Teetering Tensions on the Mexico Border

What's your address KS ? We got a bunch coming across tomorrow .You need not meet them at the door . They will be in your living room when you wake up .
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That is also my thought on open border types open your home to all the needy and see how long your property will be there.

At one time ranchers would leave food and water for border crossers
20-30 years ago, most would take the above and cut wood, do minor repairs,
etc, no longer folks different world now they take and break.
 
Excuse me, I lack the extensive vocabulary to put all this politely. Those who believe that this country "needs" the present waves of illegal aliens and the solution is "guest worker" amnesty programs.....you have no idea...you have literally got your head up your ass... That or you're of the mindset that gives you a hard-on to "help" the poor, which I think has something to do with a superiority complex of some type..meaning it's a power trip of some kind. Who would do the work???...Hey, I know plenty of lawncare guys who would make alot more money off the lazy, well-off slobs who are used to paying 20 bucks a cut...only the top rich guys are safe...everyone else pays for it....I don't want my kids being "required" to speak spanish...i don't want my kids losing out to jobs, i.e. teaching, because they don't speak spanish to accommodate the illegals, I don't want my kid to be in an overcrowded class because of illegals....There is nothing wrong with speaking a language other than English, I speak spanish, french, and some pretty good german..but I'll be damned, and I guess we all will be, IF YOU ARE EXPECTED OR PENALIZED OR OTHERWISE MADE TO FEEL "BAD" ABOUT SPEAKING ENGLISH IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND EXPECTING THE SAME FROM ANYONE YOU CONVERSE WITH WHILE STANDING ON THE SOVEREIGN TERRITORY OF SAID COUNTRY..if you love some other country....please leave....guarantee you that you will wear out your welcome too.
 
para, they are already here. This is where the work is. :) Of course there are problems with immigration but not to the extent that the politicians whoring for votes say. A guest worker program would allow this country to have the workers we need and allow the immigrants a legal way to come into this country and would help property owners in the border areas as fewer would be trespassing on their land.

Every immigration wave--the Irish, the Italians, the Chinese, etc.--we have had the "alien hordes" hysteria. It's rubbish then, it's rubbish now. Legalize the illegal immigration and solve the problem.

Derius, no one spoke in favor of illegal immigration, merely that the problems of illegal immigration are overblown hype driven by those seeking political advantage. If we change the immigration law, we solve the problem.

Americans do not want to work as they have become fat and entitled. Mexicans do not have such problems that's why they are needed--to work.

MrBill, who said anything about your children being required to speak Spanish? Were children required to speak Gaelic, German, Norwegian, Italian, or Chinese because of past immigration? We've had the hysterical fears over jobs and schools during other immigration waves and we survived and prospered. We will survive and prosper during this wave. :)
 
Brown v. Board of Education wasn't even about Spanish . It was a black guy that was upset that his childs classes were heavily in Chinese . This is a runaway PC freight train . I spoke German as a child and learned first hand about the NYC Bi-Lingual program . You sat in the back of the class "Bi" yourself until you learned the "Lingual". By the third grade I was totally up to speed . Immersion works . The biggest problem here in CA is that the grandma that is here and getting SS paynebts having NEVER contributed to the system will not learn English . The kids that she babysits grow up speaking spanish and really don't get a good foundation in the LANGUAGE OF THIS COUNTRY !!!Combine the poor command of the language with the pitiful education system here and you go from kids that do not learn to adults that cannot function at full potential . But of course the Libs have a cure . As usual it's "When all else fails , lower your standards".
 
KS,
Fat and entitled? Don't want to work? Granted I need to work on my midsection a little, but...fat and entitled? I just do not get the argument that we need illegals to do all the work. Maybe I'm hanging out with the wrong crowd. You make it seem like there is a country of white fat people sitting around dangling grapes into each other's mouths, while all the trash piles up outside the gazebo.
Yes, we have always had immigration; we continue to have legal immigration. Germans, Irish, Mexican, etc. The comparision between that and the hordes pouring in ILLEGALLY is not comparing apples to apples.
While I don't know of any schools that are requiring children to learn fluent spanish, every school that I know of does teach youngsters some basic spanish. Numbers, greetings, phrases, etc. I do not recall the youngsters ever being taught German or Italian or Russian in the same way. Is it a bad thing that they are being taught some Spanish? I personally could care less; learning a second language is good for the brain, but you can't discount Mr. Bill's concern that the second language presented to elementary students is almost exclusively Spanish, and the fear that eventually it will be a requirement. Recently a friend of mine was attempting to acquire a federal job in North Carolina and was told that it was required she be fluent in another language, preferably Spanish.
But all of this is a mute point. We are not talking about stopping Mexicans from entering our country anymore than we are talking about stopping Swedes or Ruskies or South Africans from entering. We are talking about ILLEGAL immigration. Terrorism across our borders. MS13. That sort of rubbish.
Amnesty to those already here? Secure the border first and stop the flood. Then some of us might be more willing to consider it for those that are already here. But to offer it, and continue to do nothing about the open border is compounding the problem, not solving it.
You see politicians stirring up the issue; all I see is politicians turning a blind eye. Maybe we're communicating on a TFL site located somewhere between two parallel universes. :)
 
