Tempering Emotion with Reason
- Thread starter jcoiii
- Start date
You're good right up to there. Now let's kill all the terrorists.
And let's not waste any 'target rich' environments, either. When you see 1500 Islamo-whacks dancing around burning American flags, etc, that's a target-rich environment. When you see 50 of them dancing around a burning Bradley-yep, you guessed it-target rich environment. Smoke their asses right there. Why?
When the sun goes down and or the protest is over, what do you suppose these fine folks are doing? Wrapping that black thingy around their faces, and grabbing an armload of RPG's, that's what. Loading a truck with exoplosives. If they never make it from point A (the protest) to point B (RPG's, truck bomb, etc.) well...they ain't quite so much of a problem now, are they?
What to do with them here in the US is a little more complicated...but I bet we can figure something out. Yankee ingenuity, doncha know.
It's really too bad for the terrorists, that chose a religion to hide behind. If they were smart they'd have chosen cover, over concealment.
To gdm...
I'm glad to see another American represent what equality, and fairness is all about. There are still many minds out there to educate that not every Muslim is a jihadist. (Believe me some of the threads I've took part in, there were some heavy prejudices. Also being of South Asian descent my skin color has made me a target at times with people I encounter, though it isn't as bad as say 10-15 years ago.) As for those who spoke of Wahabi ideals, that particular ideal is what fuels terrorists in the form of Al Qaeda and the former Taliban. Also to those who are still under the idea that all Muslims are evil, I would think that a religion that has been around for about 1,500 years couldn't last that long and would go the way of the Aztecs. Another argument I'd make about it, is the fact that many Muslims in this country are tax-paying, law abiding citizens, heck many of them are either fence sitters or antis when it comes to firearms. Not only that, but Muslims aren't waiting for "the right moment" to jihad it up. Most have families to take care of, they have the things they want because they live in this country and work for what they get. Suicide bombers and such happen out of desperation and the loss of hope and positive opportunities. My family is Muslim, and even though I have no claim on any religion, I would say that they deserve to be here just like anyone else. Many of the Muslim families I have met in this country are fairly wealthy because they took advantage of the economic opportunities to grow strong financially here.
Epyon
P.S: If anyone would like to talk or ask questions about Islam, feel free to pm me. I think if people would actually try to understand instead of jumping to conclusions about a religion they know nothing about except what the media tells them should really go to a mosque, meet the people there, be polite and courteous and just ask objective questions. Just remember, that this country is based on the fact that we are all from different backrounds, our diversity is what makes us a strong nation.
I'm glad to see another American represent what equality, and fairness is all about. There are still many minds out there to educate that not every Muslim is a jihadist. (Believe me some of the threads I've took part in, there were some heavy prejudices. Also being of South Asian descent my skin color has made me a target at times with people I encounter, though it isn't as bad as say 10-15 years ago.) As for those who spoke of Wahabi ideals, that particular ideal is what fuels terrorists in the form of Al Qaeda and the former Taliban. Also to those who are still under the idea that all Muslims are evil, I would think that a religion that has been around for about 1,500 years couldn't last that long and would go the way of the Aztecs. Another argument I'd make about it, is the fact that many Muslims in this country are tax-paying, law abiding citizens, heck many of them are either fence sitters or antis when it comes to firearms. Not only that, but Muslims aren't waiting for "the right moment" to jihad it up. Most have families to take care of, they have the things they want because they live in this country and work for what they get. Suicide bombers and such happen out of desperation and the loss of hope and positive opportunities. My family is Muslim, and even though I have no claim on any religion, I would say that they deserve to be here just like anyone else. Many of the Muslim families I have met in this country are fairly wealthy because they took advantage of the economic opportunities to grow strong financially here.
Epyon
P.S: If anyone would like to talk or ask questions about Islam, feel free to pm me. I think if people would actually try to understand instead of jumping to conclusions about a religion they know nothing about except what the media tells them should really go to a mosque, meet the people there, be polite and courteous and just ask objective questions. Just remember, that this country is based on the fact that we are all from different backrounds, our diversity is what makes us a strong nation.
