Tell me about .35 Remington

It is a good deer round, but has a reputation as "limited range" (say 150 yards) round.

In a Handi rifle, a TC Encore rifle, or even a contender rifle, the 357 Max can easily be loaded to higher speeds than 35 Remington factory ammo.

For both guns, the range limitation is based on the bullets.

With a pointed plastic tip 180, both the max and the 35 Remington can still be in the 1500 - 1600 fps range at 200 yards.

For comparison, this close to what a typical 357 magnum revolver does at the muzzle with a 158.

Newer bullet designs are out there that that can expand reliably at 1500 fps and yet can hold together and punch through a heavy bone.
 
"much preferred"......hold on now,and don't forget the semi

I don't have a source for this (yet) but the abundance of 30-30 lever rifles likely had much to do with cost. The levers were "much preferred" because (I suspect) they were cheaper than Remington's competing pump AND SEMI AUTO rifles (the models 8 and 81). I cannot say what a M94/336 cost in, say 1920, but I am near certain it would be far less than the complex to manufacture Rem pumps and auto rifles. Even in my lifetime, until the advent of the price point poly bolt rifle, a Marlin 336 was a good bit cheaper than a first rate bolt rifle like the Model 70 or 700, only the Savage 110, and the Rem 788 could compete with the price of a lever carbine . Thirty-thirty's were also a great deal cheaper to shoot than '06, .270. At the public range near my home, prior deer season, spent 30-30 brass was very common, until price point bolt rifles hit the scene. I'd bet 90% of that was shot in scoped Marlin rifles.

But the old pumps indeed had a following. In PA, where SA centerfires were prohibited for deer/bear hunting ( and still are I believe) those wanting the fastest repeat shot chose the Remington pumps, in .35 Rem usually. There were thousands of hunters carrying the "candy cane" magazined Remington pumps , the rifles passed down from one generation to the next. The Rem 14/141 were not uncommon in the PA woods into the mid 70's at least, even though the design was superceded by the Rem Pump "7 series". Remington even made special runs of the 7-series pumps in .35 Rem for Grice's Gun Shop in PA, I hear they sold like hotcakes.

If you peruse any old meatpole photos from back in the day, it is not hard to find near entire camps armed with the old Remington pumps. The same can be said of lever rifles too, of course. To my knowledge, only Marlin made a contemporary lever rifle in .35 Rem. Savage made a few pumps in .35, the model 170, but they are scarce. I'm thinking the Savage pump was made thru the mid 70's, but I have never seen one in .35, though I know it was available.

The .35 had a bit of a reputation as a kicker. Many of the old pump rifles will be found with recoil pads installed afterwards, often poorly unfortunately. Launching a 200 gr slug at a solid 2000 fps plus from the 22" barrels of the pump rifles (remember, the lever carbines were typically 20") they killed with authority. The 30-30 and being the equal of the .35 is still debated, but there is no question in my mind the .35 hits harder, no matter how hard that might be to measure, and the bigger hole lets out more blood and air. That was important in the crowded deer woods of PA.
 
Alright, so it seems .35 Remington is a cartridge that has fallen out of favor over time, so it's nothing worth going out of my way to get into. Even if .357 Maximum is a little weaker than .35 Rem, it's still capable of being more versatile for me in shooting .38 and .357 Mag.

I'll keep the brass since it seems uncommon. Never know what you might find at a place for a sub $200 price tag.
 
cost

For grins I searched some old sale ads, the closest I could get for apples to apples was a 1948 Win ad for a M94-.30-30, and a 1951 Rem ad for a Model 141 pump.......the ads 3 years apart.

A M94/.30 was advertised at $56.50 in 1948. A 141 Rem pump in 1951 was 106.00, I think. The ad was blurred, but definitely 3 figures, over $100 bucks for sure. There is a year difference in price, but I doubt the M94 doubled in price in 3 yrs.

So if you were the run of the mill, eastern deer hunter, with short season, limited harvest, and hunted 6-7 days of a 2-3 week season, the M94 was an affordable option based on cost.
 
