Texas School Where Teachers Carry

Flinging acid in a tight classroom is fantasy. Say goodbye to your hands. Also got shot and spill it all over yourself.

Also, we have many large classrooms and lecture venues. Easily targeted.

Every argument against carry in the school, applies to religious institutions or malls. Crowded, confusion, panic, friendly fire, etc.

However, I support carry in all. I do strongly say I have no sympathy for those who want to carry and haven't taken the time to get a modicum of training as compared to just saying they 'would take him' out.
 
Yes, I know that. It's not the 70s anymore, and having guns stored in schools now would be very different.

I do strongly say I have no sympathy for those who want to carry and haven't taken the time to get a modicum of training as compared to just saying they 'would take him' out
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I do have to say that, while I support "carry everywhere", Glenn is absolutely right that folks need to inspect their own motives why they would want to carry in schools, and be willing to get the training and self-discipline that would be needed.
 
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Besides being the worst classroom defense I've ever heard of, using HCl, one of the least aggressive acids, will almost certainly guarantee your demise.
Chemical weapons have a history of biting back. When you are unarmed, your best defense is still feets don't fail me now! Run the herd out of barn.
 
Sparks1957 said:
Yes, I know that. It's not the 70s anymore, and having guns stored in schools now would be very different.
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It went on WAY past the '70s. My school had a rifle team until several years after I graduated, which was 1993.

However, single shot, bolt action 22short rifles aren't exactly massacre or defensive arms. I'd consider them essentially irrelevant from any angle.
 
I'd consider them essentially irrelevant from any angle
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True enough. I was thinking more that the whole psychological impact of having guns stored in schools would be different now, with the cultural shift. Students and most staff in most schools don't remember those days, and might see it quite differently than we did back then.
 
Interestingly, I'm almost positive that those rifles are still there. If they're not, I don't know where they went. By law, they'd have to be auctioned off and I know that hasn't happened.

I doubt most people have any knowledge of them or give it any thought if they do.
 
Dr Big Bird PhD said:
General question regarding school grounds: Obviously public schools fall under all these laws, however, what if the elementary school was private? Could the principal or teachers have ccw's and carry (in theory) if the school board allowed it?
Mind you I'm not talking about Texas where it has more lax laws regarding this issue.
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18 USC 922(q)(2)
(A)It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

(B)Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—

(iv)by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;

(v)by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;

Slightly off-topic but I think an important distinction in terminology:

lax
Adjective
1.Not sufficiently strict or severe.
2.Careless.

A more accurate term, without the above connotations, would be "less restrictive". One on-line dictionary defines "restrictive" as: "Imposing restrictions or limitations on someone's activities or freedom". Anti-RKBA groups often use the word "lax" in their rantings with all its negative connotations. Pro-RKBA folks should used less 'loaded' terminology with a more 'positive' aspect. We shouldn't, again and still, let the anti's define the playing field as we have with "high capacity magazine' and "assault weapon/rifle".
 
Trying to hit a protected invader among a mass of students would probably not work.
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However, single shot, bolt action 22short rifles aren't exactly massacre or defensive arms. I'd consider them essentially irrelevant from any angle.
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Either option would be preferable to having students waiting to see if the killer either runs out of bullets or gets tired of killing them ...... these cowards generally kill themselves at the first sign of opposition......

There are teachers/administrators at both the Elementary School and Jr./Sr. High School here that could, I think, do the necessary if one of these atrocties occurred here.
 
Why a school?

I wonder if the school shootings and the theater in Colorado were chosen as targets because the shooter knew they were gun-free zones with little or no chance of resistance? Perhaps the thought that there might be armed resistance in some of these places might discourage potential shooters. I think armed school staff should be required to train with the police for such possible scenarios. It is a tragedy about the CT shooting for sure.

When I went to high school many of the students drove pickup trucks to school with loaded rifles and shotguns in gunracks in the back window and left the trucks unlocked with windows down. Nobody ever got shot and no guns were stolen. It wasn't an issue. It is a shame those days are gone forever.
 
This has been discussed before. One of our members, Double Naught Spy has posted some pretty good breakdowns of deterrence and gun free zones.

The bottom line is that we have rampages in carry areas and even in places known to have a lot of guns. It depends on the motivation of the shooter. If they have a personal grudge against the location, deterrence may not be a factor. If they expect to die, it may not be a big factor.

We can't know the folks who didn't go here or there, if they didn't act. We have some cases where the target area was switched (because we caught the guy) due to armed presence.

