Ted Nugent

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The flipside is that I know guys who have flown Ted and his family around. By all accounts, he is a very polite and friendly person, whose son is well-mannered and courteous.

Bear in mind that there is showmanship on one level, and then there is how a person behaves when the crowds are not watching or the camera is not rolling.
 
44 AMP said:
Being extreme, and "in your face" may not be he best strategy, but it has been working for quite some time for the other side.

Personally, I find it rather refreshing. Calm, dispassionate logic in the court of public opinion is a losing tactic too often these days, even if it is the morally right choice. A degree of fighting fire with fire is needed, I think. It's certainly emotionally satisfying.

Ted's no saint. He doesn't represent me...
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This is where I land as well. Although I have heard his name before, I have only seen him in his recent appearance on the Pierce Morgan program (a venue in which he did well).

This fellow I barely know does not represent me, but that does not keep him from being an advocate. Part of being an advocate can involve addressing emotional components of an issue and addressing them in a way that involves showmanship.

Calm and dispassionate reasoning is very persuasive amongst some people. However, it is not the only means of persuasion, and if we are too insistent on advocacy measuring up to a standard that most will not find persuasive, we should not bother as a political matter. Winning public opinion involves a tolerance of co-belligerents with whom one may have differences.
 
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Regarding Nugent and poaching - you really need to read the accounts of what happened. It's not like Ted is out there at night picking off deer with a search light and a silenced rifle. That's real poaching. Nugent got caught on technical misdemeanor violations of hunting laws, and if he was Joe Buckwheat, it would amount to a bunch of nothing.

When I hear gun folks slamming our own based on Huffington Post type journalism, it makes me wonder....:rolleyes:
 
Originally Posted by 44 AMP
Being extreme, and "in your face" may not be he best strategy, but it has been working for quite some time for the other side.
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Who are we talking about? Sarah Brady? Barbara Streisand? I don't like either one. I don't like them as people and I don't like their politics. But I don't see their personal behavior as a problem.

But anyone who would wear urine soaked and feces caked clothes for days in a row? This isn't anybody we want speaking for us.

He's a deliberately abrasive individual who has a highly checkered past.

Someone posted that they saw the Nuge in a concert:

Ted bellowed out that he had a permit for the 1st Amendment "right here" and whipped out his middle finger for the audience.
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Seriously? Posters on this thread think that behavior is commendable? That's just low class. Period.
 
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It's not like Ted is out there at night picking off deer with a search light and a silenced rifle. That's real poaching
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No, poaching encompasses much more than what you're describing.

And, regardless, it's still the law.
 
I used to be a fan of his until recently . I loved his TV show. I even brought his book" kill it and grill it". I am a NRA member, hunter and shooter. I ignored when he was caught illegally hunting last year. But the comments he made after the George Zimmerman verdict was the final straw, how you feel about the case is a matter of personal opinion, but to say the racist things he commented about the black community and Martin's grieving parents was totally uncalled for. He should leave the political activist stuff alone. He also should step down from the NRA board.
 
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I've actually met Ted Nugent. I like that he speaks his mind and doesn't pussyfoot around an issue. You can be sure that he is telling you exactly what he thinks and doesn't really care if that offends you.
In this day and age, that is an admirable quality.

Take him for what he is, an entertainer. No different than the celebrities that disagree with us politically.
 
I feel like I finally need to chime in...

arch308 said:
I like Uncle Ted. I don't agree with all his methods but then I don't agree totally with anybody. I love his total absence of political correctness. He is truly committed to the defense of the second amendment and uses his venues to the best of his abilities. Yeah, he's sometimes a half bubble off plumb but he is on our side and does a lot of unpaid work for the cause.
We've all done things we aren't proud of and I won't hold 40 year old mistakes against him.
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Italics & color added by Bumblebug. Thank you arch308, I couldn't have said it better myself. I for one am sick of the political-correctness & find Ted refreshing and I hope all of us have a chance to be judged by who we have become in our senior life instead of who we were in our fledgling youth.

Rock-On Ted...
 
I've edited several posts. There will be no more name-calling or personal attacks against Mr. Nugent or anyone else. Failure to heed this warning will have consequences.
zukiphile said:
Calm and dispassionate reasoning is very persuasive amongst some people. However, it is not the only means of persuasion, and if we are too insistent on advocacy measuring up to a standard that most will not find persuasive, we should not bother as a political matter. Winning public opinion involves a tolerance of co-belligerents with whom one may have differences.
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I think Mr. Nugent does our cause more harm than good; he's preaching (if one can call it that :eek:) to the choir, and there's nothing in his presentation that is likely to change the mind of anyone who is on the fence about, much less opposed to, gun rights. Yes, his "performances" around gun rights are calculated to appeal to emotion -- but he appeals to the emotions of people who already support gun rights, and who like the idea of giving the finger (metaphorically or otherwise) to authority.
 
.....but he appeals to the emotions of people who already support gun rights, and who like the idea of giving the finger (metaphorically or otherwise) to authority
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This is true, but keeping our pro 2nd Amendment friends and gun owners excited about preserving their gun rights it is just as important as those people who reach out to non-gun people to hopefully recruit a few to our side every now and then. We can't just have one type of person who's only goal is to recruit non-gun folks to our side.

