Terrorists 101
- Thread starter GoSlash27
- Start date
I applaud you and giggle at the squirming and 
go: I was just making another sarcastic comment.
do I doubt his sincirity? yes, and no. I believe that if(in an imaginary fairy tale land) we were to remove all our forces from all muslim countries right now, their might be peace, for awhile. That is until the extremists found something else to fight. see we are just their battle cry right now. "come fight the infidels with us in our home" ra ra speach's work great. right now we are the biggest and best target. If we go away that still does not accomplish their goal. I do not believe for one minute(again in this fairy tale world) if we left that the fight would not eventually be brought back to us. so in reality we have to fight terrorists, no if ands or buts about it.
It is to bad however that years of terrible foreign policy have given OBL such good excuses. I mean look at the recruiting they are doing(probably pisses off the army) now.
weeg: it was taken to them again after 9/11 and then sidetracked by the war in iraq.
tegemu: very true. Terrorism in all its forms is evil. I hope that we do not concentrate to much on middle eastern terrorism and miss another 9/11. I sincerely hope we dont get another cold war mentality, but to be honest, Im not sure that that is not going on.
eghad: the al-qauda manual didnt need to be mentioned(IMHO). The muslims and the extremists are two dif. groups of people(not that one cant become the other). the majority of muslims are not the people who were described in the above links, and would have nothing to do with that manual. It is the other smaller group you have to worry about.
bigjack: did you read the "I challenge you thread"?
do I doubt his sincirity? yes, and no. I believe that if(in an imaginary fairy tale land) we were to remove all our forces from all muslim countries right now, their might be peace, for awhile. That is until the extremists found something else to fight. see we are just their battle cry right now. "come fight the infidels with us in our home" ra ra speach's work great. right now we are the biggest and best target. If we go away that still does not accomplish their goal. I do not believe for one minute(again in this fairy tale world) if we left that the fight would not eventually be brought back to us. so in reality we have to fight terrorists, no if ands or buts about it.
It is to bad however that years of terrible foreign policy have given OBL such good excuses. I mean look at the recruiting they are doing(probably pisses off the army) now.
weeg: it was taken to them again after 9/11 and then sidetracked by the war in iraq.
tegemu: very true. Terrorism in all its forms is evil. I hope that we do not concentrate to much on middle eastern terrorism and miss another 9/11. I sincerely hope we dont get another cold war mentality, but to be honest, Im not sure that that is not going on.
eghad: the al-qauda manual didnt need to be mentioned(IMHO). The muslims and the extremists are two dif. groups of people(not that one cant become the other). the majority of muslims are not the people who were described in the above links, and would have nothing to do with that manual. It is the other smaller group you have to worry about.
bigjack: did you read the "I challenge you thread"?
As far as violence in Chrisitan theology...
is modern Christianity based off the Old Testament or the New Testament?
Chrisitan means Christ like. Christ is part of the New Testament
Compare Mohammed and Jesus, two entirely different people two entirely different doctrines.
Mohammed: "Slaughter is better than persecution"
Jesus: "Then the men began to arrest Jesus, but Peter used a sword to cut off a man's ear. Jesus scolded Peter for doing that: "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword." Jesus healed the injured man's ear and then allowed Himself to be arrested and led away."
Paradise: A place to have unlimited sex, drink wine that is not intoxicating of course, gushing water
Heaven: eternal life and eternal rest, talk to God directly.
Two completely different philosophies.........
This in not intended to give a free ride to those who misused Chritianity to persecute others. We know that they were not practicing the true doctrines of Christ.
To say that Islam began as a peacful religion and during a lot of its history was peaceful is not exactly true as some apologists would have us beleive.
This does not mean that the majority of Muslims want to go around waging war. They want a religion to fulfill them as a person.
is modern Christianity based off the Old Testament or the New Testament?
Chrisitan means Christ like. Christ is part of the New Testament
Compare Mohammed and Jesus, two entirely different people two entirely different doctrines.
Mohammed: "Slaughter is better than persecution"
Jesus: "Then the men began to arrest Jesus, but Peter used a sword to cut off a man's ear. Jesus scolded Peter for doing that: "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword." Jesus healed the injured man's ear and then allowed Himself to be arrested and led away."
