Taurus Judge ~ Home Defender

[44 AMP]

Yep, that's us, on the super secret payroll of companies that aren't peddling a highly questionable concept to potential customers who don't know enough to understand just how questionable a concept these guns are.

Wait..what.,, we get PAID?????

Sarcasm and humor aside (for now), the concept of a powerful handgun that can also fire shot as a hiking, fishing, camp companion does have merit. Shot loads for pistols have been around for some time, though not in all calibers, and often not commonly stocked on shelves, and some are a bit pricy. Handloaders can make their own shot loads if they choose.

For the non-reloader or in a caliber the factories don't load shot shells, the Judge concept allows the use of .410 shells in a .45 Colt caliber pistol. Its a niche market, but if it fills your niche, I'm fine with that. I fill that particular niche (snake gun also able to fire bullets) with a .45Colt/.410 barrel on a Contender frame.

What I always thought was wrong was marketing it as a somehow superior home defense (or even a carry) gun.

It was a brilliant marketing idea, in that by playing to the un and under informed people's belief in the MYTH of not needing to aim a shotgun, and the power of a shotgun (12ga is the only thing that even slows down the Terminator, you know ) they are selling their product to those people, and that's what marketing is all about. Not what's best. but selling what you make.

I believe that the Home Defender is aimed at people who buy guns for their "cool looks" and not for how well they can be used or actually work. A 13" barrel revolver does not have anywhere near the real world field utility of the same gun with a shorter barrel. Not even close. A 6" or shorter barrel is much more manageable, and better balanced.

So, I think its barking stupid, and even less efficient than the smaller versions. Just my personal opinion. If you love it, buy it, its your $ and your personal butt on the line, if it comes to that.

I have other and better guns for want I want and need.

 

[Forte S+W]

"I can't help but feel like this is the wrong forum to post such a question on considering that the staff members themselves are so comically biased against the Judge that there have actually been threads locked on the subject for seemingly no other reason than gaining too many positive responses, not to mention proclaiming that Taurus needs to go out of business for offering the firearm in question."

Yep, that's us, on the super secret payroll of companies that aren't peddling a highly questionable concept to potential customers who don't know enough to understand just how questionable a concept these guns are.

The ThunderFive introduced this questionable concept some 30 years ago now.

It was stupid then, it remains, in its many new iterations, stupid.

I don't recall saying anything about being on a payroll, I specifically said that such persistent mockery and hatred for a firearm was petulant, petty, unprofessional, and sets a bad example for the community to follow.

If you disagree, then by all means, explain to me how your criticism is mature, objective, professional, and doesn't encourage users to make similar posts whenever someone posts a thread in regards to a firearm which they dislike.

Somehow I doubt that if an ordinary user went around, never missing an opportunity to make denigrating comments in regards to brands/firearms that you like, then eventually they'd get warned, instructed that if they don't like the brand/firearm in question, then they ought to stay out of threads on the subject, because such posts are disruptive and contribute nothing to the discussion whatsoever save to annoy/offend other users, thus classifying such behavior as a form of trolling.
Of course, that would be the response of a responsible, mature, moderator/administrator, so perhaps I'm setting my expectations too high...

Honestly, I don't intend to bash you here, I'm literally attempting to provide you with constructive criticism by informing you that such behavior doesn't reflect well upon you nor the community you represent because it indirectly encourages drive-by troll posts by spreading the message that such behavior is permitted here. If it is, then carry on, but otherwise, you may want to consider your behavior, how it makes you appear to others, and whether you wish to change it.

Try looking at yourself objectively and consider whether your behavior seems like that of a responsible moderator/administrator or that of a schoolyard heckler.

 

[Mike Irwin]

So, what you're apparently claiming, is that anything other than celebratory lauding of the .410 revolver concept is... something.

Whatever.

I've been on this site for over 20 years, as has 44AMP.

Why don't you do some searching and reading of the MANY discussions we've participated in regarding these ridiculous "solutions" in search of a purpose.

Being a staff member doesn't mean that we either have to surrender our own opinions OR suck up the corporate Koolaide in an effort to make people who have been duped into buying one of these ludicrous creations feel good about a poor choice.

No matter what, though, your claim that we on staff go our of our way to close, out of hand, threads on this topic is crap with absolutely no basis in reality.

 

[44 AMP]

"Lighten up, Francis!" -Sgt Hulke in Stripes....

Congratulations, you have successfully baited us into taking the thread off topic, but, no more.

IF the Staff were behaving the way you accuse us of doing, you'd already have a warning, if not actual infraction points for posting off topic. And, this may yet happen.

Your opinion of how the moderators should express their personal opinions when participating in a thread is not the topic of this thread.

IF you think this is a valid topic for discussion, start a thread about it. Do keep in mind ALL the forum rules when doing so.