Mad Martigan
New member
Still on that torture rant?pitz said:
If you mean legal justice, then I agree. Beyond that it is a fool's hope. Life isn't Just. Life isn't fair.pitz said:
trip20 said:
Give us an alternative, then.
If it's so easy to find one, as you seem to be implying, why is it that whatever solution is right there in front of our noses, we are not using it?
Is the solution to turn it all into a big parking lot? You say no.
Is the solution to make us take our shoes off at the airport security checkpoint? To forbid us to carry pocket knives on planes? Now, to forbid us to bring beverages, contact lens solution, toothpaste on planes? I think anyone with a working brain would say not.
Is the solution to capitulate to radical islam? NO.
So what, pray tell, alternatives to going whole-hog against our enemies with little regard for what innocents they HIDE BEHIND LIKE COWARDS are you offering?
Seems to me -- nothing as yet.
But you're sure quick to condemn others' possible solutions.
-azurefly
Mad Martigan
New member
I would suggest some real domestic security as a first step. Let's start there.
Mad Martigan
New member
I don't understand. You want me to outline what I would do differently, that isn't happening now, but it can't be theoretical? Is it supposed to be a Law or what?
What is ambiguous about beginning by improving our domestic security? Our port security is crap. Our border security is crap. Our airport security is crap. Why not fortify our home position before we do much of anything else, or at least concurrently?
What is ambiguous about beginning by improving our domestic security? Our port security is crap. Our border security is crap. Our airport security is crap. Why not fortify our home position before we do much of anything else, or at least concurrently?
DonR101395
New member
They look like any other 20-30 something Pakistani in the F6 or F7 market in Islamabad. They also look like they should be pulled aside during additional screenings at the airport. I'm a white guy in Pakistan right now. If pakistan had a problem with white guys blowing things up I would expect to be stopped by the police and questioned. I have nothing to hide since I'm not blowing anything up here so it doesn't bother me.
Doubletaptap
New member
I believe for one thing, the media is responsible for a lot of the frustrations and excitement that has us all paranoid today.
My friend says it's Pres. Bush's way to get people to vote vor him instead of someone who would do some good in office. He's a bit odd.
The news people seem to want to drag out the worst of a little thing and interject altruisms to keep people on the edge of terror!! And show it over and over until it is imprinted in our minds.
According to them we must all worry and stay inside because something or someone is going to "get us". Don't trust anyone.
These incidents of "terror" are isolated and have been dealt with and are over. There's lots more people with nothing to lose out there ready to jump on the terror bandwagon just to make a mark or get on tv. (they'll be terrorists too when they do)They're crazy or brainwashed to the point of self destruction for a cause.But there's not millions of them as the news would have you believe.
I live in a apartment community where 90%, yes 90% of the population are islamic,hindu,whatever. I just label them as "Iranians" (I'm shallow)but many are from Pakistan,Iraq,Iran, Turkey and other countries.
We have had people wanting to move in and see one of the residents and decide not to because they "heard on the news that anyone wearing a turban, or "looks like that" is a terrorist".
I must say my neighbors are all mostly good natured and will be glad to say hello if we pass on the sidewalk. Some will not because of their culture.
I am not afraid of my neighbors. Most all of them work next door at Compac(HP). Now just think what they could do there if they were terrorists!!!
My signature says "Don't believe the hype". It's a shame someone can't convince the American public that.
Turn off your tv,throw away your newspapers,turn off your news radio and get a life.
I like to believe our people are handling this matter in the best way they know how. Let them do their job and get back to living your life instead of total paranoia. If your wife has a moustache, is she a terrorist?
I get so sick of hearing the word TERROR pounded into my brain everywhere I go it's amazing. If you wear a t-shirt with arabic writing on it you're a terrorist? Every convienence store is owned and operated by a terrorist?
HP computers is majorially staffed by terrorists? If your skin is brown you're a terrorist? Good Lord people, what are we coming to be.
WE ARE THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
ONE NATION,UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE.
WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.
FREEDOM AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS.
We are being opressed by our own news media. Torn in our beliefs, unable to judge for ourselves.Mentored by the terror hype. It's money for the news casters,paranoia for the public.
