The 6.8 mm Remington SPC

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AlBundy

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Russia 1943 - 7.62x39 invented

United States 2003 - "Hey, I have an idea! Let's make what the Russians made 60 years ago, a new caliber called the 6.8 mm Remington SPC! It's the exact same thing as the 7.62x39mm but we'll charge 4 times more for the ammo and people will pay it because it's not a "commie" gun and it will fit in our ARs!"
 
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No, it's between 7.62x39 and .270Win.

If the OP hasn't noticed, a lot of our troops have been carrying M4s in areas where shots at or over 300m are not unusual. So, while 6.8SPC might not make any sense for him (although a cartridge that shoots fairly flat and accepts .277 bullets for reloaders, and fits in a standard AR lower, doesn't strike me as useless), the 6.8 makes sense in places such as Afghanistan.

Whether it ever gets fielded in large numbers is another question entirely.

But it has definite advantages over the 7.62x39.
 
short life

I predict a short life for the 6.8mm. Course, if the military adopts it across the board, it will fly.

If I'm shooting past 300, I'de like a LOT more rifle, not a minor improvement. Like 7.62x51mm/.308!

I believe Ruber plugged that caliber in the Mini for one reason, to sell more Mini's. (ie, it did not fill a role, it simply was done as a tweak to sell more rifles) . The Mini could be adapted to the platform "easily".

What does not make sense is the .30Rem AR. Isn't that a 7.62x39? essentially???
 
Yeah I know that it does have some advantages, but for me it's not very practical. I realize that this probably looks like a troll thread but I just thought that it was really funny that it was considered "groundbreaking technology" and it's almost the exact same thing. It's like an AK but less reliable and more expensive. Someone should make some really good ammo for the 7.62x39 and see how it compares to the 6.8 in an AR. I bet that a brand new Russian AK with match ammo would give it a run for it's money.
 
It's not .270 performance, but it's higher than 7.62x39.

From Wikipedia:

Muzzle velocity from a 16-inch (410 mm) barrel

85-grain (5.5 g) Barnes TSX ; 3,030 ft/s (920 m/s) - "tactical" factory load
110-grain (7.1 g) Sierra Pro hunter; 2,575 ft/s (785 m/s) - "combat" factory load
110-grain (7.1 g) Hornady BTHP OTM; 2,650 ft/s (810 m/s) - factory load
110-grain (7.1 g) Hornady BTHP OTM; 2,700 ft/s (820 m/s) - "tactical" factory load

From a 16" barrel... that's not exactly wimpy.

Just sayin'.
 
Ballistic performance
Bullet weight/type Velocity Energy
123 gr (8.0 g) Full metal jacket 731.5 m/s (2,400 ft/s) 2,073.6 J (1,529.4 ft·lbf)
154 gr (10.0 g) Spitzer SP 641.3 m/s (2,104 ft/s) 2,056.3 J (1,516.6 ft·lbf)
123.5 gr (8.00 g) Full metal jacket 804.7 m/s (2,640 ft/s) 2,460 J (1,810 ft·lbf)
123 gr (8.0 g) Full metal jacket 738 m/s (2,420 ft/s) 2,179 J (1,607 ft·lbf)
Test barrel length: 415 mm
Source(s): Wolf Ammo[1] Omar [2] Sellier & Bellot [3]

Just for a side by side ...
 
I have a Remington 700 Tactical, and a Remington 700 LTR chambered in 6.8SPC. I might get one re-barrled to 6.5 Grendel however.:D

The cartridge performs great.. at least for me. My AR is in 5.56. But the 6.8 in a bolt gun is great for wood chucks.. coyotes.. and deer.

The two above rifles are deadly accurate as well. The Tactical with the hand loads I have worked up for it... best group I have shot so far was 3/8's of MOA.

I don't snub any caliber... but the 7.62x39 has trouble in the AR platform... mainly because of mags, so not to burst your bubble.. but the AR to ME is the superior platform, so I see the 6.8SPC as a good thing... even still I keep it for the bolt actions.
 
IMO the 6.8spc should've been the caliber the AR was designed for in the first place.

I never considered an AR rifle in 5.56, was not interested. At least not until it became available in a significant caliber.

I'm sure there are 6.8spc loads that aren't that impressive when compared to 7.62x39, but it is much more impressive when loaded to its potential.

I use the Sierra Pro Hunter 110gr. Tactical Loads which produce 2600fps and 1665ft.lbs of energy at the muzzle and 11" of drop at 300 yards according to Silver State Armory's ballistic chart. Not a load to sneeze at especially when it's trajectory closely duplicates the trajectory of 5.56 and 7.62x51.