Paradise: A place to have unlimited sex, drink wine that is not intoxicating of course, gushing water
Heaven: eternal life and eternal rest, talk to God directly.
Two completely different philosophies.........
This in not intended to give a free ride to those who misused Chritianity to persecute others. We know that they were not practicing the true doctrines of Christ.
To say that Islam began as a peacful religion and during a lot of its history was peaceful is not exactly true as some apologists would have us beleive.
This does not mean that the majority of Muslims want to go around waging war. They want a religion to fulfill them as a person.
I see that you did not include humiliation as one of the factors to people becoming terrorists....as well as lack of human rights, poverty, ect....
Abu Gharib... Islamic men humiliated ( There will be those that jump up and say but hey they chop heads off) this is not about that, but the fact that it gives the Jihadist proof that America is out to humiliate Islam and can be used as a recruitng tool.
Can you imagine the resentment some Muslims feel in seeing American Soldiers and tanks cruising around what once used to be one of the great capitals of Islam?
Not to mention the fact that we are trying to mold an Islamic people into a western type of democracy.
Dozens of examples that can be given.
Our lack of education about Islam is what is hurting us and is the reason that we have stepped in the big pile of cowpoo that is called Iraq.
Abu Gharib... Islamic men humiliated ( There will be those that jump up and say but hey they chop heads off) this is not about that, but the fact that it gives the Jihadist proof that America is out to humiliate Islam and can be used as a recruitng tool.
Can you imagine the resentment some Muslims feel in seeing American Soldiers and tanks cruising around what once used to be one of the great capitals of Islam?
Not to mention the fact that we are trying to mold an Islamic people into a western type of democracy.
Dozens of examples that can be given.
Our lack of education about Islam is what is hurting us and is the reason that we have stepped in the big pile of cowpoo that is called Iraq.
eghad: the bible and the koran are both up to interpretation. As you can see by all the people who interpret it differentlly but use the same text.
eghad: if you read those links they think they are defending islam. i.e. a defensive war. OBL lists all the things that we have done to provoke him in a couple of his press releases.
bigjack: my point was that name calling and arguing just to argue do not make discussions on this board go smooth. I come here because I like firearms, and believe it is a right granted me by the constitution to own them. the legal and political thread is just a bonus. Please just try argue your point without slander, going off topic, or making false accusations(not meant to be towards you, it is for all).
eghad: all the stuff in your post #26 is implied in the links above, go just didnt mention them.
eghad: if you read those links they think they are defending islam. i.e. a defensive war. OBL lists all the things that we have done to provoke him in a couple of his press releases.
bigjack: my point was that name calling and arguing just to argue do not make discussions on this board go smooth. I come here because I like firearms, and believe it is a right granted me by the constitution to own them. the legal and political thread is just a bonus. Please just try argue your point without slander, going off topic, or making false accusations(not meant to be towards you, it is for all).
eghad: all the stuff in your post #26 is implied in the links above, go just didnt mention them.
noone
You mean the Koran and the Hadith.....
so the provoking was the grounds for murder of around 3000 people?, The murder of sailors on board the Cole, The murder of fellow muslims and others in the embassy attacks?
If you read the training manual you will realize that they are out to get rid of Western Civilization period.
If that is your definition of defense then does that mean as a gun owner I can kill someone because they have provoked me? dont think so. If you wish to be an apologist for Jihadists go right ahead. If you want to experience some tolerance and peaceful co-existance pack your bible go to downtown Alexandria in Egypt or Ridayh in Saudi find a streetcorner and tell them about Jesus and Christianity...
You mean the Koran and the Hadith.....
so the provoking was the grounds for murder of around 3000 people?, The murder of sailors on board the Cole, The murder of fellow muslims and others in the embassy attacks?
If you read the training manual you will realize that they are out to get rid of Western Civilization period.