The topic is the Taurus Judge Home Defender.

 

[5whiskey]

Back on topic... I voted gimmick. I could see value in a 45colt/.410 revolver as a snake/barnyard/trail gun. But I have enough experience to know that rifling opens shot patterns up. A LOT. On top of the fact that shot patterns from a pistol length barrel won't exactly be "tight." As to the 45 Colt, I've shot enough C&B revolver to know that projectiles that require a significant jump from the cylinder chamber to the forcing con4 just aren't as accurate. This is literally one reason why over powder felt wads in various thicknesses exist. And dacron or cornstarch fillers are used when shooting light BP loads. That long jump the 45 Colt has to male will affect accuracy.

Concur with others. It's marketed as "The Premier" SD and HD gun, but it has serious drawbacks.

 

[bamaranger]

worthless

The fascination with the entire Judge family is beyond me. Too big to conceal, small payload and limited effectiveness with shot, 1 round down from a large frame revolver. All that, and yet the shop owners in my area say they sell them as fast as the things come in.

Now we have an even bigger, clunkier version, the Home Defender. Probably sell like hotcakes to the same folks who bought the other versions.

 

[Recycled bullet]

I want a Taurus judge for carpenter bees.

 

[TruthTellers]

The fascination with the entire Judge family is beyond me. Too big to conceal, small payload and limited effectiveness with shot, 1 round down from a large frame revolver. All that, and yet the shop owners in my area say they sell them as fast as the things come into the shop.

Now we have an even bigger, clunkier version, the Home Defender. Probably sell like hotcakes to the same folks who bought the other versions.

The smallest Judges, the Public Defenders, are not so big they cannot be concealed. If you can carry a 4" .357, you'll carry a Judge PD just fine. The only weakness I see is the lack of a .45 Colt only cylinder so people have the option of improved shooting with .45 with the option of seapping the cylinder for .410 and also .45 Colt, but with reduced velocity and accuracy.

Even with the current Judges I don't have trouble shooting man size targets out to 15 yards with the .45 and the .410 holds far more shot than .45 shotshells do.

 

[veprdude]

I own a S&W Governor, roughly the same thing, minus the long barrel- but everything still applies. I was excited buying it since it could shoot shotgun loads. That is, until I found out that even .410 slug loads have less muzzle energy than 45 LC loads. What about buckshot loads? Even worse. Best case scenario for hot loads is a 45 LC, which at that point you may as well just get something in 45 LC.

As I've said, I have a S&W variant and the conclusion is that it really does nothing well.

On a side note, it might be worthwhile on a post-apocalyptic scenario where you only seem to find .410 and 45 LC ammo.

 

[TruthTellers]

I own a S&W Governor, roughly the same thing, minus the long barrel- but everything still applies. I was excited buying it since it could shoot shotgun loads. That is, until I found out that even .410 slug loads have less muzzle energy than 45 LC loads. What about buckshot loads? Even worse. Best case scenario for hot loads is a 45 LC, which at that point you may as well just get something in 45 LC.

As I've said, I have a S&W variant and the conclusion is that it really does nothing well.

On a side note, it might be worthwhile on a post-apocalyptic scenario where you only seem to find .410 and 45 LC ammo.

And what other double action .45 Colt revolvers that are roughly the size of an L frame and have a 5 round cylinder are available besides the rare and questionable quality Charter Arms?

 

[Prof Young]

One more thing to consider . . .

Gun Owners:

I used to have a Public Defender as my HD gun. Then, as I learned more about HD and considered the circumstances under which, realistically, someone might invade my home, it occurred to me that I may not want to kill the person who has invaded. Given where I live, a herd of gang bangers won't be breaking into my house anytime soon. Most likely it would be an individual with a drug problem looking for stuff easy to steal. Most likely, if force became necessary, I'd just want to wound the guy. So I switched from the Public Defender to a 9mm with a laser on it. Now a non-body mass shot may be more doable. And with a large capacity magazine, if the gang does show up. I can take care of all of them.

Life is good.
Prof Young

 

[jetinteriorguy]

I find it interesting that if you sawed off the barrel of a single shot shotgun and the stock in a .410 gauge you’d be in deep doo doo with the ATF but a revolver shooting the same ammunition in an even shorter more concealable form capable of shooting more rounds is all hunky dory.

 

[bamaranger]

reconsider

Prof
I had a lengthy post worked up but condensed it to this. I am not the morals police and not a lawyer, but I'm going to respectfully suggest you reconsider your thoughts on SD/HD. I am not familiar with IL law on the use of deadly force or shooting a home intruder. I suggest you learn the particulars of your state law immediately concerning the use of deadly force and then search out and attend some sort of shoot/don't shoot class.

