to see if it was basically a good candidate worthy of spending the money to upgrade. He thoroughly inspected the quality of the steel in the slide and frame, slide-to-frame fit, quality of the barrel, lock-up, and everything he knew to check. All was great. Not just good, but great. Only then did I give him the green light to Make it all it could be.If only it were that simple.
Jim
If all of those things check out, it flat doesn't matter who made the gun ... Metroarms, Rock Island, Colt, Ed Brown, Ford or Edsel.
I am a semi-serious blues guitar player. I specialize in buying inexpensive electric guitars in the $400.00 price range and upgrading them with new pickups, electronics, tuners, bridge, etc., ending up with a guitar for under $1,000.00 that is every bit as good as a $3,000.00 Gibson. I am amazed at how many supposedly knowledgeable players will pay two grand just for the name on the headstock. They regard it as a badge of honor. I regard it as a badge that says "I am stupid enough to pay two grand for the name on my headstock".
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In my case it was just that simple. I had my gun thoroughly evaluated by the best 1911 specialist gunsmith in the NorthWest to see if it was basically a good candidate worthy of spending the money to upgrade. He thoroughly inspected the quality of the steel in the slide and frame, slide-to-frame fit, quality of the barrel, lock-up, and everything he knew to check. All was great. Not just good, but great. Only then did I give him the green light to Make it all it could be.
But how is investing $1500 in a MetroArms any better than paying say $1200 for a Dan Wesson Vigil?
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Because the resulting gun is better than a Dan Wesson vigil. My 1911-specialist gunsmith's personal gun is a high-end Dan Wesson ... don't know specifically which model, just that it started life as a high-end Dan Wesson, meaning it was higher on the ladder than the entry-level Vigil ... then he worked his magic on it ... and when he was done with mine he told me it was the equal of his in every way. And he let me try them both, back-to-back (his shop is out in the country and he has his own range). I could tell no difference. Same feel, same accuracy, nearly identical triggers. His has a 2lb trigger, and I told him to make mine 3lb. Also, the Dan Wesson Vigil has an aluminum alloy frame and my Metroarms is all steel.But how is investing $1500 in a MetroArms any better than paying say $1200 for a Dan Wesson Vigil?
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Because the resulting gun is better than a Dan Wesson vigil. My 1911-specialist gunsmith's personal gun is a high-end Dan Wesson ... don't know specifically which model, just that it started life as a high-end Dan Wesson, meaning it was higher on the ladder than the entry-level Vigil ... then he worked his magic on it ... and when he was done with mine he told me it was the equal of his in every way. And he let me try them both, back-to-back (his shop is out in the country and he has his own range). I could tell no difference. Same feel, same accuracy, nearly identical triggers. His has a 2lb trigger, and I told him to make mine 3lb. Also, the Dan Wesson Vigil has an aluminum alloy frame and my Metroarms is all steel.
You could buy a Heritage rather than a Vigil if you want the steel frame and still be less than $1500.
The fact that a person that you paid to perform a service said the results of his service were as good as another product isn’t exactly unbiased to me (though unless it’s a secret if you would share the name of the gunsmith it would be nice to know). You may be completely right. But to me if you’re going to replace most of the parts anyway then personally I think it makes sense to start out with something else anyway.
You can take a Honda Civic and have a master tuning shop work it over. In the end you’ll have a great car. Is it as nice or better as a production car costing the same amount or even less? It might be, though it seems to me personal preference comes into play. In terms of an investment finding a buyer that recognizes the value you’ve added to a lower end product can be harder than finding a buyer willing to pay more money for a higher end product, but that doesn’t mean it’s impossible and it doesn’t mean that even matters to you personally.
It just seems a bit odd to me to poo poo higher end products while at the same time investing a not insubstantial amount of money in lower end products. You’re not wrong that people are often willing to pay a premium for a name, but seeing as you sought out “the best 1911 specialist gunsmith in the northwest” it seems you’re not completely immune from that either. Seems more a matter of degrees and thriftiness.
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What about Remington 1911s? I’ve only had experience with one, didn’t shoot it had to put it together for old WW2 Vet that took it clear apart, totally. Interior machining on it was terrible. Burrs that would cut you fingers. I’ve had a lot of clones apart and never saw anything as rough as that Remington including 1960s LLamas which are terrible too.
stinkeypete
New member
I would suggest first finding the closest 'smith that has a solid reputation for 1911's and the result may depend on how far away that expert is.