"The cartridge was designed to be used in the compact pump action 14 and 141 rifles along with several other cartridges in the same power class as 30-30."

The .35 Remington, and the other three Remington rimless cartridges, were not designed to be used in pump action rifles.

They were designed for, and introduced with, the John Browning designed Model 8 semi-automatic rifle, which was introduced a number of years before the Pedersen-designed pump actions were brought to market.
 
"The cartridge was designed to be used in the compact pump action 14 and 141 rifles along with several other cartridges in the same power class as 30-30."
Click to expand...

Mike is correct (as usual) this statement is "cart before the horse". The Remington family of rounds (.25,.30, .32, and .35) were introduced before the Remington pump (model 14) which was designed to be able to use the rounds with its unique "spiral" tube magazine. The 141 was a refinement of the 14.

So, in this case, the pump rifle(s) were designed to use the ammo, rather than the ammo being designed to be used in that rifle.
With a pointed plastic tip 180, both the max and the 35 Remington can still be in the 1500 - 1600 fps range at 200 yards.

For comparison, this close to what a typical 357 magnum revolver does at the muzzle with a 158.
Click to expand...

I think the numbers are overly optimistic for the Maximum and under rating the .35 Rem. And, please, do tell us what TYPICAL .357 revolver gets over 1500fps MV with a 158gr, today.??

You can do it with heavy loads out of an 8" N-frame or similar revolver, but they aren't the typical .357s today...
 
44 AMP said:
I think the numbers are overly optimistic for the Maximum and under rating the .35 Rem. And, please, do tell us what TYPICAL .357 revolver gets over 1500fps MV with a 158gr, today.??

You can do it with heavy loads out of an 8" N-frame or similar revolver, but they aren't the typical .357s today...
Click to expand...
.357 Mag has a wide variety of loadings, from .38 +P+ levels to Buffalo Bore, which while premium .357 ammo, its price is in the same ballpark as .35 Remington factory ammo. Not as powerful, but powerful enough for most uses.

It's .357 Maximum where I see the glaring weakness for .35 Rem. I just saw over the weekend a video of handloads being shot from a 24 inch T/C Encore barrel with 180 grain bullets averaging 1950 fps, likely 2000 fps with another grain of powder. While not a 200 grain bullet like we see in .35 Remington, I'm not sure when an extra 20 grains of lead is needed for the cost and rarity of the brass.
 
I don't know that I'd call the brass rare. It's not going to fill up an 8 foot section of shelves at the store, but factory 35 Remington ammunition can be found, at least where I live this is the case. Hornady LeverEvolution and Remington Corelokt are usually what I see. I have found some Winchester before as well.
 
.357 Mag has a wide variety of loadings, from .38 +P+ levels to Buffalo Bore, which while premium .357 ammo....
Click to expand...

On the other hand, an apples-to-apples comparison of premium ammo:

BuffaloBore Ammo
.357 Magnum - 180 @ 1400 fps/785 fpe
.35 Remington - 220 @ 2200 fps/2365 fpe.

I wouldn’t shoot elk, bear or moose with the little magnum, but wouldn’t hesitate with the .35 rimless load above. I really don’t care what the OP does with his cases, but some other readers might be......mislead.


.
 
I have wanted a 35 Remington rifle for a long time. A little over a year ago I bought one off GB for around $400 IIRC. I also bought dies, brass and bullets. My loads should be getting between 2100-2200fps with a 200gr bullet. I haven't killed anything with it but its a lot of fun to shoot and has a step up in recoil over the 30-30. There is a fellow on the cast bullet forum that makes brass from 308 brass that is a little thicker and stronger. I need to order a 100 pieces.

Go here to the Marlin Owners forum and you can read to your hearts content about the 35 remington. There is a lotta love for this round and the Marlin rifle that shoots it. Of course you have the option of shooting 357 pistol bullets from the rifle. Even low power lead bullets for cheap practice and smaller game.

https://www.marlinowners.com/forum/35-remington/
 
35 vs 30-30....Dad and I went at it for years. He loved his 30-30 and I loved the 35. As for penetration, I shot deer, and a lot of them, and every 200 grainer penetrated through all of them. As for useful range, I always considered it a 150 yard gun, though I did reach out to 260 on one spike.