Shooting to wound is not taught by anyone, anywhere and the doorway to all sorts of trouble. I would think especially in IL.

 

[44 AMP]

"shooting to wound" is a hugely flawed concept. First, it may not stop an attack. Second, People can, and have died from what was not an obviously fatal wound.

And, third, "shooting to wound" indicates you are not convinced that deadly force is necessary, and legally, if deadly force is not necessary, you should not shoot.

 

[BourbonCowboy]

I really don't see the utility in a 13" barrel on a Judge, but...

My Judge is my nightstand gun. I've shot it a lot, and I know it's limitations. Nevertheless, I sleep comfortably at night with it by my bed. I've often wondered if the multitude of Judge naysayers have ever owned one. I submit that if someone entered my bedroom at night (and I was awake), I would be able to defend my life and my wife's with five rounds from the Judge - or at least be able to get to a secondary gun (or the Judge speedloaders) if necessary.

My order of shot:
#1 - buckshot
#2 - Winchester PDX Defender
#3 - Winchester PDX Defender
#4 - .45 Colt
#5 - .45 Colt

And I stake my life on this...every night.

 

[44 AMP]

I will freely admit to not owning a Judge, and am not likely to, unless someone gives me one as a gift.

That being said, I have decades of experience with over a dozen .45 caliber revolvers and pistols including .410 pistols.

I have handled the Judge, do like the grips, they put me in mind of my old Super Rat dirt bike.

SO, I think I'm entitled to me opinions. I do see your point though, as I have several handguns that are roundly criticized and condemned by people who have never even held or shot one, let alone owned one.

I don't recall anyone saying the Judge wouldn't work adequately for self defense, only that there are better (and in my opinion, MUCH better) choices.

I don't see anyone advocating a 5 shot revolver, other than the Judge, for home defense. The 5 shot S&W Chief Special class guns are touted for their small size and usefulness as concealed carry pistols, not as ideal home defense weapons.

The .45 Colt has been reliably putting down men and horses since 1873. But the Judge is not pushed as a good choice because it shoots the .45 Colt, the hype is on the fact that it can shoot .410 shotgun shells.

I believe people are being mislead by the advertising to believe that the .410 is somehow a superior defense round, and I don't think it is.

I think there are a great many better choices for a home defense firearm, have several, so the Judge isn't on my wish list.

If you're happy with it, by all means keep it, and practice with it so it will be effective at need.

As for a 13" barrel revolver for a nightstand gun, my drawers simply aren't big enough for that.

 

[Mike Irwin]

How dare you have an opinion that's not 1 billion percent thumbs up Koolade quafing deification, AMP?

 

[Sarge]

I had to look the thing up. For that size and MSRP you could get a Shockwave type shotgun, made or modded for mini-shells, and bring more mojo to your Castle's defense. believe you can get them in 20 gauge if the 12 don't suit you.

 

[Forte S+W]

I find it interesting that if you sawed off the barrel of a single shot shotgun and the stock in a .410 gauge you’d be in deep doo doo with the ATF but a revolver shooting the same ammunition in an even shorter more concealable form capable of shooting more rounds is all hunky dory.

It's because it doesn't fit the ATF's description of a Shotgun, ergo it cannot be classified as such, same as the Mossberg 590 Shockwave or Remington TAC-14.

Firearms manufacturers have become pretty adept when it comes to exploiting loopholes in the ATF's overly specific descriptions of various firearms to bring firearms to market which are for all intents and purposes Short-Barrel Shotguns/Rifles, but because they have a couple little differences from the ATF's description of such things, they cannot be classified as such. Hence why we have so many AR "Pistols" which are just SBR's without a stock and Pump-Action "Firearms" which are just Short-Barrel Shotguns with bird's head pistol grips.

Fortunately, because such firearms have inherent limitations in application which effectively render them special purpose firearms, they aren't often used in crimes, and the ATF has bigger fish to fry, so they don't bother attempting to reclassifying them.

 

[44 AMP]

Originally Posted by jetinteriorguy
I find it interesting that if you sawed off the barrel of a single shot shotgun and the stock in a .410 gauge you’d be in deep doo doo with the ATF but a revolver shooting the same ammunition in an even shorter more concealable form capable of shooting more rounds is all hunky dory.

The revolver is hunky dory because it is RIFLED. The exact same handgun would be an NFA item if it were smoothbore.

By the definition in the law, shotguns are smooth bore (not rifled) no matter what ammo is fired through them, it is the physical characteristics of the firearm that put it into specific classification groups for legal purposes.

Put a buttstock on that .410 revolver and you're back in deep doo doo, (unless it meets federal length requirements for a rifle)

The specific wording of the laws matters. The wording may no seem sensible, and often isn't (to us, today) but it still matters, and in fact is the only things that does matter.