Columbine had a cop, for instance. Tyler, Tacoma, Tucson, and others were 'gun places'.

No clean answer on this. The best one is that if you are armed and if an incident breaks out, depending on circumstances you may be able to to positively act. How to act is another giant debate.
 
Response to comments.
My original posting concerning the Philippines said nothing about storage in the school. The weapons were "issued" to the individual teacher who carried it constantly.

A number of years ago I was considering getting my teaching certificate through the "troops to classroom" program. Most of the former SMs went to low performing schools.

I took a job as a private security guard assigned to a local High School to determine if I really wanted to teach. My concern was that management would not let me teach.

Security was abysmal.

The school was and open campus design which could not be secured.

The principle had no interest in security issues. Despite the fact that during my 6 month tenure two individuals entered the campus and attacked students. One student was hospitalized from the attack. Despite the severity of the assaults no charges were filed. A suspended student was allowed to enter the campus. He attempted to burn the Junior high school down. once again no charges.

The LEO assigned as school resource officer had basically been removed from patrol for failure to perform. She froze during a shoot out and screwed up during a number of lessor situations. My friends on the force told me that she could not be trusted in any situation. During one student fight she locked herself in her office and refused to respond.

My instructions were to get the students in a classroom and find a location to observe and report. The most effective defensive tool I had was a dry chemical fire extinguisher. The whole concept of my training is to protect and defend. I could not live with those instructions.

I hope this is not the general state of security in our schools but I fear it is.
 
One more issue with teachers carrying:

What happens the first time a teacher is breaking up a fight and loses their carry piece?

I've had to break up a few fights, including some that went to the ground where I was trying to pull one kid off another, in that situation it would be all to easy to lose control of your carry piece. Now you have an armed student in a fight situation.

I know I"m raising a what if (and my dad always said that what if your aunt had balls she'd be your uncle) but in 4 years of teaching I"ve had to break up a half a dozen fights; some of which I had to get rather physical.

As for the rush to condescension regarding HCL, its stored in a locked, vented chemical locker in sealed glass containers. Is it a perfect solution? No. But I live in Washington state, and as such I cannot even bring a pocketknife to school with longer than a 3 inch blade. You have a better idea if an active shooter comes in?
 
Yes, I've broken up plenty of fights over the years, and most have not required me to roll around on the floor with the kids. A good retention holster should do the trick and keep the gun out the wrong hands.

Perhaps you shouldn't be one of the teachers in your building to volunteer should this ever come to pass.

The acid is still a terrible idea. You have an obligation to keep your students safe, and throwing acid at an attacker will most certainly provoke them to attack more violently than they might have originally, with little guarantee of permanent harm to the attacker and a really good chance of harming others, especially with a fuming acid like HCl

I would still attempt to get my kids into a locked room away from windows, and if someone came in I would have to make a decision to give my life if necessary in an attempt to save theirs as I tried to disarm the attacker.
 
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Falcon642 ....Besides I teach science and I have gallons of hydrochloric acid in my classroom. My kids know that in the event of an active shooter, we lock the doors and fill beakers with acid.
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Seriously??? With an active shooter situation you and your students are going to start filling beakers of acid.

Thats just plain silly.

If the door opens, the person who opens it will get a beaker full of HCL in their face.
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And if that person happens to be a police officer, fireman or another teacher?

I suppose a biology teacher will come along shortly and tell us how he's going to fling snakes and frogs at the first person who walks through the door.:rolleyes:
 
Thanks Glen E. Meyer I was also hoping that discussion would end.

When I started this thread I was hoping for information to share about other parts of the country that had simillar programs and how they went about getting them in place. Maybe also about how the local law enforcement was involved.

Maybe also here from communities where they had tried to impliment such a program and couldn't get it done. If this was even considered in my area I am not aware of it. Without the top school administrator being a champion for the cause maybe it couldn't happen.

This is a link to a follow up of the original article < http://blogs.star-telegram.com/crim...ters-seek-infamy-through-big-body-counts.html > does include new information about their program, also some comments.
Most interesting to me was;
Quoted from the article: "For example, Thweatt said the so-called "guardian plan" is patterned after the Federal Air Marshal program, in which plain-clothes officers guard airline flights, but passengers are not supposed to know who they are, or that they’re armed."

Neither article included anything about the cost (in dollars) to the school district. I am thinking this would be the last line of defence for our school children and probably cost a lot less than other measures that have already failed if this measure comes into play.

Gotta go for now and make a living, I will check back in when I can.

Thanks to all those that replied!
James
 
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