Taught my son a lesson in awareness & safety yesterday
- Thread starter threegun
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David Armstrong
Moderator
You keep missing the point. It has nothing to do with attracting the bad guys, the whole point of my discussion has been not attracting bad guys unnecessarily, without some reason. That means looking at your situation and doing things the smart way. Going out in public attracts the bad guys. Having a house attracts the bad guys. Driving through town attracts the bad guys. My point (and that of others) is that one should not do things to increase the attention of the BG without some reason. Again, you don’t walk around with all of your money held in your hand all the time, do you?
That seems to disagree with previous posts from you, but that may be an incorrect perception on my part.
I’m sorry, but this just furthers my point. If I regularly went places that I had to put my son on watch detail, I’d question the wisdom of going there. And if I couldn’t watch my rods and bait my hooks without needing help watching for BGs I think I’d find someplace else to go fishing.
Again you persist in misunderstanding. Nobody has said a thing about it being necessary to ever wear jewelry, watches, drive fancy cars, carry lots of money, and so on. The point is not to do so in a way, place, or time that attract the bad guys. That is the difference, and until you understand that difference I’m afraid we will continue talking past each other. There is nothing wrong with an attractive lady wearing a skimpy bikini. But wearing it while jogging alone in a bad part of town at 3:00 in the morning is probably not the best thing time or place to do it.
See above. I don’t wear the stuff when it would attract the bad guys. That is part of cost/benefit and risk analysis.
Let’s not forget that part of this conversation started because you could not put the chain in your shirt when it was out.
On the contrary. If I wore a Rolex fishing in the bad part of town, that would be stupid. I don’t think wearing nice jewelry or watches or driving nice cars when appropriate is stupid. The Rolex might be appropriate in a business setting, for example.
Welcome, and it isn’t just your well-being, it is something everyone needs to think about. You might note that my first post here was not in response to anything you said, it was in response to another poster’s comments. Way too many times people do things without realizing the potential for problems that are created. There is a large amount of crime and other social ills that could be reduced if we would all focus on that. Frequently we don’t because it is uncomfortable or “by God, it is my right!” or some such.
For goodness sake. You guys are still arguing about chains and watches. Bad people do bad things to those with and without chains and watches. You can't always be in condition yellow, or red, or whatever. I suppose that if you and your family constantly stay inside your house (in condition red, naturally :rolleyes), you'll be tactically prepared all the time.
He went fishing with his kid. They almost ran into trouble, but things turned out OK. He learned from the experience. Nobody really cares about chains and watches. If you want to wear a chain or a watch, do it. If you don't want to wear them, then don't. In fact, if you don't wear any clothing or accessories, fine by me. Although if I wore nothing, the bad guys and the good guys would flee in disgust.
He went fishing with his kid. They almost ran into trouble, but things turned out OK. He learned from the experience. Nobody really cares about chains and watches. If you want to wear a chain or a watch, do it. If you don't want to wear them, then don't. In fact, if you don't wear any clothing or accessories, fine by me. Although if I wore nothing, the bad guys and the good guys would flee in disgust.
My point is that these items, your rolex or my chain, attract bad guys. You can't say that you wear yours when it won't attract bad guys because you never know who the bad guy is. What you can do is wear it when you don't expect bad guys to be around you. I just try to always stay in areas that are reasonably safe.
You are thinking of my job.....pawnshop manager in a not so nice section of town. That alone makes me a bigger target coming to and from work. I don't hang around these parts before or after work though. I stay on high alert well until I'm in better surroundings and always look for tails (just a habit now). A friend put into my head that someone was going to follow me home and get me while off guard to force me to open the safes here at work. Made me take more precautions.
My point was that wearing jewelry attracts bad guys and is never necessary. You can't guarentee that your Rolex won't attract a bad guy simply by wearing it to a business luncheon. Probably won't be as attractive as wearing it the hood but still attractive to bad guys and not necessary.
Again there are safer places to wear them but no place is completely bad guy free and they never stop attracting.
