The "90% myth" comes from Obama, now

And you are surpised at this?

Willing to lie blatantly if he thinks he will advance his agenda? Thinks no one notices when he lies through his teeth or is blatantly and clearly doesn't know the facts of an issue?
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POLITICIAN...Hello!!!:rolleyes:

On the bright side, you would have full-auto military style weaponry and ammunition as cheap and as available as drugs are now. That would actually be an improvement over the current market in pretty much every respect.
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except for the whole going to jail thing when you get found with them.

You know, they could be (technically) correct, at least for part of what they are saying. If you recover 100 guns, and 90 of them are US made M16s, supplied by US aid to Mexico, and stolen from the Mexican govt, then the 90% made in the USA is technically correct. Misleading and deceitful, certainly. Out of context, certainly. But technically correct, in the same way one former president was technically correct claiming "he did not have sex with that woman".

Tinfoil hat time: Consider that it may just be that some people really want the drug war violence to spill over the border. It would be a fine excuse for taking away what few remaining rights we have. If they can get that result by appearing inept, they still get that result!
 
Tinfoil hat time: Consider that it may just be that some people really want the drug war violence to spill over the border. It would be a fine excuse for taking away what few remaining rights we have. If they can get that result by appearing inept, they still get that result!
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No foil required. The Bush administration let the low-intensity conflict on the border slide for nearly a decade, probably out of ineptitude, but whatever the reason he left a situation ripe for exploitation and gave the current administration a blueprint for the destruction of rights at the same time.

What was that quote about reaping and sowing....
 
I actually found myself calling him a liar out loud in an empty room. I watch a lot of news, hours a day, and have been watching his overseas work, mostly pleased. When he spouted that blatantly false "factoid" I just became very disappointed with him, mostly because he's obviously keeping the AWB beyond arms reach right now. So why lie? It makes no sense. I wish a reporter called him on it.

Facts aside, it's even beyond logic. It's too expensive and logistically difficult to legally purchase large amounts of semi-auto "assault weapons" here, where they're insanely priced at top market retail, pay off who they need to in order to get them into mexico, then convert them, all the while being smart enough to do all this but too dumb to file off the serial numbers and thus putting their apparently "cheap and easy" source (the USA) in jeopardy.
Today 11:37 AM
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Yup. That is what is bothering me, the lack of logic or even slight covering fire. His own AG has been routed publicly on the same issue. ATF numbers don't support it, nor even Mexican numbers. It is I guess a matter of faith, in Marx. Can't control the sheep if they can hit back, and if criminals are pounding them day in and day out, they will be even more cooperative.

I guess the treaty will provide cover for executive actions along the lines of a AWB...anything semiauto.

When the facts don't matter...public policy tends to suck, at least from the viewpoint of those not connected and protected by the political class.
 
Speaking of lies... Why doesn`t the Mexican gov`n. take lesson`s off the U.S. gov`t and declare a so called 'war on assault weapons' and they(Mexican gov`n) can make billions. Same as the U.S. gov`t. does on the so called 'war on drugs'. For years(and many administrations) the U.S. supplied arms to a corrupt Mexican gov`n. which has turned its head to the billions of dollars the drug cartels have been making off the US smuggling their drugs here . In the speech the Mexican pres. made, he remarked about the appetite for illegal drugs in the US. Wonder why the Mexican gov`n has never stepped up to the plate when it comes to border patrol. To much money to be made by corrupt Mexican officials in the drug business thats why. Their drugs have been killing people here for years , now arms we gave them are ending up in the drug cartels hands through passed/present corrupt Mexican gov`t.:barf:. I just hope Obama knows what he`s doing going to these different countries, thinking he can just waltz in, talk to the heads of these countries and things will be ok. Hope he`s all that.
 
Bush made the same claims in January 2009

"President Bush said yesterday that the United States should work to stop the movement of guns across our southern border into Mexico." http://www.infowars.com/bush-says-america-should-work-to-stop-guns-from-entering-mexico-from-us/ So it would appear the American gun connection statements did not start with Obama. Back in April 2008 "U.S. gun stores and gun shows are the source of more than 90 percent of the weapons being used by Mexico's ruthless drug cartels, according to U.S. and Mexican law enforcement officials." http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=4695848&page=1

In 2007 this statement appeared at http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=ae0f349b5a2797fa94e4da7f5022104f “We are concerned about the number of weapons coming into Mexico and Central America illegally from the United States,” Attorney General Alberto Gonzales said last month when he was attending a conference in Cuernavaca, south of Mexico City. “There is more that we can do, and we are looking to do, to try and stem the flow of illegal weapons into Mexico.”

Hey I don't like the probable issues with gun control that could affect gun ownership. But I also will not pretend the issue of America and guns getting into Mexico are a pretence that begin with Obama when I can easily find reference going back through the eight years of the last administration.
 
