Technical question about 9mm ammo fired out of a revolver

No I agree, I like speed too!
What I meant is that in looking at the speed results, one has to consider the bullet weight if it is being compared to another load.
in other words, 1000 fps on a 115 grain is not the same as 1000 fps on a 158 grain.

Like I said, NONE of his 9mm test with 147 grain achieved over 1000 fps threshold.
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OK then, so if we compare the heaviest 9mm loads vs. the heaviest .38spl+P loads, then we can agree they are very similar in velocity and performance. But once we get into the lighter loads, 9mm is better and those are what I intend to carry in my revolver.

Then there is 9mm NATO and 9mm+P, which should be superior to any .38spl+P load on paper but I don't know if those would be safe to carry in my Taurus 905. I will probably just stick with standard 9mm.
 
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OK then, so if we compare the heaviest 9mm loads vs. the heaviest .38spl+P loads, then we can agree they are very similar in velocity and performance.
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NOPE, not even close.
His tests for the 9mm are out of a 3.5 inch barrel. My tests results are from a 1 7/8" barrel and 3" barrel.
His bullet weight is 147 grain. BB loads tested in mine are 158 grain.

For what worth, out of my Ruger security six, 4 inch barrel, the BB outdoorsman gave results of 1166 and 1174 fps. Out of my brother's 65" Blackhawk we got a whooping 1218 fps with .38 special +P! That's 518 ft. pounds ME.
Show me some test reports for any 9mm that gives that ME. No +p+, just +p stuff.

I know, I sound like a BB fan......I AM!:D
 
I apologize if I am hijacking the thread, it's your decision and your thread, and you can choose 9mm over 38 special +P.
It was just your statement:
"The 9mm is certainly superior to the .38special +P, that is without question."

I suggest you do tests out of your particular gun to see the real results.
Relying on othes testing can be decieving.
Good luck on your search!
 
NOPE, not even close.
His tests for the 9mm are out of a 3.5 inch barrel. My tests results are from a 1 7/8" barrel and 3" barrel.
His bullet weight is 147 grain. BB loads tested in mine are 158 grain.

For what worth, out of my Ruger security six, 4 inch barrel, the BB outdoorsman gave results of 1166 and 1174 fps. Out of my brother's 65" Blackhawk we got a whooping 1218 fps with .38 special +P! That's 518 ft. pounds ME.
Show me some test reports for any 9mm that gives that ME. No +p+, just +p stuff.

I know, I sound like a BB fan......I AM!
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OK so we don't agree (no surprise there), at least not as long as you continue with your Buffalo Bore obsession. BB is not the be all and end all of ammo performance. BB does not even rank among the top 5 9mm loads most used by law enforcement. There must be good reason for it.

I have no need to conduct my own tests. There have been plenty already conducted by people far knowledgeable then myself and there is ample, overwhelming evidence that 9mm is superior to .38special+P in most cases and law enforcement and military seem to agree. In fact, Luckygunner even goes so far to say that 9mm had comparable penetration to even .357mag in his tests and with much less recoil.

It's like your grasping at straws here, trying to pick the most extreme examples possible to prove your point that .38special+P is the equal of a quality 9mm defensive load when, in fact, the majority of loads civilians and law enforcement are most likely to use are those tested by Luckygunner and outperform most .38spl+P loads in comparable barrel lengths.

Luckygunners ballistics gel tests are some of the most fair, detailed, well laid out and with the most varieties, brands and types of ammo tested that I have ever seen. Yet there is always going to be some fanboy who thinks it's all bunk or that he must be biased because he didn't get around to testing their particular favorite make and model. Sure, his tests don't tell the whole story but it gives us a very good indication on how these loads might perform in the real world.
 
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I have no idea why weaker came out as I wrote that post. I know that plus p in the same bullet range has lower velocity and therefore less powerful.

When the nine federal came out came out federal touted it as having very nearly as much energy as a .357.

I know that the nine is more powerful because I loaded +p .38 years ago and I was really disappointed.
 
