Teacher Left Gun in Restroom

Double Naught Spy said:
Money is a very real factor when it comes to community safety, be it paying for more cops or things like bridge repairs.
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Skolnick said:
Money is only a factor when it's a factor.
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Double Naught Spy said:
I am sure you were trying to make some sort of point, but I don't see what it is. Money is ALWAYS a factor when it comes to paying for things like police protection.
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Like Major League Baseball arguing on one hand that they ought to be exempt from the anti-trust regulations that govern other businesses because they are special and arguing on the other hand that they should be allowed to relocate franchises because they are a business like every other business -- money is not a factor until the man wants us to believe it is a factor.

Two hundred and fifty miles are less than 4% of the total 6700 miles of streets and roads that LA maintains. Covering 4% of the roads will do little to end "global warming", but at $40K per mile, it will cost them $10 million dollars.

If there is enough of other people's money to spend on fashionable projects -- when they are a quarter of a billion in the red -- then money for police and fire is not a factor.


https://www.creators.com/read/thomas-sowell/03/13/budget-politics
 
Budget Politics
By Dr. Thomas Sowell
March 5, 2013

At the local level, the first response to budget cuts is often to cut the police department and the fire department. There may be all sorts of wasteful boondoggles that could have been cut instead, but that would not produce the public alarm that reducing police protection and fire protection can produce. And public alarm is what can get budget cuts restored ...
 
If we are serious about making schools hard targets, why don't we hire real armed guards?
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I was qualified as n armed guard for a while. It took 20 hours of training and passing a background test. I believe I was required to shoot just under 60 rounds. It was a joke. Most police sponsored firearms training is little better.

The officers who can shoot are mostly training on their own time and their own dime.
 
I did not read the article.Apparently a concealed carry person who happened to be a teacher made a serious error while not in a school.
There are about 350,000,000 people in the USA. That makes for a nearly infinite number of little stories every day.
If a newspaper wants a headline about nearly anything to support an agenda,they can find a story to support it.
Pick any group,any subset of people,you won't have to wait long and one of them will make just about any mistake you want to exploit.
Fact is violent crime with guns is way down from where it was 10,15,20 years ago,
And the kids are probably statistically safer in school than they are at home.
I'm not making light of school shootings. Like airline crashes,they are horrible.
But we take greater risks every day without thinking about it.
Some are reluctant to accept that "only just a teacher"could possibly be as competent with a firearm as maybe 70% of the LEO's who got a gun with the badge and shoot a few rounds to qualify once a year.
Yet somehow they might believe they are far more qualified to be armed than any of the amateur civilians here on TFL.
Every day we face hundreds of other drivers of unknown to questionable competency on the road. We may have family with us,and 55 mph oncoming traffic. We trust a silly painted white line to keep us alive every day.
I'm in favor of losing the labels and stop looking down on the teacher who chooses to have some teeth and claws as a last line of defense to protect themselves and the kids.
We COULD think in terms of providing resources (training and ammunition,peers,a place to shoot,a "user group" to SUPPORT the teacher who choose to step up.

Everyone has a different idea of what "Armed Teacher"means.
Some pursue the argument we should not put the burden of defense on the teachers,etc,etc,etc. Actually,I agree with that point.
But it seems ironic that here,on these pages we support OUR right to carry,OUR right to be armed.....We say guns are for "When seconds count,and the police are minutes away.."
EXCEPT...for teachers.
No,don't put the school security responsibility on teachers,I advocate a team of at least two security personnel per school...

PAX can speak for herself,and I don't speak for her,but from her I get the concept of "Kornered Kat"

If a teacher is in a "Kornered Kat" situation with students,in gravest extreme with no other options (apparently it DOES happen) I want that teacher to have some 9mm fangs and claws.
Win,lose,or draw,I want that teacher to be able to fight.

If we can get the teachers allowed to be armed,FOLKS LIKE US can help give them the support to become and remain competent.

There are probably some potential 3 gun shooters among them.

This COULD make for some changes in the atitudes about the 2A at the school level.

Teachers skilled and familiar with firearms might be an important social change
 
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A few points re arming teachers.

1. Many object that teachers are not trained to be SWAT officers. Nor are many LEO's trained for SWAT duties. No one proposes that teachers be turned into SWATers, but that does not mean they cannot be trained to better assure the safety of themselves and students.

2. Teachers are not screened to weed out persons unsuitable to be permitted to carry firearms for the protection of themselves and others. Setting aside 2A arguments to the effect that all of us have that right, unless we have lost it for some reason such as a felony conviction, no one is saying that teachers who wish to carry on campus cannot be screened and selected based on suitability.