STAND UP DAMMIT AND BE AMERICAN. If you find a terrorist,deal with him or her. But chances are we as civilians never will have to.
What are we afraid of??? NOTHING!!! Except the news media people.
And the lady with the moustache!!
My friend says it's Pres. Bush's way to get people to vote vor him instead of someone who would do some good in office. He's a bit odd.
The news people seem to want to drag out the worst of a little thing and interject altruisms to keep people on the edge of terror!! And show it over and over until it is imprinted in our minds.
According to them we must all worry and stay inside because something or someone is going to "get us". Don't trust anyone.
These incidents of "terror" are isolated and have been dealt with and are over. There's lots more people with nothing to lose out there ready to jump on the terror bandwagon just to make a mark or get on tv. (they'll be terrorists too when they do)They're crazy or brainwashed to the point of self destruction for a cause.But there's not millions of them as the news would have you believe.
I live in a apartment community where 90%, yes 90% of the population are islamic,hindu,whatever. I just label them as "Iranians" (I'm shallow)but many are from Pakistan,Iraq,Iran, Turkey and other countries.
We have had people wanting to move in and see one of the residents and decide not to because they "heard on the news that anyone wearing a turban, or "looks like that" is a terrorist".
I must say my neighbors are all mostly good natured and will be glad to say hello if we pass on the sidewalk. Some will not because of their culture.
I am not afraid of my neighbors. Most all of them work next door at Compac(HP). Now just think what they could do there if they were terrorists!!!
My signature says "Don't believe the hype". It's a shame someone can't convince the American public that.
Turn off your tv,throw away your newspapers,turn off your news radio and get a life.
I like to believe our people are handling this matter in the best way they know how. Let them do their job and get back to living your life instead of total paranoia. If your wife has a moustache, is she a terrorist?
I get so sick of hearing the word TERROR pounded into my brain everywhere I go it's amazing. If you wear a t-shirt with arabic writing on it you're a terrorist? Every convienence store is owned and operated by a terrorist?
HP computers is majorially staffed by terrorists? If your skin is brown you're a terrorist? Good Lord people, what are we coming to be.
WE ARE THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
ONE NATION,UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE.
WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.
FREEDOM AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS.
We are being opressed by our own news media. Torn in our beliefs, unable to judge for ourselves.Mentored by the terror hype. It's money for the news casters,paranoia for the public.
STAND UP DAMMIT AND BE AMERICAN. If you find a terrorist,deal with him or her. But chances are we as civilians never will have to.
What are we afraid of??? NOTHING!!! Except the news media people.
And the lady with the moustache!!
Doubletaptap
New member
Originally posted by Oddjob: If you want to investigate terrorists,suggest you start with the U.S. government,the A.T.F. and the F.B.I.,the real terrorists.Stop buying in to these false flag operations being conducted by the above along with their fellow criminals,the British government.
+1 OddJob!!!!! and CIA,SS and more!!
+1 OddJob!!!!! and CIA,SS and more!!
I must say...
Odd-Job, I couldn't agree with you more.
Doubletaptap though your labeling may be shallow, at least you're not blinded by prejudice and are learning. It is good to learn of other people and their culture. I would have to say though that any time a new group of immigrants comes to this country they are subject to prejudice when they arrive here look at blacks, the Irish, the Italians, the Polish, the Chinese and Japanese, etc. currently it's the Middle Eastern and South Asians that are catching it, regardless of if they're Muslim or not, but things are changing progressively. Muslims are also moving beyond the convenience store business, many send their kids through college and work their butt off doing it even if they are poor. Muslims are not only working for computer companies here, a good portion now study medicine and are doctors, surgeons, etc. cosidering how much they get paid and working in a prestegious position I don't think they'd really have any desire to commit terrorism. As for why some of them may not speak to you, it's probably because of the fear of persecution from someone who may see them as an outsider.
Epyon
Odd-Job, I couldn't agree with you more.