Ted Nugent isn't for everyone. He doesn't represent everyone, heck, he probably doesn't actually represent anyone. He is, and has always been, a loose cannon who happens to share a passionate interest in guns, shooting and hunting. I don't have to be like Ted, or act like him just to be glad we have him on our side. And, although I recognize that he is not the be-all-end-all spokesman for preserving our 2nd Amendment rights, I think he generally contributes positively and is a small but important piece in the Big Picture.

FWIW, I did a very quick count of favorable vs. unfavorable comments (trying not to double up where people posted more than once) concerning Ted Nugent, and the favorable comments are running just under 2 to 1 unfavorable. Like him or hate him, I feel Ted Nugent resonates with a large number of people who like shooting and support the 2nd Amendment. Do we really need to force everyone to like only intellectuals in suits and ties who speak softly and eloquently?
 
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Vanya said:
I think Mr. Nugent does our cause more harm than good; he's preaching (if one can call it that ) to the choir, and there's nothing in his presentation that is likely to change the mind of anyone who is on the fence about, much less opposed to, gun rights. Yes, his "performances" around gun rights are calculated to appeal to emotion -- but he appeals to the emotions of people who already support gun rights, and who like the idea of giving the finger (metaphorically or otherwise) to authority.
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Preliminarily, let's recognize that giving the metaphorical finger to authority is a significant element in American culture. Appealing to that culture can be part of effective advocacy.

In order for Mr. Nugent to do the cause of Second Amendment rights more harm than good, is performances would need to persuade people to restrict the scope of those rights. In the single example of his advocacy that I have seen, his interview by a nearly insufferable Pierce Morgan, he was relatively (i.e. relative to Morgan) calm and rational. I cannot assess performances I have not seen, but if those performances are calculated to appeal to the emotions of those who are support a wide scope for the right, then it seems likely that those performances would only offend those who seek to restrict the scope of the right.

Seen in that light, Mr. Nugent's persuasive power rests not in converting those of contrary opinion but in supporting or intensifying the sentiment of those with a similar opinion (and perhaps a contrary opinion as well).

If we were to clone Alan Gura 1000 times over and send them out to speak at 100,000 luncheons, addressing those who would fairly, reasonably and dispassionately assess the merits of his position, we would still lose the political issue. As important as that activity is, that is not how people ordinarily reach and support their conclusions.

To employ a different metaphor, if one engages in a street fight and chides a co-belligerent for his failure to adhere to Queensbury rules, there is an area of the engagement one leaves unaddressed.
 
You may be right, Zuke -- my concern is whether he does more harm than good, given that he feeds right into some really negative stereotypes about gun owners.

I like your idea of cloning Alan Gura, though... not so much for speaking as for all those court cases. :D
 
Unfortunately Alan Gura cloned 1000 times would have no effect ... unless he could get funding for his cases.
It costs a tremendous amount of money to pursue those cases.
And usually government agencies look closely at the cost to defend those cases, as opposed to settling or coming up with some accommodation.
Ted Nugent funds all his own activities (along with his sponsors, who, apparently like and approve of him).
And I suspect he funds some others as well. (He doesn't get free NRA dues, does he?)
So I liked that comment 'Rock on Ted'.
dc
 
...he feeds right into some really negative stereotypes about gun owners.
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No doubt.

A lot of those stereotypes are true, and some are so rarely true that they are effectively slanderous.

I come at this with the idea that trying to tamp down unfavorable personal presentations is a losing battle because we have no control over them, and that a description of a right also includes unseemly exercises of the right.

Is this the fellow who cut a tree down with a rifle? That, cowboy hats and dressing as he does (in my iffy memory, he was a thin fellow with bad teeth, a scraggley beard, wearing a commercial camo undershirt under a coat or open shirt*) are not anything I would do.

If you and I conclude that this man behaves foolishly, we should also be able to explain that while so much of what he does isn't to our taste, we don't impose our tastes, anxieties and preferences on others in the absence of an important purpose and legitimate authority.

That is one aspect of temperament that separates Vanya and zukiphile from Senator Feinstein. While the Senator is smart and has ample rational capacity, it is her intolerant temperament that makes her a greater net harm than Nugent.

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* I concede the possibility that I caught him on a good day, and still don't know all sorts of awful things about him.
 
Unfortunately, rational supporters of gun rights don't get as much air time as crazies. I was surprised the other day when CNN had a fairly neutral report on gun buying in Newton. The progun folks were normal.
 
Originally posted by Jo6pak:

Take him for what he is, an entertainer. No different than the celebrities that disagree with us politically.
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I have no respect for any entertainer that has been convicted of breaking multiple laws in two different states and scenarios. Makes me wonder how many times they didn't get caught. The warden that comes and speaks to our Hunter Safety Classes claims the average poacher probably gets caught once for every 10-15 violations. I also have no respect for celebrity hunters that take low percentage shots on game while being video taped for television, even when they claim they have "respect" for their quarry. Celebrity Draft dodgers......that's a whole nuther can of worms.
 
To those who demand we all walk the straight and narrow, I suggest you clear the area around your glass houses of any rocks and sticks.

Ted Nugent is who he is, and it is better for us that he is pro 2nd Amendment than anti-2nd amendment!
 
To those who demand we all walk the straight and narrow, I suggest you clear the area around your glass houses of any rocks and sticks.
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There's a difference between someone who has the occasional indiscretion and someone who claims to represent us while constantly doing very irresponsible things in a very public way.
 
I think he's made an outright fool of himself and he's not the kind of political pundit who can be taken seriously if you don't agree with his views.
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True. He is more out of control than some of the "activists" often derided on these boards.
 
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