3. Arming teachers is not going to stop the school killings. Few problems are solved by any one solution, which is not a valid reason not to implement an a partial solution.

4. Teachers want to be teachers and should not be forced to act as cops. Only open the program to willing teachers.
 
The firing of a pistol, at a threat, anywhere is not brain surgery. With a female Teacher, a little more difficult, due to the dress of same. But a pair of pants, trousers, and a hang-free top, fixed. Align sights, press trigger?

The basics can be taught, in two hours. The harder skill? Shooting at a human being, if the internal fortitude required, is well established, and a target (bad person with a weapon) is found in a School. Hopefully, a teacher coming from behind! The ideal situation, front sight, press.

This will never be tested, till teachers are armed.
 
Boxes and labels! Everyone seems to have a stereo typical idea of what a "teacher" is.
And some seem to have difficulty believing a "teacher" could be anything but a bumbling incompetent passive woman with a gun.
You might want to check your assumptions.

There ARE some teachers,male or female,who just self identify as a non-gun persons who are not interested.Thats OK. They won't cause any problems because they won't be armed.

IF there is a profile(IMO) of a person who is likely to be a liability armed in a school,its the MALE,perhaps fellow TFL member,who already "knows everything" You know,that guy on YouTube ??
You know,the guy we write threads about from incidents we experience at the gunshop or range.?

I worked in the public schools for 10 years.I met teachers who were skydivers,mountain climbers,kayakers,mountain bikers,and most have some form of fitness routine.

I'm saying most are far more active and fit than the "On the job retired pudgy donut munching School Resource Officer"

One of the teacher I worked with was attacked in her car by a creep with a hypo syringe. Her side interest away from the school was Roller Derby. She knocked the tar out of her attacker.

I don't know PAX. I read her stuff here.She has my respect. Among other things,PAX is a teacher.A firearms and self defense teacher.

It is my opinion that if you have a teacher who makes a commitment.."Not on my watch!!!" and sets to get the training and the practice, an instructor like PAX can turn that teacher into someone who will punch holes in a school murderer if he tries to get to her kids.

And I have no doubt a teacher who was a PAX student would be as safe and effective ...or more so..than the majority of us.

Lets not forget , Jeanne A.,2007,the New Life Church,Colorado Springs.She stopped an AR-15 Church shooting the would have been horrific.

The Washington DC officers who stopped the shooting of the Republican baseball practice,IIRC,were Women,who used courage and handguns to stop a nut with an SKS.

Not all teachers are Women,but so what? shooting is a skill that can be learned. SD is a mindset that can be found.

Julie Golob and many of her peers look a lot like many school teachers.

I believe a Woman School Teacher can be as strong,fierce and courageous as any other Warrior if you want to harm the kids.
Yes,they would do well to acquire the tools and skills...so?how is that different for a teacher than any other person who takes CCW seriously? Including us?

Some folks here sound the same,exactly,as all the hand wringing skeptics who predicted more concealed carry permits would lead to a wild west bloodbath in the streets. How is that working out?
I don't think legit carry folks have been a problem.

Labels and boxes!!

Teachers are made of the same stuff YOU are,and I stand for their right to be armed as much as I stand for YOUR right to be armed,
Especially when they are the Sheepdog watching over the kids at the final,last ditch level.
 
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Widen the scope - everyone is hung up on the word "teacher". Change that to "faculty and staff". Changes things a bit.
I agree, force no one to do this, but recognize the right to armed self defense inside the school.
 
As a former intern at K-12 schools and a professor at various community colleges now, I'm generally against arming teachers. I say that because the vast majority of hobbyists don't train enough to be proficient shooting under pressure, and a lot of the teachers in schools aren't even hobbyists. A three-day familiarization course and some range time will impart neither the skill nor the confidence necessary for a teacher to take down a determined and likely better-equipped foe, especially when adrenaline is surging. Now, veterans, hobbyists, and others who have relevant training and experience who also happen to be faculty or staff, that's another matter.
 