Doubletaptap though your labeling may be shallow, at least you're not blinded by prejudice and are learning. It is good to learn of other people and their culture. I would have to say though that any time a new group of immigrants comes to this country they are subject to prejudice when they arrive here look at blacks, the Irish, the Italians, the Polish, the Chinese and Japanese, etc. currently it's the Middle Eastern and South Asians that are catching it, regardless of if they're Muslim or not, but things are changing progressively. Muslims are also moving beyond the convenience store business, many send their kids through college and work their butt off doing it even if they are poor. Muslims are not only working for computer companies here, a good portion now study medicine and are doctors, surgeons, etc. cosidering how much they get paid and working in a prestegious position I don't think they'd really have any desire to commit terrorism. As for why some of them may not speak to you, it's probably because of the fear of persecution from someone who may see them as an outsider.
Epyon
azurefly said:So what, pray tell, alternatives to going whole-hog against our enemies with little regard for what innocents they HIDE BEHIND LIKE COWARDS are you offering?
Seems to me -- nothing as yet.
But you're sure quick to condemn others' possible solutions.
Nice try. But you do realize I am not required to put forth an alternative solution before I can identify your "kill'em all" approach as being ill-bred. However, requiring me to do so is an easy way for you to refrain from defending your position.
When illegal aliens were the topic of the day here on TFL, the mods had a hard time quieting some truly ignorant commentary. Certain members were becoming quite comfortable insulting the entire Hispanic population instead of focusing on the perpetrators: illegal aliens.
I see the same exact problem with your “solution” and opinion that condemns the fate of an entire religion, instead of addressing those who wish to do us harm: the terrorists.
What I do not see are mods stepping in to stop the patent ignorance. Maybe I should take that as an indicator that I'm way off base. Naa, I don't think so.
the whole issue is about power and desperation.these people that are doing these things are in fact hiding behind the regions religion and using it to further their agenda.they are using the region much the same way as adolf hitler used the germans to fuel the whole nazi movement which in fact did spread far and wide.take a closer look at it,how it began and the nazi solution to the jewish problem and the similiarities are just too wierd..the difference being the method of carrying it out,the cultures and the regions.
I wonder if osama is finally caught and put away for good or somehow manages to just fall off the face of the earth, that it will all stop or will it change its face and move on to somewhere else as it has done in the past?
I wonder if osama is finally caught and put away for good or somehow manages to just fall off the face of the earth, that it will all stop or will it change its face and move on to somewhere else as it has done in the past?
why they hate us
"They hate us because we aid Israel, not because we have barbecues on the Fourth of July and have 'freedom'*. "
***You got that right! And what our government has done in Iraq isn't helping matters. We could put in double the troops and it would still be a disaster for both us and the Iraqi people. And all this because of some neo-con pie in the sky idea to "democritize the Middle East" and make it suitable for US business interests and strategic military bases to protect our access to oil. And also to make Israel safer, of course. I assume Iran is next, since Iraq worked out so well.
"They hate us because we aid Israel, not because we have barbecues on the Fourth of July and have 'freedom'*. "
***You got that right! And what our government has done in Iraq isn't helping matters. We could put in double the troops and it would still be a disaster for both us and the Iraqi people. And all this because of some neo-con pie in the sky idea to "democritize the Middle East" and make it suitable for US business interests and strategic military bases to protect our access to oil. And also to make Israel safer, of course. I assume Iran is next, since Iraq worked out so well.
Doubletaptap
New member
I think there will always be some crazies out there. Take care of one problem and somebody else will start another.
As far as my neighbors I find some do not speak to me because they do not really know our language. And yes,a majority of the doctors and surgeons in this area are from Pakistan or an arab country. And they're good at what they do. I am not labeling them.
They all seem to be peace loving,family oriented people and it's hard to see why so many folks want to believe they're all devious terrorists. Again I think that's fueled by the news broadcasters.
Yes,generalization is a huge problem with people. Here in Tx. we see a major part of the illegal alien problem and most anyone you speak to will always want to "send the Mexicans back where they came from". They don't seem to understand that just because a person is a Mexican or Cubam or Puerto Rican etc. decent,he's didn't cross over illegally.
This could go on and on,I think people ought to take the time to stop and find out facts before they blurt out remarks about the Mexicans,African Americans,terrorists from Islam and others. No wonder there's so much hate.