I am thinking hard about a Rock River... close neighbors of Springfield and close enough for me to drive to on a nice afternoon. Although relatively unheard of in the pistol market, they make nice stuff.
I am thinking hard about a Rock River... close neighbors of Springfield and close enough for me to drive to on a nice afternoon. Although relatively unheard of in the pistol market, they make nice stuff.
I'm going to go out on a limb here. I've shot several Colt's (i will own a Delta Elite eventually), DW, Rugers, Springfield, RIA, etc. I own 2 Rugers, a commander and a full size 10mm. My personal opinion shoot several, buy what you like. But in my experience, my Rugers shoot every bit as good as the Colt's, Springfield, and RIA. The DW I'll not comment on as it had an issue that prevented a full mag from running without a hangup (used gun at the store could be anything) Not to mention the Ruger is half your budget, which leaves a lot of room for ammo and range time which can't be beaten. Oh my Commander has 20k rounds through it now, recoil spring was replaced once and trigger components have been polished, but otherwise the recoil spring has been the only thing changed.
Dan Wesson makes the best production pistols and most within your range, in my view.
Especially if you can find the old model Valor, why they changed it is beyond me.
But the Vigil, Valkyrie, Pointman, Guardian are all great. I'd like the ECP myself if I were to buy another production 1911, but that's unlikely at this point.
Especially if you can find the old model Valor, why they changed it is beyond me.
But the Vigil, Valkyrie, Pointman, Guardian are all great. I'd like the ECP myself if I were to buy another production 1911, but that's unlikely at this point.
I have worked with several gunsmiths over the years, and I have been talked out of doing work to my guns more times than I have had work done. Because what I wanted was either unnecessary or a waste of money. I know of at least 2 excellent pistolsmiths, one who is a guild member, who advised against using anything but a SA or Colt 1911 as a base gun for a custom build. The quality of the metallurgy in the slide & frame makes a difference in the quality of the end product. These guys are craftsmen and their reputation is at stake with the work done. It usually makes sense to take the advice of people who are more experienced and more knowledgeable than we are.
I know my Dan Wesson Valor is a good gun and I bought it used for a lot less than what these went for new. Is it as accurate as a custom built gun? no, but it’s close enough since I can’t shoot the custom guns I’ve tried off-hand to the level of accuracy that these are capable of. If you have a gun that is more accurate than you can shoot it, that gives you bragging rights that you have an inherently accurate gun. My DW is accurate and reliable enough for me and that’s all that matters.
I know my Dan Wesson Valor is a good gun and I bought it used for a lot less than what these went for new. Is it as accurate as a custom built gun? no, but it’s close enough since I can’t shoot the custom guns I’ve tried off-hand to the level of accuracy that these are capable of. If you have a gun that is more accurate than you can shoot it, that gives you bragging rights that you have an inherently accurate gun. My DW is accurate and reliable enough for me and that’s all that matters.
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All this talk of tuning your 1911 to ensure it runs reliably is bunk. As a US Army trained Armorer with 350 Colt 1911s to take care of as well as over 300 M14s and a raft of light and heavy MGs, I can tell you that reliability is Number 1, first and foremost.
I know how to tune 1911s so they run well and as I said above, the 2 'NM' s/n, Forged Frame and Slide, Springfields I've got are gems. And they were both gems new out of the box too. The only thing I've had to do to either of them was to replace the grip to remove Springfield's logo. All I do is lube them and shoot them and they never fail.
The Range Officer is as accurate as any non-race gun 1911 I've seen and most importantly, it always runs. It feeds anything I feed it, anything. And that includes light loads, full power loads, ball, lead, coated lead, HPs and even the dreaded Speer 200grn 'Flying Ashtray' bullets.
Speer developed a HP with a hole that is huge way back in the 60's and it soon was found to choke almost every 1911 that tried to feed it until they got worked to accept them. Both of my Springers, new out of the box with only an initial cleaning, ran 2 mags full of them without either one having any issue at all.
They are my test bullets for feeding a 45. If it will feed them, it will feed anything! In fact, it was a few years into shooting them before I had my first failure to feed in either pistol and it turned out that the round was at fault in that the case mouth was damaged and bent over prohibiting the rd from loading into anything.
