The 9mm vs 45 ACP Debate: A Visual Aid...

J

Joshua 2415

New member
Hopefully this debate never ends. If it does, it means we have reached the end of the world as we know it.

I carry both 9mm and 45, and other calibers as well. So I have no ax to grind here. For those who revere the 45 ACP, the most common opinion that I see is that regular 230 grain 45 is the king of the hill. No need to juice it up, and don't bother with 9mm or other calibers.

But, take a look at the brief gel tests in the BrassFetcher video, below. Just takes a few minutes.

The 9mm 124+P and the 45 ACP 185+P both seem to perform considerably better than the regular 230 grain 45 ACP. This same outcome can be seen in the clear gel tests at the LuckyGunner website (if you can figure out how to find them, which I finally did.) Here's the BrassFetcher link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqziWTq7X1c

I realize that gel tests don't tell the whole story, but they are a primary medium for evaluating ammo performance on a level playing field.

Assuming I can shoot them well, why wouldn't I choose the 45 ACP 185+P and the 9mm 124+P? I'm not seeing any good reason to use the regular 230 grain.

Am I missing something here? Your thoughts?
 
I don't want the additional muzzle blast and recoil of +P.
I have come around to 185s for compact .45s, after carrying nothing but 230s for years, but not for ballistic reasons, so no +P there, either.
I chose 230s because the certainty of penetration was more attractive than the promise of expansion, but I think modern bullet design appears to have greatly reduced the difference in terminal ballistics of different calibers, so I also carry non-+P 9mm.
 
Any one of those rounds are well within the acceptable range. If +P makes you more confident go for it.
 
9mm and .45ACP. Here we go...

This is how I feel on it.

I love 9mm and .45ACP.

9mm +p or +p+ will NEVER be as harsh in the same platform (pistol) as .40S&W.

.40S&W will always have more aggressive recoil. I simply feel anyone who states that a 9mm in +p or +p+ is simply exaggerating or doesn't understand what "felt recoil" is. Sorry, you're not a "liar" but I just don't believe you. *flame suit on*

Now... 9mm is the softest shooting service caliber in auto-loading pistols.

The .45ACP has a "push" which is manageable for plenty of people.

My heart seriously prefers .45ACP.

My mind and logic prefers 9mm.


The .45ACP has about 10% - 12% more "umph" behind it. Less mag capacity when comparing to a 9mm handgun in the same class. Usually a little heavier and more bulky in the same handgun in its class.

The 9mm is just as good in many applications of the same "umph" but you need to really choose a good load to make sure you have that. A lot more and sometimes double the magazine capacity in pistols of the same class. Lighter and somewhat smaller / slimmer as well.

The 9mm overall for concealed carry / defense makes the most sense to me.

Multiple threats with only a negative 10% - 12%, double the mag capacity, much more concealable, smaller, lighter, and easier to shoot.


The .45ACP for offensive situations makes the most sense to me. Where conceal-ability doesn't matter. So a full sized HK USP 45, Glock 21 / 41, or FNX 45 wouldn't be shy of the capacity concern and often times it'll be paired up with an AR15 / SBR or a rifle of some type.




So. Overall. I carry 9mm.
 
The 9mm vs 45 ACP Debate exists only in the feeble minds of gun rag editors.
"...choose the 45 ACP 185+P..." Mostly because you have to fiddle with the pistol to get 'em to feed right.
 
Terminal ballistics--the performance of a single projectile--is only part of the equation, and if the difference is insignificant and other differences are greater, it is a very small part indeed.
 
For me, a .45 in a full size 1911 is one of my more enjoyable range toys. With that said, if it weren't for the 1911 I wouldn't have a .45acp.
 
Yes. This!

Terminal ballistics--the performance of a single projectile--is only part of the equation, and if the difference is insignificant and other differences are greater, it is a very small part indeed.
Click to expand...

Caliber is only part of what matters. Modern service loads are very similar.
 
I have no use for ballistic gelatin testing. As long as you stay somewhere between 380 and 44 special it’s the gun that matters and how well you can control it. These tests are fun to watch and that’s about all.
For 9mm and 45 acp I use Winchester silvertips. I know that there are better bullets but I have a lot of them and I can shoot them well. For me that’s good enough.
 
Good video, thanks. Just shows the 9mm loadings have really come a long way. Shows that a REAL man(such as myself) has and shoots both!:D
 
There have been people shot in the leg with a .22 that die and people who have been shot multiple times in the chest with .45 hollow points that continue to fight and survive.

There is no magic bullet.
 
Here's what I got from watching the video. The 9mm rounds are quite powerful and more than adequate. One of the +p 45 rounds tested outperformed the 9mm.

So, some people will conclude that it's better to go with 9mm because capacity can be around 70% more than .45. Others will conclude that it's better to go with 45 (from a full-sized 45 capable of handling +P), because the impact per round is more destructive.

In other words, same old, same old 9mm vs. 45 debate.
 
Another 9mm / 45 visual aid, from handgunsmag.com:
federal_hst_ammo_11.jpg


Yea, I've read that they all "perform about the same", right.....
A hole approximately the size of a dime versus one the size of a quarter in the same spot, couldn't possibly make any difference .... :rolleyes:
 
Another 9mm / 45 visual aid, from handgunsmag.com:
federal_hst_ammo_11.jpg


Yea, I've read that they all "perform about the same", right.....
A hole approximately the size of a dime versus one the size of a quarter in the same spot, couldn't possibly make any difference ....
Click to expand...
Judging from the picture, the comparison is more like a nickel for the 9mm, so the hole is a lot more similar.

Objectively, I can't see how anyone could say the 9mm looks THAT much more survivable. Putting a hole like that into any organ (or slamming it against a bone) will still wreak a lot of damage.
 
Objectively, I can't see how anyone could say the 9mm looks THAT much more survivable. Putting a hole like that into any organ (or slamming it against a bone) will still wreak a lot of damage.
Click to expand...

Objectively the numbers support this conclusion. For CDW4ME and many others, size is all that matters. The OP's question was about +P verses standard pressure loads. We never waste a chance to argue about 9 mm verses .45 though.:rolleyes:
 
Judging from the picture, the comparison is more like a nickel for the 9mm, so the hole is a lot more similar.
Click to expand...

Federal ammunition tests results with heavy clothed gel....
http://www.le.vistaoutdoor.com/wound_ballistics/load_comparison/load_comparison.aspx

HST
124 gr. +P 9mm: 13'' / .61
147 gr. 9mm: 12.5'' / .69
180 gr. 40: 12.5'' / .80
230 gr. 45 acp: 13.5'' / .87

Rounded to the nearest hundredth:
A dime is .71''
A nickel is .84''
A quarter is .95''

Both 9mm smaller than dime, 45 is bigger than nickel.
 
the most common opinion that I see is that regular 230 grain 45 is the king of the hill.
Click to expand...

I think the entire premise of this thread is flawed. I typically don't see this "theory" about the 45 anywhere anymore. As a matter of fact "regular" (FMJ?, Ball?,??) is about as far from "currently popular" for any self defense ammunition of any caliber.

Just another caliber war thread.

Must be too hot to shoot this summer...
 
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