Tasered to death?

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pitz96

New member
Did anyone here see the you-tube video of the Polish man tasered to death by Canadian cops at an airport in Vancouver? My computer isn't capable of video viewing (too slow), so I didn't watch it, but read the news story. The guy was waiting for his mother to meet him for hours, having gone to the wrong place in the airport. He got frustrated and ticked-off, eventually tossing a chair at a window. Several police arrived, and immediately tasered him with 50,000 volts for 10 minutes, during which he was screaming in pain and thrashing around, then died. It was all caught on camera by a bystander.

Isn't there some less lethal way to subdue someone who is not really threatening anyone but is obviously upset and needs to be cooled down?
 
I think the jury is still out on whether it was the taser, the physical treatment afterwards, or a combination thereof, and what role his physical state (agitated, to say the least) played as well.

In other words, saying "the taser killed him" may not be entirely accurate.

Note: in the video linked below you will essentially be watching somebody die. So if you have tender sensibilities or whatever, you've been warned.

Video and accompanying article for anybody who wants at least a little more info.

Overall I'd say both the police and the airport/immigration people screwed up by the numbers. He was held in that room for like 10 hours, while for most of that time his mother (who was there to pick him up) was elsewhere in the airport apparently being told he wasn't there or some such. So not only did they not bother to get a translator there by that time, but they failed to unite him with what would have been a very effective translator that they already had in the building.

As far as when the police showed up, it seems like they made little effort to either properly assess the situation before confronting him (for instance, they tried to start off talking to him in English, though he spoke none, which could have been ascertained by talking to the airport security guys standing right there for like a second) and, at least in my layperson's opinion, rapidly escalated the confrontation by surrounding him with an aggressive posture and then moving to physical force.

Yes, the guy had been violent before they showed up (throwing chairs at the wall). No, I'm not even positive the use of the taser, at the point it was used, was in any way unjustified. But I think poor choices were made at several levels, including by these four cops, that led to the situation reaching that point.

I could go into more (for instance, did anybody else notice no attempt whatsoever at CPR?) as I've discussed this pretty thoroughly with others. It's a pretty messed up situation. I'll let you guys go for a while, then jump back in if the thread survives (since it's not an American incident...happened in Vancouver, involving the RCMP).
 
Isn't there some less lethal way to subdue someone who is not really threatening anyone but is obviously upset and needs to be cooled down?
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Yes, the cop saying
"Calm down sir or I will tase you"
If the person really is simply upset and not a threat to anyone he will have the presence of mind to calm down
Or they could just resort back to sticks and choke holds
 
They all speak Taser Pointed at You

General rule of thumb I learned from my international travels
Anything a cop says in any country translates to
Shut up, calm down and put your hands behind your head

I haven't been tased, beaten or shot in four countries so far using this easily adhered to program
 
well the polish man who died will get a white heart medal and will be a hero throughout the world and the police who tasered him will be hanged on a high rope or shot by 10 men from the US and Swiss.
 
General rule of thumb I learned from my international travels
Anything a cop says in any country translates to
Shut up, calm down and put your hands behind your head
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I agree, but after ten hours in an airport I might get a little nutty. Tasers are good tools, but not a replacement for common sense.
 
Tasers are good tools, but not a replacement for common sense.
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Then our hero should have used good sense
I have spent ten hours in an airport without feeling the need to start throwing chairs through windows
I have no way of knowing for sure but I think I can safely assume that that basic level of common courtesy is what has kept me from being tased to date

In real life actions have real consequences, and blaming others for your stupidity is rarely going to work out the way you expect it to
 
In the last few years Taser deaths have abound! LEO treat it like a toy and it kills! Sorry LEO type, it's the truth. It stops Body Functions, It can Kill anyone with a Heart Apparatus in there chest. It Kills people with unknown heart problems! It kills people with other medical problems! Hell it can kill anyone ! Hell it can KILL anyone hit Numerous times Buy Exited and Wigged out LEO!

Hell , they are selling them to House Wifes! Next time one open her truck door into my Van and I yeal at her , Am I going to get Tased?
 