If that is your definition of defense then does that mean as a gun owner I can kill someone because they have provoked me? dont think so. If you wish to be an apologist for Jihadists go right ahead. If you want to experience some tolerance and peaceful co-existance pack your bible go to downtown Alexandria in Egypt or Ridayh in Saudi find a streetcorner and tell them about Jesus and Christianity...
eghad: wow buddy, simmer down. again another person reading to much into what I said, or what they want to hear. did I ever state that? no. I stated taht that is what they believe.
american intervention in muslim affairs.
ours and british support for israel(palestine, which ever team you are on).
supporting the russians in afgh.
the saudi's picking us to defend some of the holiest sites to the muslims in S.A. i.e. dessert shield/storm.
our meddeling in somalia.
etc, etc, yada, yada, yada.
none of these are reasons, nor have I ever condoned their reasons.
quit making false assertations because you want to argue. this topic was brought up to show you a little insight into what extremist think like. if your not here to discuss that you are a troll.
uhm no. if you read the text in the links(which is the basis for this thread. you that they think that the reasons have to do with:
american intervention in muslim affairs.
ours and british support for israel(palestine, which ever team you are on).
supporting the russians in afgh.
the saudi's picking us to defend some of the holiest sites to the muslims in S.A. i.e. dessert shield/storm.
our meddeling in somalia.
etc, etc, yada, yada, yada.
none of these are reasons, nor have I ever condoned their reasons.
quit making false assertations because you want to argue. this topic was brought up to show you a little insight into what extremist think like. if your not here to discuss that you are a troll.
Eghad,
Exactly what noone said. You're dealing with 2 distinct groups, the enemy and the Muslims. The enemy has already vowed to carry the fight to us and will never stop until their last dying breath.
The Muslims either make that possible by joining them or make it impossible by joining us.
Confusing the two merely plays into your enemy's hands.
And as for Weeg,
Yeah, we really showed them, huh?
Exactly what noone said. You're dealing with 2 distinct groups, the enemy and the Muslims. The enemy has already vowed to carry the fight to us and will never stop until their last dying breath.
The Muslims either make that possible by joining them or make it impossible by joining us.
Confusing the two merely plays into your enemy's hands.
And as for Weeg,
Sure, if by 'them' you mean folks who had nothing to do with it. Now we're embroiled in a war of attrition with an enemy that has unlimited resources. And no plan whatsoever as to how to win.
Yeah, we really showed them, huh?
The enemy are also Muslims.... Islam had a violent past and is not always a peaceful and tolerant religon as some apologists would have us beleive. Does that mean that all Muslims are out to destroy us..no. Like I said grab your bible and head for a streetcorner in downtown Alexandria, Egypt and start preaching see how much tolerance and love you get. While a muslim here can grab a street corner and preach away... big difference in philosophies between western civilization and Islam. Google muslim violence and harrassment against christians wonder how many hits you will get? Yet here in the states if you say Islam can be violent and nontolerant you are branded an Islamaphobe...
This is not to say that there has been no violence by Chrisitians against Muslims.
However the Muslim Websites would have us beleive that violence is only related to Chritianity and has never been a part of Islam.
thats when I pull the hipwaders on...
to say that extremist and fundamentalist muslims are only "defending" Islam is a bit shortsighted. Thier purpose is not to coexist with us but to destroy our way of life.
I agree with you that Iraq has been a mess and we have screwed the pooch there so far. However I do not totaly agree on your assesment of Islam and terrorists.
This is not to say that there has been no violence by Chrisitians against Muslims.
However the Muslim Websites would have us beleive that violence is only related to Chritianity and has never been a part of Islam.
thats when I pull the hipwaders on...
to say that extremist and fundamentalist muslims are only "defending" Islam is a bit shortsighted. Thier purpose is not to coexist with us but to destroy our way of life.
I agree with you that Iraq has been a mess and we have screwed the pooch there so far. However I do not totaly agree on your assesment of Islam and terrorists.
eghad: again these are no ones views on islam. they are links showing you how some of islam(the extremists) views things.
again no one ever said any of that stuff in your above post.
again no one ever said any of that stuff in your above post.
again you have two different sides to deal with here. just because some are, does not mean all are. you cant group all of islam like that.
