The 6.8 mm Remington SPC
- Thread starter AlBundy
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LAWL, alright Dr. Russel ... Mine is better, it made the deer explode. Both animals died and the deer for 1/4 the cost. HAHA(Nelson laugh)!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX7wtNOkuHo
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New to the discussion, but, the short of it is that, based strictly on the merit of the cartridge/ballistics, ie independent of the logistics/cost of re-"caliber-ating," and perhaps even independent of the fact the same # rounds weigh more to tote in the packs (and transport vehicles), the US military would make the switch to 6.8 in a heartbeat IMO. Other comers including the .300 bo are, for all practical reasons by this point. distant thirds and fourths. For commercial use, compared to the x39, in all important/meaningful respects the 6.8 is a superior cartridge--as you'd expect it to be with its much newer, more "sophisticated" develpment.
Cost/logistics (including "political (NATO etc) logistics") may well preclude its adoption by the US military, but that's the only real obstacle--however daunting that alone is admittedly--to it happening. AND the fact the military may/will either be slow or averse to adopt en masse--for the above non cartridge-specific reasons--will likewise be the only "legitimate" reason for the 6.8 not taking off like gangbusters commercially--as an early poster suggested.
Cost/logistics (including "political (NATO etc) logistics") may well preclude its adoption by the US military, but that's the only real obstacle--however daunting that alone is admittedly--to it happening. AND the fact the military may/will either be slow or averse to adopt en masse--for the above non cartridge-specific reasons--will likewise be the only "legitimate" reason for the 6.8 not taking off like gangbusters commercially--as an early poster suggested.
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Yeah I know that it's superior to the 7.62x39, I'm not arguing that. It should be considering it was developed 60 years later. I'm just saying that it's so similar that it looks like they just took the 7.62x39 and tweaked it just enough for it to fit in the AR platform(which is a good idea, they should have done it in the first place!)
I think it's cool but in my opinion, especially considering that I don't have an AR, I don't think it's very practical. It outperforms the AK-47 past 100 yards but like I said, I would use a bolt action then anyways. If I did have an AR I would think about getting an upper and some ammo just to hold onto for safe keeping, but I wouldn't practice with it at 4x the cost of 5.45/5.56/7.62. I would feel a lot better about with the AR if it was the 6.8 to begin with. I just don't trust a 55 grain bullet to get the job done, close range or long range.
In conclusion, you can probably tell that I'm an AK fan. I don't mean to offend anyone that loves ARs and loves the 6.8. I was just trying to have a civilized discussion about the comparison of the 7.62x39 and the 6.8. If anyone else wants to chime in, feel free, but lets not start any crap.
-Bundy(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcdmbBjL1n0)
I think it's cool but in my opinion, especially considering that I don't have an AR, I don't think it's very practical. It outperforms the AK-47 past 100 yards but like I said, I would use a bolt action then anyways. If I did have an AR I would think about getting an upper and some ammo just to hold onto for safe keeping, but I wouldn't practice with it at 4x the cost of 5.45/5.56/7.62. I would feel a lot better about with the AR if it was the 6.8 to begin with. I just don't trust a 55 grain bullet to get the job done, close range or long range.
In conclusion, you can probably tell that I'm an AK fan. I don't mean to offend anyone that loves ARs and loves the 6.8. I was just trying to have a civilized discussion about the comparison of the 7.62x39 and the 6.8. If anyone else wants to chime in, feel free, but lets not start any crap.
-Bundy(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcdmbBjL1n0)
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Most steel cased 7.62x39 ammo is ~$4 per box if you buy in bulk.
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/2GT762FMJBX-1.html
Maybe not exactly 4 times but you see what I'm saying.
You keep talking about 100 yards like it's the be-all and end-all of riflery.
100 yards is more or less point blank.
Last qual course I did had pop-up targets out to 300m, starting at 50 and going up in intervals of 50. The US military is not interested in "good enough for 100 yards."
Note: That's pop-up, timed targets at 300m with iron sights, not optics.
You then said HKFan9 claimed he could hit moving targets, rapidly, at 500 yards. I didn't see him make that claim anywhere. He did say he could score hits from 500-1000 yards. Given that a lot of rifle competitions are at those ranges, his claim isn't far-fetched.
A bunch of LOL's don't magically undo unwarranted sarcasm. Please bear in mind that how you speak has a major impact on how your message is received.
100 yards is more or less point blank.
Last qual course I did had pop-up targets out to 300m, starting at 50 and going up in intervals of 50. The US military is not interested in "good enough for 100 yards."
Note: That's pop-up, timed targets at 300m with iron sights, not optics.
You then said HKFan9 claimed he could hit moving targets, rapidly, at 500 yards. I didn't see him make that claim anywhere. He did say he could score hits from 500-1000 yards. Given that a lot of rifle competitions are at those ranges, his claim isn't far-fetched.
A bunch of LOL's don't magically undo unwarranted sarcasm. Please bear in mind that how you speak has a major impact on how your message is received.