"President Bush said yesterday that the United States should work to stop the movement of guns across our southern border into Mexico." http://www.infowars.com/bush-says-am...exico-from-us/ So it would appear the American gun connection statements did not start with Obama. Back in April 2008 "U.S. gun stores and gun shows are the source of more than 90 percent of the weapons being used by Mexico's ruthless drug cartels, according to U.S. and Mexican law enforcement officials." http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=4695848&page=1

In 2007 this statement appeared at http://news.newamericamedia.org/news...e4da7f5022104f “We are concerned about the number of weapons coming into Mexico and Central America illegally from the United States,” Attorney General Alberto Gonzales said last month when he was attending a conference in Cuernavaca, south of Mexico City. “There is more that we can do, and we are looking to do, to try and stem the flow of illegal weapons into Mexico.”

Hey I don't like the probable issues with gun control that could affect gun ownership. But I also will not pretend the issue of America and guns getting into Mexico are a pretence that begin with Obama when I can easily find reference going back through the eight years of the last administration.
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Bad data is BAD DATA. Decisions made on bad data are usually BAD DECSIONS. That Bush was wrong so Bama can be wrong is idiotic. IMO.

Do you care if good decisions are made or Bama is no less uninformed that Bush?

I thought Bama was about hope, change, transparency, reversing the errors of the past....
 
NO I just care that we are aware that

the 90% nonsense has been around for more than a couple of days and the fact it was around long before Obama was even a presidential candidate. Do you believe Obama sought new data from the ATF for the 90% number or would you expect him to rely on the ATF data being tosses about by former AG Gonzales? Why was there no uprising when Gonzalez made the 90% reference? Or when George made the same references?


I despise the notion that the US is the source of these weapons being used in Mexico. I realy think only a fool believes the cartels can bring pounds of drugs into Mexico but they have to rely on some gun shop in the US for the supply of AK-47s.

Has anyone been in one of these magical gun shops where you can just walk in and buy an unlimited number of fully automatic AK-47s or MAC 10s? Then without any paperwork or required tax stamp (1934 NFA requirement) walk out with the same arms. And all the while no Fed is going to be watching the sale of multiple weapons to a single purchaser.
 
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Just a bunch of public mind softening gov`t/media anti-weapon tactics being used to gain political support so this administration can make our gun laws more strict with the blessing of the general public. Nothing more, nothing less. As Obama stated himself(I hope people remember this) "we have current gun laws to stop these so called illegal weapons transactions. Just need to inforce them". We also have drug laws in this country and I hope the Mexican gov`t will help enforce them and keep the flow of drugs from coming across the border. Has to be a two way street. To date, Mexico`s assistance at the border is all but non-existant and IMO will probably stay that way due to the fact that to many Mexican officials and policia are on the take and making more money in one year with the payoffs from the drug cartels than it will take them 4-5 yrs. to make doing their jobs without the payoffs. Also, stands to reason the bloodshed will increase if the legit Mexican authorities start putting pressure to oust the dirty officials. Thats a burden Mexico will have to bare and other than making sure no illegal arms transactions come from the US, no other laws should be put into place affecting US citizens. Just enforce existing laws.
 
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It's not Obammy's fault. He just says what the teleprompter tells him to, and right now the teleprompter want's gun control.
 
More information, from David Hardy

This is a drive -by, just adding an article which sheds more information on the issue, I believe.

See:http://armsandthelaw.com for the original:

More thoughts on guns and Mexico and cartels
Posted by David Hardy · 18 April 2009 06:17 PM
As noted earlier, everyone from President Obama to the Mexican ambassador is claiming that 90%, or even 95% of criminal guns recovered in Mexico come from the US. The fact that 90% of guns submitted to ATF for tracing trace to the US, but the Mexican government only submits guns that it thinks came from the US; a while back FoxNews ran the numbers and concluded that only 17% of guns recovered in Mexico came from the US. Now Factcheck.org reruns the numbers and concludes it's more like 34%, still a minority.

One mystery remains: the difference between the two sets of numbers is explained as the smaller one reflect guns that could be traced to a particular State, the larger one includes those that couldn't be. A successful ATF trace at the very minimum tracks it to retail dealer, thus you know the State. If they couldn't report the State, it probably means an unsuccessful trace -- we know that Colt made it in the US, but can't trace it to the dealer. Unsuccessful traces are disproportionately traces of sales long ago -- those made before the 1968 GCA are about hopeless, and even subsequent to that, the farther back in time, the more likely records have been misplaced.

Which would suggest, at least, that about half of the traces relate to very old gun transfers. Say a gun was sold at retail in 1960, has gone thru 2-3 legit owners since then, a burglar steals it and fences it across the border -- that'd go down as a gun "traced to an American source," and be portrayed as if it was a straw man sale or crooked dealer.

The other possibility is that guns not traced to sale in a particular State include guns not sold in the US at all, but exported. In 2007, American manufacturers exported 10,530 handguns and rifles to the Mexican Ministry of Defense. Think the cartels have enough money to get their hands on as many as they want?
 