There is a great difference between "arming teachers" and "allowing teachers to be armed"

A large percentage of police officers were as unfamiliar with firearms as this stereotypical "teacher" we are talking about.The LEO got their first gun with the badge.Many armed police officers ,such as a school SRO,are no more firearms competent than a teacher would be if that teacher decided "I've had enough.It stops here,with me. I will train,I will become competent,and if a murderer comes to my class,I will fight!"(As opposed to "Hey,Officer Murphy!! You have not done your annual range qualification yet! Get that done this week,along with blood borne disease training")

I just do not understand or accept the attitude that teachers are somehow not capable of developing the skills to be competently armed,and,as a subset of people,no doubt some teachers ARE skilled with arms.
I do agree,a three day workshop is not enough.To be armed requires a commitment to a change in lifestyle.
If a teacher can commit to Roller Derby,or Tai Chi,or Zumba,or skiing,or having a child or a dog,they can make a life/death commitment to being armed IF THEY MAKE that choice.
A three day workshop won't make you a parent.Its a chosen life path.Teachers do it.
I DO understand how the Dem Party has a relationship with teacher unions,and there IS a powerful force in the schools to comply with the PC "agenda". If a six year old kid can get "zero tolerance" expelled for the shape he chewed his pop-tart ...something is not sane.

I have enough faith in the rational minds of SOME teachers to believe that they are thinking" I want to be armed"

FWIW,I spent 10 years working in k-12 public schools. Custodian.
 
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HiBC, I agree that teachers are more than capable of developing those skills. However, I should mention that I was an intern in NY, where the vast majority of teachers I know have no real desire to carry a weapon, and therein lies the problem. If someone is reluctant to carry, they likely will not practice, and then we have someone who is armed, be it an LEO or a teacher, who probably shouldn't be. Your point that we can allow teachers who have the skills, or the desire to obtain them, to be armed is well taken.
 
Oni, you have made a reasonable statement.
As I said earlier,folks conjure up different ideas about what "armed teachers" means.
It all gets spun into a set of talking points canned arguments, and fears.
When I was in High School,(maybe junior high?) my state of Colorado passed a law requiring a Hunter Safety card to get a hunting license. There was not yet an infrastructure for the training,so it was decided that ALL students would get Hunter Safety training and a card as part of their public education,for a time.Firing a .22 was part of the class.
IMO,it was a good thing. Its good to dispel fear and ignorance.Its good for anyone to gain an awareness of firearm safety.No one was required to hunt.
I doubt it would ever happen,but,IMO,for the teachers to get a very basic equivalent of that Hunter Safety course to dispel fear and ignorance would be good.I agree,its a BAD idea to pressure someone to be armed....but where did that idea come from? I have never heard anyone suggest teachers be pressured to be armed. Does that idea have any foundation in reality?
I don't think so.Its hyperbole.

I have never heard anyone suggest teachers should replace armed security guards ,receive training in clearing buildings ,etc.
IMO,the teacher needs to stay with the kids.

In Colorado,there is a "FASTER Program" to help give teachers skills to handle school shooter scenarios. A significant part of that training is about helping a gunshot victim stay alive. Folks have died who could have been saved .
Here is a URL
http://fastersaveslives.org/
 
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Armed teachers sound like a great idea. Maybe.

The 1st time an armed teacher kills a bad guy they'll be a hero.
The 1st time an armed teacher kills a good guy they'll be a zero.
 
Just abolish the “gun free zone” stupidity and let water seek its own level. Those that have an interest in carrying will, those that dont..wont.

An added bonus to that approach is those of us with kids in school dont have to leave our guns at home when going to pick up little Johnnie or when going tonhis school play.

Instant fix.
 
To me it comes down to this: Are we and the people around us safer because we are armed and capable of mounting resistance to assault? If so, why is the answer different for someone in the teaching profession?

I have said this before, but it is pertinent to repeat it in this thread because of the way the discussion has gone: I spent fifteen years as a volunteer in the local schools, nine of them at a high school. I was there so much that there were teachers who asked me how I got out of faculty meetings, not realizing that I wasn't employed there. In addition to spending countless hours with students in the school, I also traveled extensively with them. It was very frustrating to know that at the moments when I had the greatest responsibility, I was required to disarm. I loved those kids. I would have taken a bullet for them if I needed to, but I would have had a better chance of helping if I had been allowed to carry a firearm.

Not all teachers should be armed, but I know for a fact that in the schools where I worked, there were teachers who felt like I did about their - our - students. Denying them a means to defend the kids they love does not contribute to school safety - it harms it immeasurably.
 
No one was hurt. Happen else where's i.e. other than a school. A Police matter. Not the schools business. ~~lax of being responsible as I see this thread.~~ Suspend the individuals C/C permit for the balance of time remaining on current permit w/court fine ($) "Teach the teacher a lesson. No sleeping at the throttle aloud when carrying a gun."
 
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