Taurus Judge ~ Home Defender

Does the Judge Home Defender provide a reasonable compromise

  • Yes, absolutely a good option for defending inside small homes

    Votes: 9 24.3%
  • Meh - rather have a handgun for that

    Votes: 4 10.8%
  • Meh - rather have a long gun for that

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Nope, it's just another gimmick

    Votes: 24 64.9%

  • Total voters
    37
  • Poll closed .
I really don't see the utility in a 13" barrel on a Judge, but...

My Judge is my nightstand gun. I've shot it a lot, and I know it's limitations. Nevertheless, I sleep comfortably at night with it by my bed. I've often wondered if the multitude of Judge naysayers have ever owned one. I submit that if someone entered my bedroom at night (and I was awake), I would be able to defend my life and my wife's with five rounds from the Judge - or at least be able to get to a secondary gun (or the Judge speedloaders) if necessary.

My order of shot:
#1 - buckshot
#2 - Winchester PDX Defender
#3 - Winchester PDX Defender
#4 - .45 Colt
#5 - .45 Colt

And I stake my life on this...every night.

While I still think the Judge is pretty much a gimmick, I completely cede that it would make hits more likely from 10 yards (max) in the bedroom when the boogeyman breaks in your door and you're still half asleep.

The next segment of that equation is what happens when the "boogeyman" you shot when your were half asleep is your adult stepson barging in half drunk because he had a fight with your DIL.
 
Well, seeing as the Judge is just a gimmick and .410 is so extremely ineffective regardless of shot size, the drunken stepson has at worst merely been sobered up by being shot by the Judge.
 
Well, seeing as the Judge is just a gimmick and .410 is so extremely ineffective regardless of shot size, the drunken stepson has at worst merely been sobered up by being shot by the Judge.

There's a stark difference between something that is a compromise between two wildly varying options (capable of using both .410 shell and .45 colt... those are options vary pretty wildly), and something that is non-lethal. I don't think anyone here has insisted that the Judge is non-lethal, or less than lethal, or even ineffective at incapacitating targets within a certain range. Just that that there are many tradeoffs in that compromise, and that there are likely more viable dedicated SD/HD options.

And again, I will say that it probably makes at least ONE hit on target more likely. At close ranges, that round may be an affective hit. At longer ranges, then we're discussing unintended hits on background targets.
 
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bearing in mind that my thoughts are just my humble opinion, the Judge concept is flawed. It's not that handy a revolver, being heavy and ungainly. The .410 is not much of a SD load, and with .45 Colt, the Judge seems to lack in the accuracy department.
There are better choices out there.
 
5whiskey said:
I don't think anyone here has insisted that the Judge is non-lethal, or less than lethal, or even ineffective at incapacitating targets within a certain range.

As a matter of fact, someone did...

stinkeypete said:
I would not shoot a PHEASANT with proper .410 shotgun (3" shell), let alone a raccoon.

Sorry, I stand by my statement- I would not hunt pheasant with a .410 or shoot a raccoon with it. The raccoon would not be killed.

According to him, not even a full-size .410 Shotgun can kill a Raccoon, which would obviously render it non-lethal to a man, especially out of a Judge.
 
TO my way of thinking, Taurus took a poor idea (the Judge) and made it worse.

Agree. I've shot them in various venues at times. If snakes and other small vermin are an issue and you need portability, then it makes a viable alternative to a shotgun. I'll just load some shotshells in my .357 Mag or .41 Mag and be better off all around.

There are some SD shootings that have occurred with the .410 buckshot and the performance was poor, less than the mouse gun handgun calibers, in general.
 
There are some SD shootings that have occurred with the .410 buckshot and the performance was poor, less than the mouse gun handgun calibers, in general.

It would be interesting to see that information, the good and the bad widely available, and particularly whether or not the round(s) were fired from a Judge or an actual shotgun.

There are quite a few factors important to this discussion, but they are twisted around each other (as is often the case), which can lead to confusion and misunderstandings.

One basic question is, "Is the .410 suitable for home defense?" (against humans)

This question hinges on how you define "suitable", and I define it as "most likely to do the desired job under normally envisioned conditions."
Not, "how well does it do that job", Not "this or that does the job better" those are other separate questions. Adequate is suitable, in my book. Better performing rounds would be more suitable, provided some additional factor(s) don't negate that.

One of the factors always considered is, does the round have sufficient power to do the job. Despite some people's die hard convictions the .410 is inadequate, reality indicates otherwise. However, enough to do the job and enough to do the job WELL are different matters, too.

So, what does one actually get from the .410, and specifically, from the various Judge guns??

Various .410 buckshot loads fired from a 24" shotgun gave velocities in the mid 1300fps range or a bit higher. This is consistent with larger bore shotguns, and the fact that it is the upper velocity range consistent with good patterning. Driving shot faster generally results in much worse patterns.

Now, figure how much less velocity you will have fired from a 6", or 3" revolver barrel. OR, in the case of the Home Defender, a 13" revolver barrel.

Clearly one would expect the highest velocity from the longest barrel, but, in this case, IS that difference in velocity enough to overcome the handling characteristics of the Home Defender model in use for home defense??