Every immigration wave--the Irish, the Italians, the Chinese, etc.--we have had the "alien hordes" hysteria. It's rubbish then, it's rubbish now. Legalize the illegal immigration and solve the problem.
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Unlock your home advertise you will feed and provide for all that come,
please do and I will be there to see how long you survive. :barf:
 
President Bush has promised action on immigration this year. He wants to give illegals a new legal status, that of guest workers. He said, "We want our Border Patrol agents chasing crooks and thieves and drug-runners and terrorists, not good-hearted people who are coming here to work."
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Right, Comrade Bush ... IF the Border Patrol is unable to stop, detain, process and deport these hordes strolling across the border - just what chance have they of actually catching people among them who are "crooks, thieves, drug-runners and terrorists"?

Easy answer, and Comrade Bush knows it very well. None. Zero.

What Comrade Bush is talking about is open borders. Where everyone within the United States must have all their papers in order, and be subject to an ever increasing state of controls. Except the guest workers, who will have "papers" based on a corrupted database and the word of corrupt officials as to their backgrounds and true identities. Data from all over the third world, including Mexico, and no way to verify it.

Very clever; a never ending safe conduit for terror cells and individuals - and a great way to ensure the "war" goes on as long as necessary, or can be turned up a notch when desired.

More controlled conflict for controlled change.

Welcome to the new Pan Americas.
 
Charley, sorry, no I was talking about the "alien hordes" of illegal immigration that we had in past immigration waves. Remember the quotas established for the Chinese or Southern Europeans? The quotas were routinely violated. The "paper sons"? Plenty of illegal immigration then as now. Same political rhetoric about protecting our culture from the Catholics or the Chinese.

It's not a moot point in that we survived the "alien hordes" and prospered. :)

People are not talking about stopping illegal immigration from all nations, just Mexico. No outrage over illegal immigration from Russia, Poland and Ireland. When the Irish received amnesty in '86 under Ronnie Raygun, there was no outrage. When discussing the coming amnesty, no one is outraged over amnesty to Irish, Polish, inter alia illegal immigrants. Why do you think that is? ;)

Nothing wrong with a second language. The language of instruction in much of my state was German until 1917. No one whimpered and wrung their hands over the use of German in schools until then. Why do you think that is? ;)

wingman, if the basis of your objection to immigration is the "welfare strain/drain", then why not turn off the welfare magnet as done in Arizona. Attacking the Welfare State is a worthy goal in my book. :D
 
People are not talking about stopping illegal immigration from all nations, just Mexico. No outrage over illegal immigration from Russia, Poland and Ireland.
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Because Russian, Polish, and Irish immigrants aren't making a slum out of my neighborhood at the moment. They're not driving drunk and wrecking their cars into other cars parked on the street (I was a witness to one incident, but I've seen the aftermath of similar wrecks). They don't dump the day's garbage out of their work trucks and into the street like the Hispanic "guest workers" (I've witnessed this and asked them to pick their trash up, it's even more frustrating when there's a trashcan mere feet away). I don't see Russian/Polish/Irish "johns" parking with their "rented ladies" in the parking spaces for my group of townhomes, but the Hispanic guys like to try that (our Cul de Sac is somewhat "sheltered" from casual view from the main street). It's mostly small stuff (except for the drunk driving and accidents), but they're doing their damn best to make my neighborhood look like a Mexican slum (been there, know the smell).

What makes it worse is that my neighborhood is actually pretty decent. This is spillover from the true slum up the street from us.

FWIW, I'm not a fan of any illegal immigrants be them Hispanic, Russian, or British. Send them all back.

Chris
 
wingman, if the basis of your objection to immigration is the "welfare strain/drain", then why not turn off the welfare magnet as done in Arizona. Attacking the Welfare State is a worthy goal in my book.
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10.4 we can agree on that 100%, I believe in controlled legal immigration........
 
mtnbkr, hey, your location says Virginia but you are describing "Hell's Kitchen" in New York City with all those Irish immigrants or "Little Ukraine" with all those Ukranian immigrants in Chicago. So, where are you then?
 
Manassas, voted the most Hispanic friendly community (assuming in Virginia).

If it were Irish (illegal) Immigrants or Russian (illegal) Immigrants, I'd advocate tossing them out too.

Chris
 
According to a very recent article in the Washington Times, the Feds apprehended over 1,000,000 illegal aliens in 2004. And tons of criminals and drugs. The combined Border Patrol, INS, Customs, etc., now numbers 42,000 agents. They are much better organized now.