Yep. The old tank top got me. I could have put the chain in my fanny pack. Leaving was better. Like I said finding myself in a bad area was rare and in this case a fluke. No doubt though that the chain increased my danger level that day. On average though I don't feel it adds much risk given the areas I frequent. I haven't had an issue for many years while wearing it.
I am terrible at explaining thing so bear with me. I don't care if I'm in the "safest part of town" fishing a church pond with Gods angels guarding us LOL. If I'm not able to adequately maintain at least condition light yellow I will ask my son or perhaps my wife to be more aware of our surroundings. I might say boy don't let anybody sneak up on us okay. Not that the area is bad David but you just never know when trouble is coming. As stated before I try my darndest to avoid bad areas.
I very much understand what you are saying. I agree and assume a greater risk by wearing my chain. I try to mitigate that increased risk by environment and awareness. I believe that the it forces me to be more aware of my surroundings at all times. To me given this fact alone I feel less a target. You might feel different.
Fremmer, David and the others are just looking out. They are right in that I am increasing my odds of becomming a target. I just wanted to point out that expensive jewelry draws attention both good and bad no matter when or where you wear it. Owning and occasionally wearing expensive jewelry while understanding its attraction to bad guys then scolding others for doing the same is the reason for my arguement.
I believe that had I stayed fishing that day, even without the chain, trouble was coming. Although the chain could only hurt the situation.
I believe that had I stayed fishing that day, even without the chain, trouble was coming. Although the chain could only hurt the situation.
Ed Lawrence
Inactive
Threegun wrote:
This is different from what you wrote in your first post:
Originally you put your son on watch after you recognized that this wasn't the best area and stayed there at least 30 minutes longer. That hardly constitutes "trying your darndest to avoid bad areas."
People are questioning the judgement you displayed by hanging around fishing in an area that you recognized was questionable, while you and your son wore gold chains, making yourselves look like bait.
This is different from what you wrote in your first post:
Originally you put your son on watch after you recognized that this wasn't the best area and stayed there at least 30 minutes longer. That hardly constitutes "trying your darndest to avoid bad areas."
People are questioning the judgement you displayed by hanging around fishing in an area that you recognized was questionable, while you and your son wore gold chains, making yourselves look like bait.
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Ed, I did tell my son to keep a look out. I did stay longer than I should have. I said so earlier. The "bait" should have been hidden at that point but my attire didn't allow it....again my fault.
What you should understand however is everything didn't just happen at once and I walked into it knowingly. I should have left once I saw the poor people even thought they looked harmless and didn't pay us any mind. I should have left when I saw the clothing under the bridge. I should have tucked away my chain (just in case). I did a bunch of stuff wrong. The reason I posted was to share my good, bad, and SLOW decisions.
As for this
I was simply trying to explain to David that because I said for my son to lookout doesn't necessarily mean a bad area because I do it in good areas as well. During that trip it was obviously a low income area.
I was in condition yellow on the fishing trip. I just waited a tad to long to react to what was happening. Like I said son was having fun fishing and things didn't happen all at once.
What you should understand however is everything didn't just happen at once and I walked into it knowingly. I should have left once I saw the poor people even thought they looked harmless and didn't pay us any mind. I should have left when I saw the clothing under the bridge. I should have tucked away my chain (just in case). I did a bunch of stuff wrong. The reason I posted was to share my good, bad, and SLOW decisions.
As for this
I was simply trying to explain to David that because I said for my son to lookout doesn't necessarily mean a bad area because I do it in good areas as well. During that trip it was obviously a low income area.
I was in condition yellow on the fishing trip. I just waited a tad to long to react to what was happening. Like I said son was having fun fishing and things didn't happen all at once.
And they should question my judgment. I hung around to long in hindsight. I believe that we would have been victims with or without the chains. If you were there I bet you would feel the same. Anyway we got out safely. Boy is smarter for it. Daddy is smarter for it. No bad guys were injured. We caught a few fish too.
JoeBlackSpade
New member
That's the MAIN thing!
Spoken like a true fisherman.