Personal judgement call, for me, its not worth it.

Winchester has a 3" 1/4oz slug load (call it 110gr for ease of comparison) which they advertise as doing 1800fps. One tester I read clocked it from a 24" Mossberg and found it actually faster than advertised, getting 1955fps from their gun. This is nothing to sneeze at, but not what you're going to get from that round fired from a handgun.

Another point is the pattern size & spread. At across the room distances, the pattern may only be the size of the palm of your hand, or even less. And just as one can miss with a single bullet, one can also miss with a pattern that size (especially if its only 3 balls of buckshot). The idea that because it is a shotgun one doesn't need to aim is widely believed by the ignorant and under informed public, but its not true, and neve has been true. You DO need to aim, or you can't count on the results.

These factors, along with others are why I feel that advertising the .410 as a good defensive round are misleading marketing hype.
 
It's not too hard to believe, honestly...

After all, when it comes to Federal Premium .410 Handgun 000 Buckshot — one of the best defensive loads for the Taurus Judge — each pellet weighs 70grs and travels at a velocity of 850fps out of a standard 3" Barrel Judge, which is going to give you similar performance to .32 ACP.

Granted, it's like getting shot 4-5 times with .32 ACP per trigger pull, but still, that's like what? 150ft-lbs of energy per pellet?

It's on the high-end of what folks typically consider Mouse Gun performance, but it checks out with claims that terminal performance is similar.

So it stands to reason that if someone used a Judge to defend themselves that was loaded with .410 ammo that wasn't designed with short barrels in mind, then it's most likely exiting the muzzle at even lower velocity, and therefore striking with less energy, thus begetting performance beneath that of .32 ACP.

As someone who actually uses the Judge for Home Defense, I've conducted thorough research on the subject, so I'm abundantly aware of its capabilities. Ammo selection is paramount because obviously ordinary .410 ammo is designed to be fired from shotguns with barrels no shorter than 18", ergo such ammo performs poorly out of a 3" barrel with lots of unburnt powder, low velocity, and poor performance. Sure, it will still wound someone quite badly as close range, likely even kill them unless they seek immediate medical attention, but it's sketchy. Too many variables to rely upon.
However, the average person — regardless of whether they own one or not, like it or hate it — doesn't know this, so they base their expectations on either the best or the worst ammo choice available. The best is an absolute fight-stopper, the worst...I dunno, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that it performs similarly to .25 ACP.
 
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I love you guys, but...

As for shooting pheasants, the per pellet energy is the same for all the pellets in the swarm, true. You need about 3 pellets to bring down a bird. True.

But I use 1 (16/16) to 1.25 (20/16) ounces and still have cripples the dog brings back.

in .410, you sort of top out at 11/16 ounce for a 3" magnum shell and 9/16 for 2 1/2" shells.

Basically, my 20 gauge has twice the payload and I still get cripples. True, the expert shooter can do it.

It might say 110 g 1800 fps on the box, but out of a 13" barrel? Hmmm....
About $9.00 for 5 shells. .45 is cheaper.

I used to have the T/C Contender, and I think all of us played with the rifled .410 barrel at some time. I think we all traded them after a box or two of shells, too.

The most fortunate thing about these Taurus .45/.410 pistols is the consumer is very unlikely to even need to use them. Perhaps it's that Taurus can make money selling them.

Now, if you said you had a pump .410 with Tungsten loads in it, there would be a discussion.

Like you guys, I like firearms. But I would rather have a Hi-Point than a Judge. (and I have owned hi-points)
 
Pheasants aren't humans. Birdshot is not Buckshot. As previously stated, ammo selection is paramount. A proper 000 buckshot load is absolutely devastating within realistic home defense distances, regardless of whether it is delivered by a Shotgun or a Revolver.

You might be able to get away with #4 Turkey Shot with a 12 Gauge Shotgun, but not a .410 Revolver, and regardless you really shouldn't be using birdshot against humans.

There's nothing wrong with Hi-Points, they work just fine, but I'm going to guess that you wouldn't use a Hi-Point for Pheasant Hunting either, would you? Different tools for different purposes.
 
I used to have the T/C Contender, and I think all of us played with the rifled .410 barrel at some time. I think we all traded them after a box or two of shells, too.

No, not all of us, I've kept mine. :D Still use it once in a while, too.

I did, however, buy another barrel in .45 Colt, one that does NOT take .410 shells. With the barrels I have, accuracy of the .45 Colt is superior in the .45 Colt only barrel.

Just out of curiosity, I checked some specs and found that the "Enforcer" .30 carbine pistol is about a pound heavier than the Taurus Home Defender, but 2 inches shorter in overall length.

So, a bit heavier and a bit shorter, but 15 shot (or 30?) .30 carbine vs 5 shot .45 Colt / .410 for home defense? I think I would opt for the higher capacity gun, if I had to choose between just those two...

Taurus Judge with a 6" or shorter barrel? Not my preferred item, but it does make some sense. Same gun with a 13" barrel, (and a rail?) NO. Just no.
Not for me, thanks.
 
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