You can spend a ton on a 1911 and be happy looking at it or spend less on a Springfield Range Officer, Loaded, etc., and spend the money you save on ammo so you learn how to shoot it well. In the end, the choice is yours, however, a gun isn't necessarily supposed to be pretty, it's supposed to work . . . every time.
I know how to tune 1911s so they run well and as I said above, the 2 'NM' s/n, Forged Frame and Slide, Springfields I've got are gems. And they were both gems new out of the box too. The only thing I've had to do to either of them was to replace the grip to remove Springfield's logo. All I do is lube them and shoot them and they never fail.
The Range Officer is as accurate as any non-race gun 1911 I've seen and most importantly, it always runs. It feeds anything I feed it, anything. And that includes light loads, full power loads, ball, lead, coated lead, HPs and even the dreaded Speer 200grn 'Flying Ashtray' bullets.
Speer developed a HP with a hole that is huge way back in the 60's and it soon was found to choke almost every 1911 that tried to feed it until they got worked to accept them. Both of my Springers, new out of the box with only an initial cleaning, ran 2 mags full of them without either one having any issue at all.
They are my test bullets for feeding a 45. If it will feed them, it will feed anything! In fact, it was a few years into shooting them before I had my first failure to feed in either pistol and it turned out that the round was at fault in that the case mouth was damaged and bent over prohibiting the rd from loading into anything.
You can spend a ton on a 1911 and be happy looking at it or spend less on a Springfield Range Officer, Loaded, etc., and spend the money you save on ammo so you learn how to shoot it well. In the end, the choice is yours, however, a gun isn't necessarily supposed to be pretty, it's supposed to work . . . every time.
That's true and then they have to spend money to get it to run right before they can shoot it reliably. You want a BBQ gun by all means get one. But if you want one that you expect to save your life, forget the pretty, get one designed to run . . . . and fire every time. Then spend your money on ammo, lots of ammo so you can practice, practice, practice and learn to shoot it well by wrote. Once you have a gun that runs and can use it effectively without thinking about it, then you have both the tools and the experience to get it done.Some people have the money to both buy a pretty 1912 and shoot it. It’s not always an either or proposition. The same is true of non-1911s.
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That's true and then they have to spend money to get it to run right before they can shoot it reliably. You want a BBQ gun by all means get one. But if you want one that you expect to save your life, forget the pretty, get one designed to run . . . . and fire every time. Then spend your money on ammo, lots of ammo so you can practice, practice, practice and learn to shoot it well by wrote. Once you have a gun that runs and can use it effectively without thinking about it, then you have both the tools and the experience to get it done.
No they really don’t have to spend money to get it to work right. There are plenty of semi custom 1911s that work just as well out of the box, just like the examples you yourself have owned. Dan Wesson, Wilson Combat, the list goes on. There are guns that are both expensive and reliable. It’s not mutually exclusive. I’ve owned 1911s and seen issues at varying price levels. None of that has to be mutually exclusive with training.
I’ve done dozens of training courses, most of them with a Glock 19. A guy I ran into frequently used to do them with a Wilson Combat 1911. I never saw him have a malfunction and he had tens of thousands of rounds through that pistol. Idk if some would consider it “pretty”, but compared to my Glock I guess it would be (it certainly was more expensive). He didn’t wear it at BBQs. He shot the snot out of it.
There’s this assumption that if a person spends a noticeable amount of money on a firearm that person won’t shoot it. That’s no more true than if someone buys a lower end pistol. Plenty of people go out, buy the cheapest gun they can afford, and they’re lucky if they ever shoot a box of ammo through it. I’ve talked with multiple gun store owners about this.
I think we have a tendency on this forum to ignore that many gun owners don’t shoot much because we’re “enthusiasts” that do shoot a lot (I put that in quotes because some people don’t like that word). But in terms of overall gun owners that’s not true. It might be true of us and our circles, but not training isn’t the sole domain of the wealthy or poor. It’s an equal opportunity phenomenon.
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"Pretty" to me is a gun that runs well, is extremely reliable, accurate and that doesn't require me to mortgage my house to buy it. I could give a rip about its pedigree or the name stamped on the slide.Some people have the money to both buy a pretty 1911 and shoot it. It’s not always an either or proposition. The same is true of non-1911s.
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HisSoldier
New member
I have SA, Colt and Dan Wesson. No question at all for me, DW is quality leader of the three by quite a long way.