Again,fueled by the news media. Why can't they report good news instead of just death and destruction? Cause there's no money in it, and they lose viewers(ratings). People want to see blood and guts. Just look at what happens when there's a wreck on the freeway,rubberneckers clog up traffic to see what they can see.
It's a cruel world.
As far as my neighbors I find some do not speak to me because they do not really know our language. And yes,a majority of the doctors and surgeons in this area are from Pakistan or an arab country. And they're good at what they do. I am not labeling them.
They all seem to be peace loving,family oriented people and it's hard to see why so many folks want to believe they're all devious terrorists. Again I think that's fueled by the news broadcasters.
Yes,generalization is a huge problem with people. Here in Tx. we see a major part of the illegal alien problem and most anyone you speak to will always want to "send the Mexicans back where they came from". They don't seem to understand that just because a person is a Mexican or Cubam or Puerto Rican etc. decent,he's didn't cross over illegally.
This could go on and on,I think people ought to take the time to stop and find out facts before they blurt out remarks about the Mexicans,African Americans,terrorists from Islam and others. No wonder there's so much hate.
Again,fueled by the news media. Why can't they report good news instead of just death and destruction? Cause there's no money in it, and they lose viewers(ratings). People want to see blood and guts. Just look at what happens when there's a wreck on the freeway,rubberneckers clog up traffic to see what they can see.
It's a cruel world.
Indeed Doubletaptap...
Couldn't agree any less than 100%. I would say that in my 20 odd years in this country; racism and discrimination seems to be going down and getting better than how it used to be, however I will see moments where someone will just blurt out something so abrassive about other people's ethnicity or religion that it makes my blood boil. Many of the people that do bash Muslims have never actually been to a mosque, talked to many Muslims, or even read the Koran to see what it's about before giving a fair conclusive opinion.
pitz96, I've been saying this for quite some time before Bush ever came into office and that is, pull out of the Middle East and start making better alternative fuels actively in order to stop dependency on an unstable region of the world. What's the point of fighting over a non-renewable resource that's going to run dry soon anyway? You're better off using that time, money, and energy in doing progressing the methods of alternate energy.
Epyon
Couldn't agree any less than 100%. I would say that in my 20 odd years in this country; racism and discrimination seems to be going down and getting better than how it used to be, however I will see moments where someone will just blurt out something so abrassive about other people's ethnicity or religion that it makes my blood boil. Many of the people that do bash Muslims have never actually been to a mosque, talked to many Muslims, or even read the Koran to see what it's about before giving a fair conclusive opinion.
pitz96, I've been saying this for quite some time before Bush ever came into office and that is, pull out of the Middle East and start making better alternative fuels actively in order to stop dependency on an unstable region of the world. What's the point of fighting over a non-renewable resource that's going to run dry soon anyway? You're better off using that time, money, and energy in doing progressing the methods of alternate energy.
Epyon
Doubletaptap
New member
Epyon, I feel your pain. I still find that here in Tx.(I'm only speaking of people I have had access to be around or listen to) racism is just as strong as ever. They just don't publicize it anymore because it's not PC. But getting in everyday conversations and even out shopping or in a club you still hear the N word or wetbacks and all the other slang phrases of racism.
My neighbor is a good guy, I even took him fishing with me but he didn't have much fun because he never did it before. He's from Pakistan and wears a turban sometimes. You should see the evil looks he gets from "whitey". My other neighbor says he's a "raghead" and possibly a terrorist.I consider that neighbor a "stupid redneck" a**hole" so even I'm guilty!
I think my neighbor looks exactly like the Majarishi Mahesh Yoga(Spelling) and he's a cool old dude. And has inspired me in ways of thinking and reasoning.
The problem is.
"Whitey" labels instantly by looks. If you're black you're a N.
If you're brown and speak spanish you're a W/back
If you are anything but white and speak english you're a "durn foreigner".
A lot of it is taught in the home from elders.
I don't see why we don't give everyone a chance to either be a friend or inspiration,or both before we start calling them names, or classifying them.