HighValleyRanch has it right.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Oh yeah... those are some really, deep informative comments there. That really changes my perspective on the whole thing. With that, I suppose I can just throw all of Luckygunner's and others testing results out the window and just go with Buffalo Bore then. Thanks for sharing.
 
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BB does not even rank among the top 5 9mm loads most used by law enforcement. There must be good reason for it.
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Sure, there is a good reason for it, Buffalo Bore ammo is EXPENSIVE!!!!

Don't make the mistake of thinking that the police (or the military) use the "best" ammo there is. They don't. They use what is supplied, which is ammo that (hopefully) meets the specs decided on by ADMINISTRATORS, and of those loads to do meet the arbitrary specs, they buy what is cheapest.

Not because they don't care about officers lives and safety, but because that is the way our system works, and they don't really have much choice.

The 9mm JHP that famously "failed" in the 86 Miami shootout met every spec the FBI had. After a "blame game" process (which blamed everything but the shooting ability of the agents involved) the FBI changed their specs.

ALL revolvers "pull" bullets. It is the nature of the beast, because cases are held at the rear (rim or clip), and they recoil "away" from the bullet due to inertia.

This is not a problem in many calibers and guns. In some, it is. The heavier the bullet, the lighter the gun, and the stronger the recoil, the greater the pull effect.

I would expect any 9mm round made the normal way to have enough neck tension and crimp to be ok shooting in any normal weight revolver. You MIGHT see an issue in the very lightest guns with the heaviest bullets, but you shouldn't, and you probably won't.

The gun used matters! As an experiment, I fired uncrimped, standard velocity (850fps) 158gr .38 Special out of an N frame S&W, and a K frame S&W. No bullet movement from the N frame, slight movement in the K frame. Same ammo, but the weight of the gun changed the amount of "pull" that recoil had on the bullet. (and this is why we crimp, so that rounds will work properly in everything we shoot them out of.)

If you aren't getting "creep" or "crimp jump" with the ammo you are shooting and the gun you are using, don't worry about it.

If you are getting, then there are steps to take, IF it is enough to be worrisome.
 
Don't make the mistake of thinking that the police (or the military) use the "best" ammo there is. They don't. They use what is supplied, which is ammo that (hopefully) meets the specs decided on by ADMINISTRATORS, and of those loads to do meet the arbitrary specs, they buy what is cheapest.
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OK, but that doesn't change the fact that 9mm is better then most .38special+P does it? I think using a very hot example like the Buffalo Bore to support an argument that .38special+P is the equal to or even better then 9mm in general is being a bit dishonest.

I understand that organizations like LE and Military have budgets to contend with but they also have the resources to do the type of extensive testing that most of us can only dream of and I don't disregard their results, specs and choices lightly. Every ammo choice on their lists is excellent and they don't come cheap, at least not to us civilians.
 
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Speed is important. Speed matters. Speed kills armor. I've seen demonstrations of 9mm penetrating barriers that .45acp could not.
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Speed matters. So does bullet profile. The .45 is heavier but it is also fatter. The hollowpoints most people are using for self defense only exaggerate the effect. If velocity and penetration are your aim, then you can go a step further with .327 Federal in a revolver. You only have to sacrifice the compelling "ammo is cheap and everywhere" feature...

... 9mm is considerably shorter then .38special and are far less bulky then carrying loaded speed loaders with .38special...
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This is true. I've never owned a 9mm revolver but the few I've seen used larger frames designed to fit .357 magnum. Does anyone make a revolver that's actually built around 9mm?
 
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If velocity and penetration are your aim, then you can go a step further with .327 Federal in a revolver.
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That is something I am planning on. I'm looking at an LCR chambered in .327Fed as a future purchase. I already have an IWB holster for one.

This is true. I've never owned a 9mm revolver but the few I've seen used larger frames designed to fit .357 magnum. Does anyone make a revolver that's actually built around 9mm?
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My Taurus 905 appears to be identical in size to their standard M85 model. The cylinder might be slightly thicker to withstand the pressure, I'm not sure. I will find out once my M85 arrives from Palmetto State Armory.
 
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