But yet you still miss many important points in the article that YOU linked to
He appears to turn and move away from officers, putting up his hands in frustration. He appears to pick up a stapler on a counter
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Why would he pick up a stapler?
Perhaps if we consider his actions in the previous moments, like throwing chairs at windows and ripping computer screens off of walls, it wouldn't be so hard to figure out that he was looking for improvised weapons, either that or he wanted to try to attach the computer back up on the wall.
The camera man can clearly be heard saying "He's still fighting them" so that earned him a second jolt
The video shows much more than a simple chair tossing and much less than ten minutes of tasering

It doesn't take a lot of common sense to know that you don't throw things at cops or pick stuff up to throw at cops, they might tase you

I have been jerked around in Vietnam and Singapore for hours and not once did I even consider throwing things around the station house or airport
I just considered it to be bad guest behavior, they didn't even have tasers at that time
 
Why would he pick up a stapler?
Perhaps if we consider his actions in the previous moments, like throwing chairs at windows and ripping computer screens off of walls, it wouldn't be so hard to figure out that he was looking for improvised weapons, either that or he wanted to try to attach the computer back up on the wall.
The camera man can clearly be heard saying "He's still fighting them" so that earned him a second jolt
The video shows much more than a simple chair tossing and much less than ten minutes of tasering
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The fact that he may have picked up a stapler is part of the reason I'm willing to accept that the first use of the taser was justified. I still think that both airport security, whoever had him sitting in there that long without a translator, and the police all made mistakes before it came to that point. Also, there's the fact that the guy ended up dead, yet I didn't see anything he did that was particularly worthy of the death penalty. There's the fact that the cops don't seem to make even a passing attempt at CPR (then again, I don't know that the RCMP are trained in that...but I'd be surprised if they weren't). Among other things.

Basically, I'm not taking a black-or-white position here.

Really the main reason I was annoyed is that by linking that youtube video and claiming it showed "more to the story" you suggested to me that you hadn't bothered to click the other two links provided in the second freakin' post (not like it was buried in a thread 10 pages long) before chiming in on the subject.

EDIT: That, and it suggests that you may have not even bothered to read the second post before posting in the thread, or you would have known the video had already been linked. And at the point that you first posted, the thread was only four posts long.
 
Really the main reason I was annoyed is that by linking that youtube video and claiming it showed "more to the story" you suggested to me that you hadn't bothered to click the other two links provided in the second freakin' post (not like it was buried in a thread 10 pages long) before chiming in on the subject
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Why would you get so upset about that
It looks like you may not have watched it yourself

So not only did they not bother to get a translator there by that time,
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The video clearly shows security repeatedly calling for a translator but none could be found
but they failed to unite him with what would have been a very effective translator that they already had in the building.
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Was he able to communicate to them who and where that person was?
As far as when the police showed up, it seems like they made little effort to either properly assess the situation before confronting him (for instance, they tried to start off talking to him in English, though he spoke none, )
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It is pure conjecture on your part that they attempt to speak to him in English, the video does not pick up the audio at that point, they nay very well have attempted to speak to him in Russian.
Given his obvious irrational state that would certainly have pissed him off.

which could have been ascertained by talking to the airport security guys standing right there for like a second
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The video clearly shows the police getting the information that he speaks no English, don't know how you could have missed that
at least in my layperson's opinion, rapidly escalated the confrontation by surrounding him with an aggressive posture and then moving to physical force
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.The video clearly shows that they assumed the aggressive posture of surrounding him after he threw up his hands in disgust and walked away from them
Yes, the guy had been violent before they showed up
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The video clearly shows him assuming a violent posture after they got there
for instance, did anybody else notice no attempt whatsoever at CPR?
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Was his heart still beating at that time and was he still breathing but unconscious, the video does not in any way make that clear
CPR at the wrong time will kill a person

And even after you get offended that I did not acknowledge your contribution
The fact that he may have picked up a stapler is part of the reason I'm willing to accept that the first use of the taser was justified
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The cameraman is clearly heard saying "He's still trying to fight them off" which would warrant the second tase
yet I didn't see anything he did that was particularly worthy of the death penalty
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No where in the video or the accompanying article did I see any mention of a death sentence being passed down or imposed
Your statement seems to imply that the cops deliberately set out to kill this man
There is nothing to suggest this and not much to suggest that they behaved indifferently or irresponsibly.

There is no mandate that an airport have a translator on duty to cover any and all possible languages and it can be heard loud and clear that a Russian translator was erroneously being called for
We don't know why this guy was being held, but we do know that it involved processing
I have been through immigration processing and it is a frustrating tedious process, but I never saw anybody act like this idiot did

Bottom line
His actions caused the police reaction
It is sad that he died but he started the trouble not the airport or the police

Edit to add:
If my reposting a link to the video had gotten you to actually watch it, it would have been a good thing
 
Sigh, the "Tasers are deadly" debate again. One more time:

Tasers are a less lethal device that enables officers to disable subjects without having to move to more damaging levels of force. They work by using an electric impulse equal to about 0.5 joules of electricity per pulse. This amount of power is not sufficient to stop even a damaged heart, but does work to block sensory and nerve impulses to the skeletal muscles.