As for this terrorist stuff,my feeling it isn't all one nation,one people. It's many people who are fed up with us sticking our nose in their affairs.The news media just make it worse by harping on one issue instead of all issues involved.
We are a proud country. We were a strong country until cash took over instead of humanity.
I'm proud to be a American from the State of New York. Living in the State of Texas even I have been hoo hawed for being a "Yankee".
I guess it's the American way to be a name caller.
I apologise to all for the usage of racist words in my posts. They are only there to get a point across and not intended to be aimed at anyone or any culture.Why can't we all just get along?
George
My neighbor is a good guy, I even took him fishing with me but he didn't have much fun because he never did it before. He's from Pakistan and wears a turban sometimes. You should see the evil looks he gets from "whitey". My other neighbor says he's a "raghead" and possibly a terrorist.I consider that neighbor a "stupid redneck" a**hole" so even I'm guilty!
I think my neighbor looks exactly like the Majarishi Mahesh Yoga(Spelling) and he's a cool old dude. And has inspired me in ways of thinking and reasoning.
The problem is.
"Whitey" labels instantly by looks. If you're black you're a N.
If you're brown and speak spanish you're a W/back
If you are anything but white and speak english you're a "durn foreigner".
A lot of it is taught in the home from elders.
I don't see why we don't give everyone a chance to either be a friend or inspiration,or both before we start calling them names, or classifying them.
As for this terrorist stuff,my feeling it isn't all one nation,one people. It's many people who are fed up with us sticking our nose in their affairs.The news media just make it worse by harping on one issue instead of all issues involved.
We are a proud country. We were a strong country until cash took over instead of humanity.
I'm proud to be a American from the State of New York. Living in the State of Texas even I have been hoo hawed for being a "Yankee".
I guess it's the American way to be a name caller.
I apologise to all for the usage of racist words in my posts. They are only there to get a point across and not intended to be aimed at anyone or any culture.Why can't we all just get along?
George
OH! NOW I get it!!
When life doesn't go your way, take it out on innocent men, women and children by blowing them to bits!!
I am SOOOOOO SICK of this "victimization" rational!!
These people are animals!!
No caring, humane individual would perpetrate such horrific crimes on innocents!
You've heard it before..."Not ALL Moslems are terrorists, but all terrorists have been Moslem".
And don't bring up Timothy McVie!
He never said he did what he did for any religious reason, as opposed to Moslem extremists that hold up the Koran as proof that their actions are legitimate.
Maybe I've missed them, but when and where have the Moslem leaders in this country, and around the world, collectively DENOUNCED, in no uncertain terms, how despicable the acts of terrorism are?
Where is the upswell of Moslem anger towards the terrorists that have hijacked their religion and caused the term "Moslem" to become synonymous with 'terrorist" in many people's minds?
Have I just been working so much that I've missed them?
EPYON and Dbltap,
perhaps you guys can tell me where Moslems are actively banding together to fight the extremists, or where is the Moslem organization we can donate to that is ACTIVELY going after, and/or in SOME way battling, this terrorism.
It's being done in Iraq, but only with OUR help.
Are the Moslem newspapers condemning what's going on?
Is there condemnation and anger towards the terrorists being expressed by the local mosque leaders?
Any pot-luck Moslem picnics or dinners to raise money to fight terrorism.
I don't see or hear ANYTHING from the Moslem community in this regard.
Put a Moslem in a bad light on a TV show (24hrs), and the Moslem Council on American Relations, or whatever it's called, is in the news THE NEXT DAY complaining about the horrendous affront to their character and religion.
Where are the Moslem anti-terrorist demonstrations at the UN, or in the Moslem communities around the country/world?
I"M SERIOUS MAN!
If there is a grassroots anti-terrorist movement, ORGANIZED BY MOSLEMS TO DENOUNCE AND FIGHT TERRORISM, WHERE IS IT?????
And until I see it, I'll be hard put to have any respect for them as a group.
And please, leave that pathetic "I'm poor and disenfranchised so I'm gonna blowup, behead and torture as many people as I can" mentalty for some looney left, conspiracy theory losers that might actually believe it!