Is he out of touch? Is he unable to learn any fact that doesn't support what he wants to do? Stupid? Unbalanced? Willing to lie blatantly if he thinks he will advance his agenda? Thinks no one notices when he lies through his teeth or is blatantly and clearly doesn't know the facts of an issue?
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1. Yes!
2. Facts should never affect your agenda.
3. Stupid? In my view...yes.
4. He is "balanced" in a way that scares me me. He is his own fulcrum point. This not good.
5. You didn't read the article about his pathological narcissism did you?
6. Doesn't care about (and hates) those who know the truth and had 55% of the voters convinced he was the answer to their prayers. Sadness all around. Most who voted for him had no concept of logic or a willingness to deal with the facts.
 
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6. Doesn't care about (and hates) those who know the truth and had 55% of the voters convinced he was the answer to their prayers. Sadness all around. Most who voted for him had no concept of logic or a willingness to deal with the facts.
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[citation needed]
 
i know this is a firearms forum, but we sometimes have to stop, sit back, and think of a larger picture...all of these problems have very little to do with the firearms, they are nothing more than one tool in a very large toolbox...

drugs and illegal aliens... stop the drug use and illegal immigration, 95% of US issues just simply go away, yet the gov (and us) just will not do any thing about it...we can empower an entire continent to over throw a bunch of idiots over seas costing thousands of lives, but we cant tackle this?

but than again i dont expect it from our "leader" who has vested part of his past in the very things we should be fighting against, duh?....................

"Albert Einstein:

Any power must be an enemy of mankind which enslaves the individual by terror and force, whether it arises under the Fascist or the Communist flag. All that is valuable in human society depends upon the opportunity for development accorded to the individual.

statement, England, September 15, 1933"

"All that is valuable in human society depends upon the opportunity for development accorded to the individual."- now that is what i am talking about, we dont get there by sucking the life blood out of good hard working people and then apologizing to the world "that we americans suck"....

which is what has been happening:mad:
 
The other possibility is that guns not traced to sale in a particular State include guns not sold in the US at all, but exported. In 2007, American manufacturers exported 10,530 handguns and rifles to the Mexican Ministry of Defense.
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In a country known the world over for having problems with corruption, and a country that has had thousands of deserters from their armed forces in recent years, might not individuals in the Mexican govt itself be the major supplier (although illegally) of US made guns to the cartels?

Also consider the number of guns stolen in the US that are "exported" to Mexico. Sure, they are bought from US gunshops and at gunshows. Bought by us, legally, but then stolen and sent south. Somehow, it just doesn't seem possible that nearly all the guns (90%) in the hands of the cartels were bought by strawmen from US gunshops. A few, sure. Its a crime, and it happens. But so many? I doubt it, strongly.

I'm used to being lied to, I just like it less when the lies are so blatantly obvious.

And it doesn't matter if this was started under Bush, or Eisenhower. Obama's people are the ones pushing it today!
 
"Intellectual activity is a danger to the building of character”
“Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it”
“Think of the press as a great keyboard on which the government can play.”
“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over”
Joseph Goebbels quotes

44 AMP says:
I'm used to being lied to, I just like it less when the lies are so blatantly obvious.
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Maybe you just recognize THIS type of lie(the 90% number), and see it as mantra. Somebody doesn't think you are capable of critical thinking.
It's a new day comrade, but i don't think elections will do them any favors, and hopefully we can go back to the old lies of the right...far less insiduous toward the individual.
Maybe the stat has been around a while, but i don't remember it being used daily, and not for the current reasons. I guess a fence would be too much to ask.
*stupid me.:)
 
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Isn't the United States the #1 manufacturer of firearms in the world? Don't we sell tons of firearms to Mexico, its Government, Military, and citizens legally every year??? Why are we supposed to buy the assumption that all these guns are illegally smuggled assault weapons? As usual, Obama is lying to push his agenda to disarm us filthy peasants.
 
I try and keep my views open and not one sided....

To me , ( and no I did not vote Obahma , nor am I at all for any kind of gun control..... )

He is trying to politically say " We want Mexican drugs out of our country , Mexico want's american guns out of theirs " So he's policitally accepting some responsibility for Mexico's concerns while trying to accomplish our own goals against drugs....


Atleast that is how I read that quote.... As to legitimacy of the claim ? I can't say ...
 
Somehow, it just doesn't seem possible that nearly all the guns (90%) in the hands of the cartels were bought by strawmen from US gunshops.
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When I read the I can't help but visualize a scene from Blazing Saddles. The one where all the "bad guys" are standing in line signing up. I can see that little desk sitting on the US/Mexico border, with Slim Pickens selling AWs to Mexican cartel members dressed as Nazi's, KKKs, etc.
 
HA HA HA. I like that. Very fitting.

We should fire back that all the crime in the US perpetrated by Mexicans can surely be traced back to Mexico and when they do something about that we will do something about their problems. BUT we all know the only reason this is even coming up is to drum up political support for a new "assault weapons" ban in the US.
 
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