These are attributes I would consider significant over 7.62x39 especially when the 123gr. 7.62x39 bullet drop is 30"+ at 300 yards.

If I had not already owned a SLR-95 I don't think I'd own an AK. The 6.8spc is a better alternative and available in a more ergonomically friendly rifle.

There is a decent post on the comparisons here:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=343550
 
AR cartridges are limited by magazine length which limits case capacity resulting in a compromise between bullet size, powder charge, and magazine capacity.

There are 30 caliber AR cartridges i.e. 30AR, WC 7.62x40, 300Blackout which use small bullets in the 110-120 grain size due to the small powder capacity.

The Remington 30AR requires long barrels in the 22 inch range to achive the manufacturer's claimed velocities. I don't know what how it will perform in shorter barrel carbines.

Using .308 bullets, AR cartridges are limited to relative slow muzzle velocities similar to the 7.62x39 in 16 inch barrels with large ballistic trajectory drops past 300 yards.

During the development process for the 6.8mm SPC various calibers from 6mm to 7mm were considered with 6.8mm or .277 caliber winning the contest as the best compromise.

The objective for the 6.8mm SPC was to achieve better TERMINAL ballistics over the 5.56 NATO at standard carbine ranges 0-300 yards. In other words, a more lethal cartridge especially in short barrel carbines like the M4 14.5 inch barrel. The barrel reduction from 20 inches in the M16 to 14.5 in in the M4 reduces the muzzle velocity and affects lethality range of the 5.56 NATO considerably.

I think the 6.8mm SPC is more lethal than the 5.56 NATO at all ranges, penetrates barriers better, and is a fine white tail cartridge for medium range (under 250 yards). It's the reluctance of the US Military to change rifle calibers not the performance of the 6.8mm SPC that has led to the 5.56 being kept in service despite minimal improvements in the lates iterations of 5.56 NATO i.e. M855A1 or the MK262.

AR rifles are the most common type of long gun purchased today. The 6.8mm SPC has turned into a fine hunting cartridge for AR style rifles, and I don't see it going anywhere soon unless of one of its competitors i.e. 308blackout takes off. Comparing the ballistics of the 6.8 mm SPC to the 300Blackout, I don't see a big advantage for the 300Blackout from a hunting perspective and only industry support will push it ahead of the 6.8mm SPC in popularity.
 
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Seems to me a lot of folks are looking at the various new chamberings for the AR platform from a strictly tactical point of view. Some may have tactical significance, but I suspect that the point the ammunition manufacturers are looking at is making a popular rifle effective for a wide range of hunting and perhaps also target shooting situations in addition to possible tactical applications. The multitude of different bullet weights and constructions available today, and the new propellants being developed, (i.e. superformance) combined with the easy barrel change in the AR platform makes it a fascinating challenge to develop new rounds based on the 5.56/223 case. Don't forget the 450 Bushmaster as a hog round.
 
"Industry support" isn't what makes or breaks a cartridge. The industry has been supporting the .30 x 5.56 for over 35 years - only now has Remington bothered to adopt it.

Entirely because the 6.8SPC paved the way to become the #1 alternate in the AR in the USA. There's more guns, barrels, and parts out there for 6.8, and more users than any other cartridge in the AR.

How? Hunting. It's where you make or break in the American gun market. If you want to sell a cartridge and keep selling it to new shooters, it has to have something good about it, and the 6.8 has 40% more power in the same range as the AR. That makes it a deer rifle, legal in all states.

It's a standard taper, bullet to case ratio cartridge, that feeds correctly in the AR straight magazine well, which makes it MORE reliable than the x39. If anything, attempting to get the curved mag feed of the x39 through the AR mag well is why so many haven't gone to it - it's the #1 example of why some things shouldn't be done. Please look carefully, the AK doesn't have a mag well like that, for that specific reason.

The 6.8 also has the same power levels as the .30-30, something the x39 struggles to approach. The American hunter has taken deer with the .30-30 for over 100 years, it's always ranked in the top ten in ammo sales, and it works - the effective range out to 250 meters covers what you can usually shoot hunting deer.

Here's another facet of why 6.8 has grown so much: it was developed by Special Forces with the assistance of the Army Marksmanship Unit. When it's said "they" tested different calibers, that means they shot things with it to find out. These guys aren't a bunch of wildcatters, they were working on making a better killing bullet with enough accuracy to do the job. You only need 2MOA out to 500m to do that in combat. Any further, the Army has crew served weapons to do it. The individual shooter in a team or squad isn't assigned that job, and will get knocked upside his kevlar for wasting the ammo.