Well like I said, everyone has their own opinion. My opinion is that past 100-200 yards I would use a bolt action. My logic is why possibly hit it with a 55 grain bullet when I can for sure hit it with a 180 grain bullet. I don't have an ego when it comes to combat and I wont rely on a 55 grain bullet at 300+ yards to get the job done, nor a 123 grain 7.62x39 bullet. As far as his long range shooting, I'm not talking about the mob of stationary paper targets, I'm talking about actual combat(Iraq) where people don't stand still. Again, why use a .308 and maybe hit the target(more likely give your position away) when you can use a .50 BMG/338 and for sure hit the target. As I said before, I'm not trying to start crap, that's just my logic and I'll stand by it no matter what anyone says. LOL LAWL ROFL HAHA AHAHA HEHE HA 
XD 8) 8>)
#Overkill is Underrated
XD 8) 8>)#Overkill is Underrated
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Your logic has a major flaw: You think solely in terms of shooting, and not in terms of carrying the weapon, maintaining and feeding the weapon, or having to use the weapon in both long-range and close-quarters engagement.
You would not want a bolt-action anything at close quarters.
You would not want a short-ranged weapon at 300-500m.
You would not want to carry a .338 or .50 weapon around all day.
You would not want a bolt-action anything at close quarters.
You would not want a short-ranged weapon at 300-500m.
You would not want to carry a .338 or .50 weapon around all day.
Very true but I would know what I'm walking into so I would pick one or the other. When in doubt I would go with a bolt action because you can stay farther back. I would also have a pistol and or a SMG of some sort. Hopefully we'll never have to use it and have specific details, but generally when in doubt go bigger and farther IMHO.
There's another major flaw.... especially so in combat conditions... especially since we are currently engaged in fighting with a guerrilla force.... you have no idea what your walking into.. and you wont be making the choice either.
Real life isn't call of duty, you don't just see which map your on and choose your weapon.
Secondly.... they aren't just issuing 55grain ammo.... They do issue a few others... including the 62grain steel penetration round.... which has reports of penetrating better than a 7.62x51 on reinforced concrete.
You seem to have a lack of experience with rifles... not trying to poke fun... but others have stated it also.... 200-300 yards is well with in the scope of a carbine. You you attest you'd use a bolt action in a larger caliber so you "know" you can hit them. First off.... go to any 3 gun competition.. or carbine course... we... me and other fellow competitors.. are generally running an 18'' carbine with at the most a 4x scope... and make hits from 5m to 300mm fast paced.
Secondly just because something is a bigger caliber doesn't guarantee you hits. Either you know how to shoot at distance or you don't, and most people don't consider 200-300 yards long distance. As you said yourself... targets in combat don't sit still.... you'd be amazed how fast they can cover that 200 yards... and than you'd be stuck in a CQB situation with a bolt action.... why most spotters carry a carbine in the first place.
Thirdy... I never made outlandish claims of hitting running targets at 1000 meters.... but I can and have and do make hits at that distance fairly easily with a .308.... as well as many others.
An M24 SWS with a 12x scope can very easily make lethal hits at 1000yards. As can a Knights Armament SR-25, as can many other rifles.
People who shoot service rifle competitions shoot iron sights at 600yards with good hits.
Since I got my 6.8 in 2008, I have been waiting for a major ammo maker to produce an inexpensive plinking FMJ round. Because none exists, I learned to reload and found another hobby to fill my time. I'm still hoping a major military branch or law enforcement will place a large order for FMJ training ammo which may lead to the development of one.
The 300 Blackout may surpass the 6.8 if an inexpensive plinking round is available on the commercial market. At short and medium range (under 300 yards), the 6.8 and the 300 Blackout are close enough in lethality and ballistics to compete with each other for market share. It remains to be seen whether bullet makers will develop appropriate 110-125 grain .308 bullets suitable for deer and hogs. I think most of the ones currently available are more suited to varmints like coyotes.
The 300 Blackout may surpass the 6.8 if an inexpensive plinking round is available on the commercial market. At short and medium range (under 300 yards), the 6.8 and the 300 Blackout are close enough in lethality and ballistics to compete with each other for market share. It remains to be seen whether bullet makers will develop appropriate 110-125 grain .308 bullets suitable for deer and hogs. I think most of the ones currently available are more suited to varmints like coyotes.
Well, you kind of can and do. I don't see how you could get ambushed in a desert ...
7 grains will definitely make a difference
. When you say hits, again your talking about a non moving, paper target/gong correct?Very easily make lethal hits at 1000 yards as in bipod only? If your using a lead sled and take 10 minutes to figure out the adjustments, unless their taking a nap I don't see how you could "very easily" do that. Very true that you know how to or you don't but a 168 grain .308 to the leg and a 55 grain 5.56 to the leg would be a pretty big difference. It would definitely decrease the margin of error and I want as little a margin as possible no matter how good I am(ego in combat=death). If you disagree then a .50 BMG wouldn't be any better then a 5.56 because your either good or your not right?