Understand that terrorist organizations until Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda have been basically either tools of governments or regimes (Hezbollah and the IRA) or small scale anarchist wackos where no government is pulling the strings. OBL and Al Qaeda is different because they are basically a large rouge organization. We cannot stop Al Qaeda by putting pressure on Syria or Iran like we could with Hezbollah. How do we stop them?? We could bend to their demands. Should we completely pull out of every Islamic country, including ones they claimed as their own??? Look at a world map. That is every country from Indonesia (which was unknown during the time of Mohammed) all the way through the Middle East and into parts of Europe. Why should we bend??? What if an American terrorist organization started killing Muslims here and demanding the every Muslim leave the country and to force every middle east country to cease doing business here, how would that effect America?? Would the same happen to the Middle East if we pulled out??? Its not every Muslim that is at war against us or every Muslim country, it is basically one Radical Billionaire Wacko that created a large terrorist organization, which created a movement, and now it has momentum. This is Bin Laden's belief that the western world and the USA stinks and should be attacked, and some of the Muslim community overwhelming rejected that however there are some that agree, while other joined the fight. I disagree with the Bush administration and some in the military that say Bin Laden is important but not the only target. Unlike most Islamic terrorist organizations Al Qaeda attacked the US directly by hitting the USS Cole and then 9/11. Bush should have dumped everything he had into killing Bin Laden and the heads of Al Qaeda. Unfortunately contrary to popular belief the CIA and the US Military was not set up well post 9/11 to assassinate or go on a manhunt for a handful of guys. To Bush's credit, look how the US public is torn over Iraq...over 2,000 deaths over 2 plus years...was the US public ready for us to lose 5,000 to 10,000 men in one engagement to get Bin Laden???
So why isn't Bin Laden flying the plane, why isn't Zarqawi driving the truck bomb??? Because they are the brains, the leaders, the head of the organization. You kill the leaders, you kill the organization, you kill the anti American movement. If 3/4 of Al Qaeda was killed or captured AND BIN LADEN WAS DEAD within 6 months after 9/11/01, we would not be having this conversation.
I've read, and reread, the thread and links. It's interesting, but also requires a viewpoint that few Westerners possess. Some of what the Muslims believe is unbelievable to Western civilization. That the Islamists expect us to somehow understand them is dangerous. Islam is a religion full of contradictions, many caused by the schism that created the Sunnis and Shiites. That such contradictions exist is what makes this religion so dangerous, for it isn't just a religion, but a form of government, too.
Should the Islamic fundamentalists gain the ascendancy in more countries, the results of their inability to understand the Western cultures could result in the utter destruction of large areas of the Middle East, Africa, and Asia. Careful what you ask for, as you may get it. It may even cause a general call for religious genocide. If I were a supproter of Islam, I'd be paying attention to the historical facts that Western Civilizations, when pushed to war, are much more likely to totally extinguish populations beyond anything that the Muslims would.
Should the Islamic fundamentalists gain the ascendancy in more countries, the results of their inability to understand the Western cultures could result in the utter destruction of large areas of the Middle East, Africa, and Asia. Careful what you ask for, as you may get it. It may even cause a general call for religious genocide. If I were a supproter of Islam, I'd be paying attention to the historical facts that Western Civilizations, when pushed to war, are much more likely to totally extinguish populations beyond anything that the Muslims would.
Actually, OBM has never been a "man in the trenches". He has always been to valuable a contributor to let loose in an engagement. He has the same number of bodyguards as the aforementioned people.
I also fail to see how that has any relevance to anything. If we were to require a veteran of combat to command the political side of this, all we'd hear about is how this person wasn't "really" in combat.
If anything, we can see where requiring people who "understand things" has gotten us by looking at Congress. Should all lawmakers be lawyers? Would it require chemical engineers to pass enviornmental laws? Perhaps only LEOs should be able to deal with LEO budgets and compensation packages. After all, only "they" understand.
At the point where only those in a certain field can decide what to do or not, we no longer have a government, we have chaos. The draft ended in the early 1970's. There were a large number of Americans who registered for the draft who weren't drafted. Are they somehow less American than those who were drafted, and sat for all two years in a camp in America?
I also fail to see how that has any relevance to anything. If we were to require a veteran of combat to command the political side of this, all we'd hear about is how this person wasn't "really" in combat.
If anything, we can see where requiring people who "understand things" has gotten us by looking at Congress. Should all lawmakers be lawyers? Would it require chemical engineers to pass enviornmental laws? Perhaps only LEOs should be able to deal with LEO budgets and compensation packages. After all, only "they" understand.
At the point where only those in a certain field can decide what to do or not, we no longer have a government, we have chaos. The draft ended in the early 1970's. There were a large number of Americans who registered for the draft who weren't drafted. Are they somehow less American than those who were drafted, and sat for all two years in a camp in America?