David Armstrong
Moderator
Well, while the focus may still be on watches and chains, I hope that I have conveyed the idea that the fancy jewelry is just a symbol of a much larger problem that many people display, IMO.
Correct, thus the importance of understanding risk issues beforehand and making informed decisions, such as Farnam’s “stealth existence” idea.
David Armstrong
Moderator
And I have never said anything like that. I have always said that the choice to wear for me is based in part on appropriate time and place. The likelihood of a BG being around figures into that.
Actually I wasn’t thinking of that at all, but since you bring it up yes, it seems applicable.
Again you seem to keep missing the basic concept. Few things in life can be guaranteed. But most things can be looked at as increasing or decreasing likelihood of certain events. For example, while fishing in a bad part of town with an expensive chain on would increase the likelihood of encountering problems, those problems are almost nonexistent at the business luncheon. And I can guarantee that if I felt there was a chance of such a problem at the luncheon I would not go there, certainly not with extensive valuables tossed into the mix.
But at this point We seem to be going round and round with what I think is a very simple concept that some seem to find impossible to understand, and I don't see any improvement in the future, so I'm done. You may have the last word.
I guess we should just turn everything over to the bad guys and hide in our houses?
What happens when a car load of thugs pull into the gas station behind you?Do you stay inside the station till they leave, or drive off without getting your gas?
Would you leave a resturant before finishing your meal if a group of undesirables came in?
Come on!
This is a free country -go where you want -sometime you might have to stand up to trouble.
(The guy that stopped and looked at you then looked around )
You should have confronted him with a "hey bud ,you looking for something"
Let him know you are watching him!
Your not the hunted your the hunter!
Willy
What happens when a car load of thugs pull into the gas station behind you?Do you stay inside the station till they leave, or drive off without getting your gas?
Would you leave a resturant before finishing your meal if a group of undesirables came in?
Come on!
This is a free country -go where you want -sometime you might have to stand up to trouble.
(The guy that stopped and looked at you then looked around )
You should have confronted him with a "hey bud ,you looking for something"
Let him know you are watching him!
Your not the hunted your the hunter!
Willy
I don't think threegun made any mistakes by fishing in an area like that. It's not unusual to see a few homeless hanging around a bridge. It's a good place to get out of the rain.
As for the expensive fishing tackle, if you are going to leave it at home when fishing, why have it?
As for the gold chain, so what? Sounds like they were sticking out like a sore thumb anyway. Two clean, white fishermen in a neighborhood like that- I wouldn't doubt they saw him get out of his car, and it's probably not something like my '88 ford wagon- they knew he had money, that he had something to steal.
As for the expensive fishing tackle, if you are going to leave it at home when fishing, why have it?
As for the gold chain, so what? Sounds like they were sticking out like a sore thumb anyway. Two clean, white fishermen in a neighborhood like that- I wouldn't doubt they saw him get out of his car, and it's probably not something like my '88 ford wagon- they knew he had money, that he had something to steal.
David, You scolded me for wearing the chain as it is an attractant to bad guys.......and I agree. My point has been that your Rolex is just as attracting. While you can control the times and places you wear it to reduce its negative effect on your safety, it is still a negative effect on your safety. I would expect someone so thoughtful and thorough as yourself to never bring unwanted negative attention to themselves needlessly.
Your business luncheon would definitely offer less chance of attracting a bad guy while wearing your rolex but it only takes one bad guy. I feel it is hypocritical to say don't do this because it increases danger and then you do it also.
It seems that you have justified the use of your "bling" as okay because you choose the time and place to wear it. I promise you that it is attracting attention each and every time you put it on.......BOTH GOOD AND BAD ATTENTION.....I hope you understand that.
Your business luncheon would definitely offer less chance of attracting a bad guy while wearing your rolex but it only takes one bad guy. I feel it is hypocritical to say don't do this because it increases danger and then you do it also.
It seems that you have justified the use of your "bling" as okay because you choose the time and place to wear it. I promise you that it is attracting attention each and every time you put it on.......BOTH GOOD AND BAD ATTENTION.....I hope you understand that.