You can get as detailed and technical as you want but you know what I'm saying. If you want to initiate targets at 600m with an AR be my guest but I would choose sub machine gun and sniper any day over just AR and pistol. Like I said, that's my opinion and there's nothing you can say that will change it.
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Both our cats are bigger than that pig...
OP,
Maybe you should try your argument that the .308 can't hit reliably at 600-1000 on a precision shooting forum...like SH...
Post a link to it here so I can watch.
My 14 year old son consistently bangs an 8" gong at 600 with an otherwise stock Savage in a Choate stock...
okiewita40
New member
OK i need to chime in now. When I was in the military I qualified with the M16A2 too 500 meters. I also got to shoot the AK-47. A lot tougher to score with after 200 meters. Now for something more akin to hunting.
I currently use an SKS to hunt deer with. For the terrain i hunt it is a nice carbine to use. After a lot of research on my part. I can see the benefits of the 6.8SPC. Better range and trajectory. Also it is normally shot out of the AR15 platform. Though there are bolt actions in this caliber.
As far as ammo costs go lets compare apples to apples. Quality brass cased hunting rounds for each caliber tend to start at around about the $20 mark and go up from there. I know one can get cheaper steel cased ammo for the 7.62x39 for a lot less. But if you compare both in brass there isn't any really savings to be had.
So from the perspective of a hunter vs. military needs the 6.8 is better than the 7.62x39. Not saying that i am going to give up my SKS anytime soon. But you can bet that my next rifle is going to be a AR in 6.8.
I currently use an SKS to hunt deer with. For the terrain i hunt it is a nice carbine to use. After a lot of research on my part. I can see the benefits of the 6.8SPC. Better range and trajectory. Also it is normally shot out of the AR15 platform. Though there are bolt actions in this caliber.
As far as ammo costs go lets compare apples to apples. Quality brass cased hunting rounds for each caliber tend to start at around about the $20 mark and go up from there. I know one can get cheaper steel cased ammo for the 7.62x39 for a lot less. But if you compare both in brass there isn't any really savings to be had.
So from the perspective of a hunter vs. military needs the 6.8 is better than the 7.62x39. Not saying that i am going to give up my SKS anytime soon. But you can bet that my next rifle is going to be a AR in 6.8.
Huh? Would love to know which branch of service you were in that gave you your choice of weapons. BTW, Afghanistan is not all desert.
Sub machine gun? Really? Sub machine guns are in pistol calibers like .45 and 9mm (that's why the call them "sub" machine guns and not "machine guns"). What you gonna do with that at any range other than up close?
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LockedBreech
New member
Dude...bull. Your posts have called people liars about their shooting skills, denigrated AR owners, and had silly all-caps half-insults with no response to legitimate arguments.
I think they've shown why the 6.8 is a legitimate, useful caliber.
I myself love my 6.8. I can reload it for around $12 for 100. I can shot really good groups with just a bipod at 100 yards.
I pulled one really bad, but still would be a hit on a deer at 200. I shot this target with 5 shots in about 15 seconds. not to bad i think with a 4x scope and this being my load devolopment.
The 6.8 spc can be a real usefull cartridge and with the right bullet, like the barnes ttx, can be very devistating at long range.
It would be nice if more companies would come out with quality .311 caliber bullets for reloading the x39. But i dont see that happening. The x39 case is used for the 6.5 grendal and the 6mm ppc, so im sure the 7.62x39 can be made very accuratly. In an AK plateform, accuracy is not the primary goal. But they are fun to shoot!
I pulled one really bad, but still would be a hit on a deer at 200. I shot this target with 5 shots in about 15 seconds. not to bad i think with a 4x scope and this being my load devolopment.
The 6.8 spc can be a real usefull cartridge and with the right bullet, like the barnes ttx, can be very devistating at long range.
It would be nice if more companies would come out with quality .311 caliber bullets for reloading the x39. But i dont see that happening. The x39 case is used for the 6.5 grendal and the 6mm ppc, so im sure the 7.62x39 can be made very accuratly. In an AK plateform, accuracy is not the primary goal. But they are fun to shoot!
You have not made a single logical argument for the cartridges being a copy or even closely similar.
You are not one of those people who decide on something and then ignore all evidence in favor of a particular view point are you? It sure seems that way.
Oh wait, yes you are. So this whole thread is a pointless stroke contest? Oh well.
With statements like these it is pretty clear.
DubC-Hicks
New member
" Again, why use a .308 and maybe hit the target(more likely give your position away) when you can use a .50 BMG/338 and for sure hit the target."
You said this about a 500yd shot. Are you trying to say that using a bigger gun makes you a better shot? Military snipers use .308 for a reason. It works for what they need it to, and they regularly take shots way past 500 yards.
I'm sorry, but I just see a troll trying to start arguments and get his post count up...
You said this about a 500yd shot. Are you trying to say that using a bigger gun makes you a better shot? Military snipers use .308 for a reason. It works for what they need it to, and they regularly take shots way past 500 yards.
I'm sorry, but I just see a troll trying to start arguments and get his post count up...
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