A work permit program Bush is talking about would be a huge beaurcracy and would cost a fortune and would not work without draconian measures against employers, etc. The problem is too big for half-way measures.

You have to face it too. We are not getting the cream-of-crop Mexicans. Those Mexicans stay home. Recent articles in the Washington Times tells of Indian villages in the mountains of Mexico with practically no young adult males. They are all in "el Norte".
 
According to a very recent article in the Washington Times, the Feds apprehended over 1,000,000 illegal aliens in 2004
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But they didn't say how many were deported - as opposed to just "turned loose". ;)
 
The biggest immigration magnet currently is the welfare state combined with our standard of living, but people will still want to sneak into the country and work here even if there was no welfare because of our standard of living. In fact if there was no welfare our standard of living would increase creating more incentive. Though I agree with them on 98% of the issues, that's where I believe the Libertarians are wrong in their thinking.

No, I don't believe that a hardcore stance on the Mexican border would stop terrorists from getting in, it would stop a great deal of potential terrorists though, but that's not the point of the arguement.
 
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No effective immigration policy including work permits will work without secure borders. Period.

If you are bleeding to death, the first thing you do is stop the bleeding.
 
I have a serious question

Just how do you propose getting rid of 10 million illegal aliens? We all know there are more than that, probably about 15 million, but I’ll be generous and say that 3-5 million illegals would voluntarily return to their own country as a result of stepped up interior immigration enforcement (as happened during Operation Wetback) and that no more would enter illegally.

Do the math, this isn’t a simple problem and you can’t just say “round ‘em up”.

If you sent more than 5 thousand back every single day it would still take 5 years to remove all of them. I’ll tell you here and now that there is no way that 5 thousand people can be deported every single day. It isn’t even feasible to suggest that 5 thousand illegal immigrants could be arrested every day for 5 years. After the initial of arrests were made, you’d be lucky if you could find 5 thousand illegals per day. The next problem is detaining those arrested. The Border Patrol arrested approximately 1.5 million illegals in 2004 and still ran out of detention space. While more detention facilities are being built up and down the border, where in the world do you suggest an additional 2 million people be kept while waiting for removal to their home country? Next issue; Supposing an ICE investigator was able to prepare the case against one illegal per day, that would require more than 5 thousand ICE investigators just to deal with this one issue. Of course once the case was prepared there would have to be a trial. Even if you could handle some illegals in a “mass trial” sort of scenario, many would require their own trial.


I’ve just barely scratched the surface of the issue here and hopefully you can see that this is a formidable problem. I’m certainly not suggesting that it is an impossible one, merely a difficult one, and one which requires some creative thinking. I’d really like to hear how y’all think this could be handled because frankly, creating something that causes 10 million people to voluntarily come forward and register themselves and then voluntarily leave the country in order to obtain withheld income seems about the best solution I’ve heard of. Oh, in case you couldn’t tell, that’s exactly what Bush’s proposal does.
 
There are about 600,000 State and Local police. Perhaps some kind of initiative to get them involved in immigration control might help out. And they do have there own detention facilities.
 
Calling an illegal alien an undocumented immigrant is like calling a burglar an uninvited house guest. Illegal aliens are an exploited underclass. They are hired by dubious employers who are looking to hire cheap labor because they are unwilling to pay americans a living wage.

Illegal immigration has a huge negative impact upon America and contributes significantly to school overcrowding, health care crisis, highway congestion, wage depression, unemployment of citizens, and environmental degradation.

Illegal aliens are law breakers who do not deserve jobs, amnesty, educational subsidies, driver's licenses, and other benefits at the expense of U.S. taxpayers. Illegal aliens first should be encouraged to Go Home voluntarily and then humanely deported as the law requires, and if they continue to return, be delt with accordingly as hostile invaders.

I have seen what illegals do at the border. It is CRIMINAL.

If it is not brought under control DAMN soon, by 2050, our population will be close to DOUBLE what it is now. We simply can't support that many people.

Apologists for illegal immigration like to paint it as a victimless crime. But in fact, illegal immigration causes substantial harm to American citizens and legal immigrants, particularly those in the most vulnerable sectors of our population--the poor, minorities, and children.

Illegal immigration causes an enormous drain on public funds. The seminal study of the costs of immigration by the National Academy of Sciences found that the taxes paid by immigrants do not cover the cost of services received by them. We cannot provide high quality education, health care, and retirement security for our own people if we continue to bring in endless numbers of poor, unskilled immigrants.
 
There are about 600,000 State and Local police. Perhaps some kind of initiative to get them involved in immigration control might help out. And they do have there own detention facilities.
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Nope. There is not enough room to hold the 1.1 million that cross illegaly each year. Not to mention who is going to pay for holding them?

Not to mention the large cities have have declared themselves sanctuary cities and do not allow thier police to enforce border law OR report illegals who are arrested to the authorities to have them deported. LA is one of these renegade cities.
 
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