I don’t know which one is really better, but I remain a 35 fan.
 
I saw a beauty marlin in this a few years back at an LGS--I hemmed and hawed about it for a while--and then when I finally made my mind up and went back it was gone. A mid-power 358 sounds great to me, perfect for a lever gun. I'm having lots of fun with my new Henry 45 70--but after a while your teeth start to hurt from rattling about in your head.:D
 
My first deer rifle in early 60s was a Rem 8 in 35Rem. I only went 100lbs and I moved me around a good bit. Got my first deer with it. Then busted my but to get a 742 in 3006 like
the older guys had. Short honeymoon with it, worst rifle I ever owned. By the time I was 16 I was in 35 fever. I had a 8-81-14-141 and 336. In the woods they put the hammer on deer.
I have thinned them down a little, got rid of Marlin, still have the others. My favorite is 141.
I have shot a truck load of deer with about every caliber you can think of. Over half were shot with 35Rem. Only problem I ever had with the 35 was shooting through a buck and hit a doe in the guts. Out of state with no doe permit, lucky to find a local to tag it. It's ideal game rifle when you are hunting woods where shoots over 100yds are rare. The Marlin was
the only one I scope, the others had tangs and reciever sights. Always used 200RN.
 
bucket .35

My first deer rifle was a Rem 14 in .30 Rem, but I always wanted a .35. A vintage pump would be nice and I wouldn't pass on a 14/141 in .35 at the right price.

But an attractive option was the half magazined, 24" barrel Marlin 336A. I talked myself into getting one shortly after we moved into our home, a good 25 yrs ago. The price was right, even with years of house payments ahead. When I went back, it was gone
 
I’m into lever guns and own a 336CS in .35 Remington. I also have a Marlin 336 in 30-30 but I prefer the .35. I picked the .35 up several years back at an estate sale, made in 1950’s and had an old Weaver x4 power scope on top. Minor adjustments and it was back in the small circle. I have a hog hunt in a few weeks and I’m going to leave the autos home and let my lever guns out to play. I figure the old .35 will do just fine for me.
 
It's really a very simple set of circumstances. The most important thing to remember is that the .358 bore has never been a popular item, never in the history of cartridge development. Only a few numbers were actually designed, very few reached any great popularity, and generally speaking, they are all now defunct or running at very low production.

The .35 remington was created in the early 1900s, as the first serious .358 rifle caliber. Since it was created by Remington and released along with rifles to use it, it obviously created its own market. People liked it for what it was, a hard hitting medium bored and heavy bullet. We were still fixated on the old black powder numbers such as the .45-70, and the .308 caliber had not yet won the hearts of american shooters.

Soon we had the .35 whelen. It was a much stronger round, harder to love, and even more problematic, a custom number for decades. When we came out with a norma magnum, well, there wasn't much of a need for it. We had .338 and 458 magnums, and the majority of americans would keep these american numbers in their minds rather than a european caliber like the norma. The remington magnum was a stinker. The .358 winchester was far too late to the game, and not necessarily an improvement over any of the others. The hold that the .35 remington had on its market was safe.

It's a simple fact that the .35 remington in a lever, pump, or semiauto is a wonderful combination for deer or elk, or other similar game, in reasonable ranges. 200 grains and what was it, 2,200 or so? A big hole. You have huge regions of america that this combination excels at.

So we have three combined things that have put this century old round in a stil viable position.

It was designed for a very popular rifle action and it has never gone out of usefulness.

It works extremely well with its intended use within the limits that are obvious.

The only competing rounds that were created were too specialized, and didn't fulfill the needs that a .35 remington fulfilled so well.

The .357 maximum is a fluke. If it had been create in the period that the .35 remington had been made, it wouldn't be around. Only in these affluent days would a gun so specialized be created. There was no handgun hunting back then, and the lever or pump rifle were already well served.
 
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