No, the 6.8SPC wasn't designed to out Bubba the x39, that was already being done with 5.56. Since the Army didn't buy into it, fine, they have much bigger issues. But we came out ahead with a serious cartridge for making the AR a great hunting rifle, which is exactly why I chose it when I built mine. It's not going away soon, if ever, and continues to sell more every year. Ammo is even showing up on the shelf at Cabela's and Academy. It takes a lot of sales to get corporate buyers to switch to something new, and it has to do with making more money. They don't ever do it just to be nice.

Look into it some more, basically none of the preconceptions listed in the first post have any validity. It's not unusual, the average shooter gets fed a lot of baloney from misinformed friends and gun shop employees with sales agendas.
 
I don't mean to offend anyone that likes or owns the caliber. I'm sure that it's really cool, and if you already have an AR, would make sense for you. Personally, if I have a "survival" rifle I don't plan on it ever having to go past 100 yards, let alone 300. If I'm shooting that far I'm breaking out the bolt action. The AK-47 was designed 70 years ago and it's strictly a close to medium range rifle IMHO. I just think that it's kind of funny that we're 60 years behind Russia and revolving all of our weapon advancements around the AR platform. I think that we need to stop trying to make a Swiss Army knife rifle and acknowledge that one rifle just can't do it all. I think that the AR should be used out to 250 yards, then the 308 out to 500 yards, then the .50 BMG for 750+ yards.

On a random note, check out this video. Pretty sickening but crazy nonetheless ... This is what our soldiers are fighting against: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpURk1E3Q9c&feature=related
 
One thing the 6.8 SPC has that the 7.62x39 does not have...... the 6.8 SPC has a normal (i.e. small) amount of case taper, unlike the 7.62x39 which has a radical level of case taper.

This means that the an autoloading rifle in 6.8 has the potential to be quite accurate, just like autoloading rifles in 7.62x51 and 5.56x45.

Because of the radical case taper, it is very difficult (perhaps impossible) to make an accurate autoloading rifle in 7.62x39. The Russians switched to a 5.45mm round in 1974, I am sure they had good reasons to do so.

if I have a "survival" rifle I don't plan on it ever having to go past 100 yards, let alone 300. If I'm shooting that far I'm breaking out the bolt action. The AK-47 was designed 70 years ago and it's strictly a close to medium range rifle IMHO. I just think that it's kind of funny that we're 60 years behind Russia and revolving all of our weapon advancements around the AR platform. I think that we need to stop trying to make a Swiss Army knife rifle and acknowledge that one rifle just can't do it all. I think that the AR should be used out to 250 yards, then the 308 out to 500 yards, then the .50 BMG for 750+ yards.

How many rifles do you plan to carry with you in a survival situation?

You like AK's... I get that. It is a personal preference. There is no need to appologize for it, and no need to criticize others' choice of an AR-15 to make your choice of an AK-47 seem smart. There is no right answer, and honestly, no one really cares what you choose to shoot.
 
I just think that it's kind of funny that we're 60 years behind Russia and revolving all of our weapon advancements around the AR platform.

I think YOU might be the one behind there Ace.;) Russia ditched the 7.62x39 awhile back for a smaller cartridge much like the 5.56 of our AR.

Their new service rifle.. the AK-74 is chambered in 5.45x39.

There is a reason the little "poodle shooter" rounds are used as a standard issue.. and the bigger bore things are given to a special select few.. but that is a whole other can of works.
 
I think that we need to stop trying to make a Swiss Army knife rifle and acknowledge that one rifle just can't do it all. I think that the AR should be used out to 250 yards, then the 308 out to 500 yards, then the .50 BMG for 750+ yards.

And I think-with all due respect- that you're just plain wrong...

Where in the world did you get your information that the .308 is limited to 500 yards??

BOTH our .308 bolt, AND our 6.5 Grendel AR have been taken to 600 yards in a cakewalk, and they'll go to 1000 next range trip.

The .50 BMG is designed for engagements well beyond 750 yards. There are many calibers that can make the trip to 1000, but not many other than the 6.5 Grendel that can do it effectively in mag length from an AR.

I do agree with you on the 6.8 SPC. It was fine at the time of it's development, but it has been eclipsed in a big way. Here we go again...
 
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