A manual defibrillator, by comparison, shocks adults at a minimum of 50 joules (for what is called cardioversion- a precisely synchronized shock) or 100 joules (an unsynchronized shock). The heart, having a property known as automaticity, and coupled with the fact that it is deep in the chest, is not affected by the shocks. It is far more likely that the subject is injured by the physical exertion and drug use that frequently accompanies taser related deaths.

We received training on these devices when they were issued to the local police. We were tased, as is every police officer who carries one. Not one instance of dysrhythmia has been noted in any of our trials and training.

If a case is to be made that tasers are more dangerous than other methods, a study comparing in custody deaths would have to be conducted. One set noting the number of in custody deaths without taser use, and one with taser use. The fact is, suspects died in custody before tasers were ever used. The fact that a prisoner died after being tased does not mean that he would have lived had he not been tased.
 
Why would you get so upset about that
It looks like you may not have watched it yourself
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Oh, this'll be good.

The video clearly shows security repeatedly calling for a translator but none could be found
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Indeed it does, and having watched the video I knew that. However, they'd had ten hours to find one, and for much of that time had his mother (who, presumably, speaks the same language and, due to Canada's immigration requirements, likely English and/or French...and could thus perform better than no translator and would likely hvae been willing to hang around for free) was at the airport as well.

Alternately, you may or may not be aware, but there are phone translation services as well. You dial them up, tell them what language, and they provide a translator. This with a cellphone on speaker would also have been better than nothing.

It might have been a good idea to have some kind of translation functionality ready before interacting with him, even if it took a couple minutes. Since at least to me it didn't seem like he was an immediate threat to anybody by the time they showed up.

Was he able to communicate to them who and where that person was?
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No, but she was probably able to communicate who he was. Given hours to find him, they should have been able to.

It is pure conjecture on your part that they attempt to speak to him in English, the video does not pick up the audio at that point, they nay very well have attempted to speak to him in Russian.
Given his obvious irrational state that would certainly have pissed him off.
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Actually, having seen the video, I know that initially they did try to talk to him in English. At which point the two airport security guys (in yellow) tell the officers that he speaks no English. The audio was pretty clear at this point.

The video clearly shows the police getting the information that he speaks no English, don't know how you could have missed that
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Having watched the video, I did see that. See above. My point is that they spent exactly zero seconds on the scene figuring out what was going on, or they'd have known he didn't speak English.

Was his heart still beating at that time and was he still breathing but unconscious, the video does not in any way make that clear
CPR at the wrong time will kill a person
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Ah, one good point in an entire post full of crap. Thanks. I hadn't thought of that.

The cameraman is clearly heard saying "He's still trying to fight them off" which would warrant the second tase
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Because the cameraman can't be wrong. The video isn't particularly clear at this point (the view is obscured by the cops).

Bottom line
His actions caused the police reaction
It is sad that he died but he started the trouble not the airport or the police
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Just because his actions caused the reaction doesn't imply that the reaction was appropriate.

Edit to add:
If my reposting a link to the video had gotten you to actually watch it, it would have been a good thing
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QFT.


Also, good points divemedic. As I said in my first post here, it's not necessarily clear that the taser killed him. It may have contributed. Maybe. But even so, tasers are still generally safer than whatever other method would be likely to be used in their place.
 
Ah, one good point in an entire post full of crap. Thanks. I hadn't thought of that.
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This coming from someone who has posted nothing but emotion driven drivel
but of course you didn't think of it because you want to blame the police instead of the person who initiated the confrontation

My point is that they spent exactly zero seconds on the scene figuring out what was going on, or they'd have known he didn't speak English.
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Watch the video again
Security tell the police he speaks no English before they go into the room
Where doe this zero seconds crap come from
Because the cameraman can't be wrong. The video isn't particularly clear at this point (the view is obscured by the cops).
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You who has spent this whole thread offering your second hand expertise and opinions of how the police should have behaved now question the first hand observations of an eye witness?
I guess we should just accept your extrapolated version and dismiss his narration of the events in real time now?
Just because his actions caused the reaction doesn't imply that the reaction was appropriate.
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And just because your delicate sensibilities are offended does not mean that they were inappropriate.

He wanted attention, he got attention

Robi nie tase mnie brat !
 
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